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Topic:  Before you make any "political" statements...
Afyon
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
April 2, 2004 7:42:33 AM    View the profile of Afyon 
Interresting facts about Canadian religion

41% Catholic
20% other Christian religions
20% aetheist

20,000 Jedi Knights
 
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ASL/GSG_Afyon/Dark Dragoon Squad/2PLT/1COM/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE/[LoC][IH][CoH][SoA]
Shazam
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
April 2, 2004 3:43:16 PM    View the profile of Shazam 
All hell bent on world domination...
 
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*Flash Was Here...*
My Real Bebop: (=A=)
Sniping101
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
April 3, 2004 6:25:27 PM    View the profile of Sniping101 
first and foremost, "In God We Trust" has become a tradition, same a celebrating birthdays (ya, i know not every one does) or saying hello and goodbye (or whathave you) this isnt something we need to change, hell i dont read my money, do you? every time you pull out a $20 bill to pay for gas do you read it? do you even pay attention to anything other than the numbers? i dont, i just look at the number or the face and go " hmm. . .yup this is a twenty" i mean realy is it neccesary to create such a hastle over s little bit of writing on your money that no one even looks at? and the pledge, i never even said it when i went to school, hell i never even stood up, i just sat in my desk and tried to make the most noise doodleing, but thats just because i dont believe in pledging allegaince to a country i have almost zero support for. dont like the pledge? dont say it, when the teacher says you have to, give them a blank look, always worked great for me, after awhile the teacher just stoped asking.

and what is laws but limiting the freedoms of others? thats why i dont like laws, i put up with them as long as they parralel my beliefs enough im not breaking the law going into a knife shop.

to be continued. . .
 
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Formaly the Perpetual PFC
TRP/FTC/SGT Sniping101/CrazyRAIDERS/1PLT/1COM/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE [LoR][IH][BoA]
"As long as their is Space, Im going to stare off into it"-Garfield
I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle, here is my spout. When I see an ARC all short and stout, BOOM!  He flies through the hall and out. -anonymous
blah909
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
April 3, 2004 7:46:05 PM    View the profile of blah909 
i agree with you about not likeing laws.
but the whole "in god we trust" thing is directly contrary to the consitiution. the founding fathers had the good sense to ban all religon in government, whatsoever. you start putting the tiniest thing in, and something will go screwy.
when religon and government get together, we get something people like to call theology. which is evil in my view.

BUT THAT'S JUST MY OPINION, HOW ABOUT YOURS????
 
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blah909/Crewman in Kaph Squadron
"Badge? I don't have to show you no stinkin badge!"
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Shazam
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
April 4, 2004 5:24:27 AM    View the profile of Shazam 
    Several people have already brought up the fact that it was NOT... In fact made up by the founding fathers...  Or atleast this is what I've been told.  Something about adding because of Communist or something.  That seem's like a real rumor to me, but since theres more than one person saying it, I'll sure as hell beleive it...
 
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*Flash Was Here...*
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chipmunk man
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
April 4, 2004 6:37:32 PM    View the profile of chipmunk man 
      Okay, I have a few things to point out. Yes, it is a historical fact that "Under God" was added in the 1950's in order to distinguish American values from those of the Soviet Union.

      No, the Founding Fathers did NOT ban all religion in American government. That is a common misconception. When President Washington was sworn into office, he placed his hand on a Bible and asked God to help him carry out his duties. They believed religion was extremely important. What they banned was state-sponsered religion, which means the government cannot tell you what religion you have to belong to. I think I already covered this in another post, but people must not have read it. I ask that you go back and reread my statements about the problems that arose under Queen Mary of England, because that is what the constitution outlaws.
 
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"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstien

"People like you are the reason people like me take medication." -Cool T-shirt

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Shazam
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
April 4, 2004 6:50:27 PM    View the profile of Shazam 
    Intriguing how we're saying that we need seperation of religion and state...  But yet, we swear our presidents in using the bible.  Do you wish to further this my good man?
 
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*Flash Was Here...*
My Real Bebop: (=A=)
chipmunk man
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
April 4, 2004 6:57:58 PM    View the profile of chipmunk man 
      I don't think I really need to further it, religion was not banned but rather considered essential by the founding fathers. What was banned was telling people what they have to believe. I can see how it might offend some people to have references to God on money, but it's impossible to please everyone. At this point I feel things like "In God We Trust" need to stay on the money out of respect for our heritage. It's been there so long, that I see no reason to get rid of it.


 
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"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstien

"People like you are the reason people like me take medication." -Cool T-shirt

FL/PO2 Chipmunk Man/Kaph 3-1/Phoenix/mSSD Atrus/DEF/VEN/VE/(=A=)[LoC][MC:1]
[This message has been edited by chipmunk man (edited April 4, 2004 7:02:57 PM)]
Kuroishi
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
April 5, 2004 12:56:04 AM    View the profile of Kuroishi 
So far since I made my last post there really hasn't been too much said that disagrees with the point I was trying to make.

There are so few polythiests and aethiests comparied to monothiestic believers that they can make plenty of noise but really all they are doing is taking seperation of church and state too literaly.

Yes what we believe in will shape the laws of our country.

Yes it is impossible to please everyone.

I'd leave the money but change the pledge back to it's original form.


 
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Kuroishi Wraith VEA
Daishi Raptor VEN
Assistant Writer Why Project Copyright Infringment
Ich bin hessliche amerikaner.
Nehmen mir zu dein frauen von vernunftig preis tugendhafte.
"And the sound of many heads hitting many solid objects was heard throughout the land." me
Shazam
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
April 5, 2004 4:53:55 AM    View the profile of Shazam 
Indeed...
 
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*Flash Was Here...*
My Real Bebop: (=A=)
Sniping101
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
April 5, 2004 10:19:25 PM    View the profile of Sniping101 
or dont mes with the pleadge sence this is the one everybody can remember and people who dont like it can just not say it, i dont say it not for that reason but because i dont want to swear allegiance to this country, but not saying it is perfectly acceptable. realy i dont care if it was changed, i wouldnt even vote on it (if i could vote anyway)
 
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Formaly the Perpetual PFC
TRP/FTC/SGT Sniping101/CrazyRAIDERS/1PLT/1COM/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE [LoR][IH][BoA]
"As long as their is Space, Im going to stare off into it"-Garfield
I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle, here is my spout. When I see an ARC all short and stout, BOOM!  He flies through the hall and out. -anonymous
Shazam
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
April 6, 2004 9:39:29 AM    View the profile of Shazam 
Not a real country man are ya snipes?

*Shrug...*
 
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*Flash Was Here...*
My Real Bebop: (=A=)
Sniping101
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
April 6, 2004 5:52:38 PM    View the profile of Sniping101 
*Shrugs*

no, not realy.
 
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The Comnet Hermit
TRP/FTC/SGT Sniping101/CrazyRAIDERS/1PLT/1COM/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE [LoR][IH][BoA]
"As long as their is Space, Im going to stare off into it"-Garfield
I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle, here is my spout. When I see an ARC all short and stout, BOOM!  He flies through the hall and out. -anonymous
JMac
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
April 7, 2004 6:12:48 AM    View the profile of JMac 
Why is this topic re-opened?  I don't have time to post, that is the whole reason I'm in reserves right now, but now that I have seen it I have to post and neglect my schoolwork.
/me mutters darkly under his breath

Seperation of Church and State is no-where in the constitution.  Believe me, I've looked through it many times.  It is something that is often used in deciding constitutionality, but the fact is it isn't in the constitution.  What is in there is this...

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

All this means is that we can't have a state sponsored religion, and we can't stop men from worshiping who they want.  All the lawsuits about seperation of church and state have no constitutional grounds, but thanks to liberal judges that like to legislate from the bench, they have been given credibility.
 
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LCM_ JMac/(=A=)(=SA=)(=MA)(=FOCE=)(MC1)(VC)

Viva el gato mojado!!!!

As a great man once said, here, is where you are.
Shazam
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
April 7, 2004 12:54:08 AM    View the profile of Shazam 
Any takers?  This is turning into less of a debate lately...  We should realy delete this entire thing... 
 
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*Flash Was Here...*
My Real Bebop: (=A=)
chipmunk man
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
April 7, 2004 9:16:03 PM    View the profile of chipmunk man 
Naaargh! No! Don't delete the thread!

 
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"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstien

"People like you are the reason people like me take medication." -Cool T-shirt

FL/PO2 Chipmunk Man/Kaph 3-1/Phoenix/mSSD Atrus/DEF/VEN/VE/(=A=)[LoC][MC:1]
Argon Viper
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
April 8, 2004 9:10:28 AM    View the profile of Argon Viper 
Yeah, I'm with Munk, I think it's good to have someplace where we can engage in a free interchange of ideas (amazingly enough, this hasn't degenerated into a slugging match in 8 pages  ).

Anyways, I'm gonna state my position as a traditionalist here on the issue.  The swearing in on the bible is important, but only for a Christian president.  If the president was Jewish, Muslim, or Hindu, you'd swear him in on the Torah, the Qur'an, or the Vedas.  It's just a way of having him swear in on something he truly believes in.  Me?  I'd probably swear in on something by Richard Bach or Daniel Quinn...

Anyways, that would also explain my stance on the money/pledge issue.  The pledge was never originally made with the "under God" phrase in it, therefore I think it should be restored.  The money has always been printed with "In God We Trust" ever since real greenbacks started coming out, so I have no real problem with it.

Also, it's a good thing to note that only about half of the founding fathers were actually Christian, and mostly the less prominent ones.  The more noticable ones like Thomas Jefferson and James Madison were what they called "humanists".  They believed that God had created us, but that it was up to us to figure our way around this life.

Anyways, that's my two cents for this time, enjoy 
 
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Argon Viper
Sergeant Major/Senior Writer, VE Today
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"History is on the move, those who cannot keep up will watch from a distance, and those who get in our way will not watch at all" - Grand Admiral Thrawn
"Condemnation does not liberate, it oppresses" - Carl G Jung
Shazam
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
April 8, 2004 12:53:40 AM    View the profile of Shazam 
    I must say, at times, people have gotten into so real trouble on this thread though.  It's really cooled down lately.  I've only started posting on this thread, just lately.  I posted a bit earlier, but some people were gettin real pissed' about what others had to say.  It made me kind of sick to read, but if it happens again, someone should seriously consider deleting the thread.  But like I said, it seems to be going pretty okay right now.
 
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Sniping101
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
April 10, 2004 9:50:48 PM    View the profile of Sniping101 
dont delete the thread, just lock it, i personaly did about the same as Shazam, except i was the one gettin ticked, but more often the one doing the annoying, i've cooled down alot and will stop if anyone i start to go into the slugfest frenzy i was getting into last time wich was like page 2
 
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The Comnet Hermit
TRP/FTC/SGT Sniping101/CrazyRAIDERS/1PLT/1COM/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE [LoR][IH][BoA]
"As long as their is Space, Im going to stare off into it"-Garfield
I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle, here is my spout. When I see an ARC all short and stout, BOOM!  He flies through the hall and out. -anonymous
Shazam
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
April 13, 2004 9:44:52 AM    View the profile of Shazam 
I beleive this to be the ultimate "wandering thread...'  I say go on talking about what you want to talk about. 
 
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*Flash Was Here...*
My Real Bebop: (=A=)
Afyon
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
April 14, 2004 5:47:32 PM    View the profile of Afyon 
Ya...no sense shutting down the debate

Some good discussions have been had on here and we should let them continue
 
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ASL/GSG_Afyon/Dark Dragoon Squad/2PLT/1COM/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE/[LoC][IH][CoH][SoA]
Sniping101
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
April 14, 2004 5:54:30 PM    View the profile of Sniping101 
heh heh i just ment there was more sence in locking it than deleting it, personaly both annoy me especialy when talon decides to lock the interesting ones

/me goes off and pouts,
 
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The Comnet Hermit
TRP/FTC/SGT Sniping101/CrazyRAIDERS/1PLT/1COM/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE [LoR][IH][BoA]
"As long as their is Space, Im going to stare off into it"-Garfield
I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle, here is my spout. When I see an ARC all short and stout, BOOM!  He flies through the hall and out. -anonymous
Shazam
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
April 15, 2004 5:13:13 AM    View the profile of Shazam 
Actually, we'd better stop saying that or he'll do something about it, lol.
 
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*Flash Was Here...*
My Real Bebop: (=A=)
Argon Viper
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
April 15, 2004 9:42:37 PM    View the profile of Argon Viper 
Wow, it's been a week since I last posted and no one's replied to it, I'm impressed 

And yeah, I say keep it up, wandering is good for you 
 
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Argon Viper
Sergeant Major/Senior Writer, VE Today
IW COL Argon Viper{ret}
Fallen Angel and Proud of It!
"History is on the move, those who cannot keep up will watch from a distance, and those who get in our way will not watch at all" - Grand Admiral Thrawn
"Condemnation does not liberate, it oppresses" - Carl G Jung
chipmunk man
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
April 16, 2004 6:17:19 AM    View the profile of chipmunk man 
Woah, woah, wait a minute! I just realized that Argon AGREED with me! AAAAH! Satan is throwing snowballs!
 
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"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstien

"People like you are the reason people like me take medication." -Cool T-shirt

FL/PO2 Chipmunk Man/Kaph 3-1/Phoenix/mSSD Atrus/DEF/VEN/VE/(=A=)[LoC][MC:1]
Shazam
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
April 16, 2004 2:56:12 PM    View the profile of Shazam 
Chip' number of post is 7/11!!  I'm making a wish!  Now... If the next time I check, and it's not an odd number...  MY WISH WILL COME TRUE!!!

God I'm a dork...
 
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*Flash Was Here...*
My Real Bebop: (=A=)
chipmunk man
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
April 19, 2004 5:42:21 AM    View the profile of chipmunk man 
?
 
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"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstien

"People like you are the reason people like me take medication." -Cool T-shirt

FL/PO2 Chipmunk Man/Kaph 3-1/Phoenix/mSSD Atrus/DEF/VEN/VE/(=A=)[LoC][MC:1]
JMac
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
April 19, 2004 5:52:54 AM    View the profile of JMac 
Yeah, you are.
 
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LCM_ JMac/(=A=)(=SA=)(=MA)(=FOCE=)(MC1)(VC)

Viva el gato mojado!!!!

As a great man once said, here, is where you are.
Shazam
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
April 19, 2004 3:12:20 PM    View the profile of Shazam 
Well...  You know, there are worse things...  Like referring to yourself as Lt. Commander of a Navy division on the internet...


*Checks number

Odd!  Dammit.  I really wanted that german shepard, the neighbor kids are getting a bit out of hand...
 
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*Flash Was Here...*
My Real Bebop: (=A=)
[This message has been edited by Shazam (edited April 19, 2004 3:17:11 PM)]
Sniping101
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
April 19, 2004 9:11:51 PM    View the profile of Sniping101 
lol, use bug bomb, it works real well.
 
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The Comnet Hermit
TRP/FTC/SGT Sniping101/CrazyRAIDERS/1PLT/1COM/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE [LoR][IH][BoA]
"As long as their is Space, Im going to stare off into it"-Garfield
I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle, here is my spout. When I see an ARC all short and stout, BOOM!  He flies through the hall and out. -anonymous
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