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Topic:  Before you make any "political" statements...
Sniping101
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
October 10, 2004 05:46:09 PM     View the profile of Sniping101 
nope, looked threw again, still no evidence, you saywe would never get invaded, but you have no way to prove we will never get invaded, you say he dosent flip-flop, but you cant prove that one either,
 
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Shazam
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
October 10, 2004 05:47:40 PM     View the profile of Shazam 
One:  Definition of flip-flopper, to stay un-decided, un-certain, and most certainly unsure...  That's my own definition...  Kerry fits that inage several times over.  You could say the same thing about Bush's emotions from time to time, but he atleast keeps to the same basis.  Although people 'proved' in a sense that we should not have gone into Irak, he still believes it was the right one.  Thus, he has unfaultered, and in my opinion is not a flip-flopper!  ARGUE WITH ME!  I NEED A RUSH!
 
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Sniping101
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
October 10, 2004 05:50:21 PM     View the profile of Sniping101 
lol, all i can do is agree.
 
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"As long as their is Space, Im going to stare off into it"-Garfield
I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle, here is my spout. When I see an ARC all short and stout, BOOM! I kiss him and love him all the night out! - Modified by Me, original by -anonymous

Shazam
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
October 11, 2004 01:50:52 AM     View the profile of Shazam 
WHERES REMA! *Pumps volume on his 'Rush' Cd
 
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chipmunk man
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
October 11, 2004 02:47:22 AM     View the profile of chipmunk man 
*sigh* I spend a weekend playing Union soldier and everyone goes nuts. Ah, where to start?

I think I'll respond to the gentleman from the FES first. Yes, I am an active member of the College Republicans Club. So what? How does being a member of a party automatically disqualify me from understanding how things work? I have listened to both sides, watched the debates, read the newspapers, etc. From all that I have decided that I believe John Kerry to be a dangerous mistake, and that Bush is the better of the two by a long shot. I can point to things such as handling under pressure, personal character and beliefs, and plans for the country. Do not call me an uniformed imbecile simply because I'm a member of a club.

I have a friend who is about to be shipped to Afghanistan. Yes, there is a chance he may killed, and that I will never see him again. Am I worried? Yes. Do I pray for him? Yes. Do I automatically hate Bush because he's trying to make the world safer for my future children? No. Remember that in the first debate, Kerry said that he is going to do THE SAME THING IN NORTH KOREA!

Rema, actually WATCH a debate. You WILL see Kerry flip-flop! He says one thing, then turns around and contradicts it 10 minutes later! It is not some made up thing; he does it repeadedly! Next time you want to make a claim like that, try showing some evidence. All I have to do is point to the debates and the Senete records.

I understand that many people believe very stongly that John Kerry is the better man. If you can find a way to prove that to me, you have my vote. All I'm asking for are some actual FACTS, which is pretty much the one thing that has been missing. Why do I think that is so? All the facts are against Kerry.

Matok, you have my condolences. I have lost family members and friends very suddenly in the past, though not in war. You mentioned something about three family members being killed, I admit that I don't have any concept of how that must feel. You and they are in my prayers.



 
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[This message has been edited by chipmunk man (edited October 11, 2004 02:51:23 AM )]
Matok
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
October 11, 2004 06:16:15 AM     View the profile of Matok 
First, thank you Chip. Yes I had three family members die in Iraq, as well as four friends of mine that I went to high school with, and two cousins currently in the hospital with one in critical condition for the last two weeks from bullet wounds along the back of his head from the people that "would welcome us with open arms". All of those soldiers did not believe in this war, though the three funeral speeches were nicely full of patriotism that even made the parents walk out of the session.

Now second, I see I need to explain some things to you. For my short and recent comments here I was referring to your comments of "How does he expect to build the US's reputation, when he insults our allies?" I said you are ill-informed on that comment. I also ask for you to point out where I used 'uniformed imbecile' before attempting to quote me. Seriously I am an asshole when it comes to quotes. If you decide quote me you better seriously quote me to the letter. What I stated is that you need to realize that Bush insulted our allies more then Kerry has ever. I am calling into question how you worded that because that is a highly Republican view.

The general Republican view is "Kerry is insulting our allies by saying we are going to war alone". Going to war and snubbing your allies (not to mention spying on allies to find out their point of view on the war, lying to allies, harassing political figures and causing stupid irrational behavior (Freedom Fries, etc), insulting historical events, causing unneeded diplomatic tensions, releasing hawks on opposing war allies) and then comparing it to Kerry saying we went to war alone is so off balance its not even funny. Yeah, its just "a little" worse then Kerry's one wording phrase. Just keep that in mind before bashing Kerry on comments about allies as Bush has already tossed our allies the finger a few too many times in the last few years.

The Republican administration has NO room to talk when it comes to allies. Bush is considered the president that has destroyed our international credibility and hurt friendships. His government has insulted allies (insulted Germany comparing it to its WW2 times), laughed when allied names come into play when they didn't participate in Iraq even though they are helping in Afghanistan (Canada which previously had the second largest amount of troops in Afghanistan for over a year during the initial invasion. A US pilot even dropped a bomb on a platoon of them by mistake...) and NOT apologizing for blatantly lying to the international community (WMD Programs). And believe me... ask around the world to those who keep informed with politics and they will tell you negative comments on Bush or even the United States, especially in Britain and Australia where people highly dislike their own government for going to war in Iraq. The way the Republican government has insulted allies is beyond belief. I am sorry, but your allies insult comment doesn't hold water... or anything else for that matter. If you think that is the way the United States should be, then I am both embarrassed and sickened to be born from a country that has treated its friends the way they have in the last three years.

That is far more then I wanted to say on this topic so that will be my last addition.
 
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[This message has been edited by Matok (edited October 11, 2004 06:17:49 AM )]
JMac
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
October 11, 2004 06:41:18 AM     View the profile of JMac 
Wow, this blew up pretty well.  I'm with you Chip, you leave for a weekend and all hell breaks loose.

We went to war with out allies.  Let me name them for you....
Afghanistan, Albania, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bulgaria, Colombia, the Czech Republic, Denmark, El Salvador, Eritrea, Estonia, Ethiopia, Georgia, Hungary, Italy, Japan, South Korea, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, the Netherlands, Nicaragua, the Philippines, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Spain, Turkey, United Kingdom and Uzbekistan.

We also have a few other nations that aren't a full part of the coalition but are still helping us out, like the UAE.  The people that we snubbed were the UN, and they don't like us all that much anyway.  And Kerry absolutely insulted them.  The words "coerced and the bribed" comes to mind.  And before you go about calling me a Republican, like that is some kind of crime, to degrade my credability, I am a registered independant.

Bush has done a great job, and I'm not just saying that because he put through a raise in my pay.  Iraq was necessary, without a doubt.  Our intelligence services said that they had WMDs, without a doubt they were trying to get them, and they were aiding terrorists.  If you want proof of any of this just ask, and I'll get you a large pile of documentation.  Bush has also done a great job with the economy.  We are pulling out of the recession that Clinton and 9/11 put us in, and going strong again.  I do not agree with all that he has done, but so far he has done a very good job. 

One final comment before I cease pontificating.  Please do not say that Hillary will be elected.  While I know that she is going to run sometime in the next few years, I really don't want to think about it.  The day that woman becomes my Commander in Chief is the day I start working on a discharge. 
 
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Rema
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
October 11, 2004 09:35:08 AM     View the profile of Rema 
You dont need evidence for the US getting invaded. Its common sense that it wont.
 
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chipmunk man
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
October 11, 2004 09:41:34 AM     View the profile of chipmunk man 
As long as we have one of the strongest armed forces in the world, I agree, we probably won't be invaded.

Matok, I did not quote you word for word, which is why I left out the quotation marks. It was the sense I got while reading your post that you meant to call me an idiot. If I was mistaken, I appologize.

In the last post, I mentioned the reenacting I did this weekend. (okay, I'm off topic here, so shoot me) That was awsome! There was this boyscout camporee with a focus on military mistory, and they asked me and my drummer friend to come help with the Union army stuff (we turned out to be the only infantry guys to show up). We got to drill the scouts and all, do some firing demos, etc. Late Saturday, the mayor of Lancaster City broke out his 12-pounder Napolean cannon and model 1877 gatling gun (no, it wasn't period, but it was at least similiar). First the artillary guys had some fun blowing up 55-gallon drums filed with water, with LIVE cannon fire! Then the WWII guys broke out their BAR's and 30-cal machine guns and started shredding pumpkins. While they were still firing, the artillary boys switched to the gatling and turned a pyramid of cinder blocks to dust. So I started in with my 1861 Springfield, and Travis was beating away on his drum. Then, we're still firing away when a WWII forward observation plane buzzed us 15 yards of the ground. I thought the thing was gonna fly staright into the WWII guys in their jeep (one 30-call was mounted to the jeep). It was just plain awsome.
 
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Explorer Post 1863 photos - - Explorer Post 1863 Main Site - - Co. D 62nd PA Volunteer Infantry

Co. E 30th PA Volunteer Infantry - - James Buchanan's Wheatland

"And I wouldn't trade ol' Leroy or my Chevrolet
For your Escapade or your freak parade,
I'm the only John Wayne left in this town!" -Big & Rich
[This message has been edited by chipmunk man (edited October 11, 2004 09:54:03 AM )]
Rema
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
October 11, 2004 09:52:54 AM     View the profile of Rema 
Exculding the British and Australians, everyone else that came to iraq had less than 1000 people. Many had less than 100 people. The United States sent in the majority of the troops. Its nice that all those countries supported us, but its not like they were very influential in the military aspect of the war.

And im not going to argue with you flip flopper people. Its pointless, im not going to change your mind. It will just be a waste of my time.
 
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"Only Trust your Allies as much as you can Predict your Enemies."
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JMac
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
October 11, 2004 10:05:02 AM     View the profile of JMac 
Flip Flopped On Trade With China

In 1991, Kerry Supported Most-Favored Trade Status For China. "Sen. John Kerry said yesterday that he is breaking party ranks to support most-favored-nation trade status for China & 'I think the president has some strong arguments about some of the assets of most-favored-nation status for China,' Kerry said." (John Aloysius Farrell, "Kerry Breaks Party Ranks To Back China Trade Status," The Boston Globe, 6/15/91)

In 2000, Kerry Voted In Favor Of Permanent Normal Trade Relations With China. (H.R. 4444, CQ Vote #251: Passed 83-15: R 46-8; D 37-7, 9/19/00, Kerry Voted Yea)

Now Kerry Criticizes The Bush Administration For Trading With China. "Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry said on Monday Americans workers were paying the price for President Bush's weak stance on trade with China and other countries. & On the bus tour, Kerry singled out the Bush administration's handling of trade with China and said that country was manipulating its currency." (Caren Bohan, "Kerry Pledges Aggressive Trade Stance," Reuters, 4/26/04)



Flip-Flopped On Iraq War

Kerry Voted For Authorization To Use Force In Iraq. (H.J. Res. 114, CQ Vote #237: Passed 77-23: R 48-1; D 29-21; I 0-1, 10/11/02, Kerry Voted Yea.)

In First Dem Debate, Kerry Strongly Supported President's Action In Iraq. KERRY: "George, I said at the time I would have preferred if we had given diplomacy a greater opportunity, but I think it was the right decision to disarm Saddam Hussein, and when the President made the decision, I supported him, and I support the fact that we did disarm him." (ABC News, Democrat Presidential Candidate Debate, Columbia, SC, 5/4/03)

Kerry Later Claimed He Voted "To Threaten" Use Of Force In Iraq. "I voted to threaten the use of force to make Saddam Hussein comply with the resolutions of the United Nations." (Sen. John Kerry, Remarks At Announcement Of Presidential Candidacy, Mount Pleasant, SC, 9/2/03)

Now, Kerry Says He Is Anti-War Candidate. CHRIS MATTHEWS: "Do you think you belong to that category of candidates who more or less are unhappy with this war, the way it's been fought, along with General Clark, along with Howard Dean and not necessarily in companionship politically on the issue of the war with people like Lieberman, Edwards and Gephardt? Are you one of the anti-war candidates?" KERRY: "I am -- Yes, in the sense that I don't believe the president took us to war as he should have, yes, absolutely." (MSNBC's "Hardball," 1/6/04)

Flip-Flopped On Eliminating Marriage Penalty For Middle Class

Kerry Said He Will Fight To Keep Tax Relief For Married Couples. "Howard Dean and Gephardt are going to put the marriage penalty back in place. So if you get married in America, we're going to charge you more taxes. I do not want to do that." (Fox News' "Special Report," 10/23/03)

Said Democrats Fought To End Marriage Penalty Tax. "We fought hard to get rid of the marriage penalty." (MSNBC's "News Live," 7/31/03)

But, In 1998, Kerry Voted Against Eliminating Marriage Penalty Relief For Married Taxpayers With Combined Incomes Less Than $50,000 Per Year, Saving Taxpayers $46 Billion Over 10 Years. (S. 1415, CQ Vote #154: Rejected 48-50: R 5-49; D 43-1, 6/10/98, Kerry Voted Yea)

Flip-Flopped On Patriot Act

Kerry Voted For Patriot Act. The Patriot Act was passed nearly unanimously by the Senate 98-1, and 357-66 in the House. (H.R. 3162, CQ Vote #313: Passed 98-1: R 49-0; D 48-1; I 1-0, 10/25/01, Kerry Voted Yea)

Kerry Used To Defend His Vote. "Most of [The Patriot Act] has to do with improving the transfer of information between CIA and FBI, and it has to do with things that really were quite necessary in the wake of what happened on September 11th." (Sen. John Kerry, Remarks At Town Hall Meeting, Manchester, NH, 8/6/03)

Now, Kerry Attacks Patriot Act. "We are a nation of laws and liberties, not of a knock in the night. So it is time to end the era of John Ashcroft. That starts with replacing the Patriot Act with a new law that protects our people and our liberties at the same time. I've been a District Attorney and I know that what law enforcement needs are real tools not restrictions on American's basic rights." (Sen. John Kerry, Remarks At Iowa State University, 12/1/03)

Kerry Took BOTH Sides On First Gulf War

Kerry Took BOTH Sides In First Gulf War In Separate Letters To Same Constituent. "Rather than take a side--albeit the one he thought was most expedient--Kerry actually stood on both sides of the first Gulf war, much like he did this time around. Consider this 'Notebook' item from TNR's March 25, 1991 issue, which ran under the headline 'Same Senator, Same Constituent': 'Thank you for contacting me to express your opposition ... to the early use of military force by the US against Iraq. I share your concerns. On January 11, I voted in favor of a resolution that would have insisted that economic sanctions be given more time to work and against a resolution giving the president the immediate authority to go to war.' --letter from Senator John Kerry to Wallace Carter of Newton Centre, Massachusetts, dated January 22 [1991] 'Thank you very much for contacting me to express your support for the actions of President Bush in response to the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. From the outset of the invasion, I have strongly and unequivocally supported President Bush's response to the crisis and the policy goals he has established with our military deployment in the Persian Gulf.' --Senator Kerry to Wallace Carter, January 31 [1991]" (Noam Scheiber, "Noam Scheiber's Daily Journal of Politics, The New Republic Online, 1/28/04)

Flip-Flopped On Gay Marriage Amendment

In 2002, Kerry Signed Letter "Urging" MA Legislature To Reject Constitutional Amendment Banning Gay Marriage. "We rarely comment on issues that are wholly within the jurisdiction of the General Court, but there are occasions when matters pending before you are of such significance to all residents of the Commonwealth that we think it appropriate for us to express our opinion. One such matter is the proposed Constitutional amendment that would prohibit or seriously inhibit any legal recognition whatsoever of same-sex relationships. We believe it would be a grave error for Massachusetts to enshrine in our Constitution a provision which would have such a negative effect on so many of our fellow residents. & We are therefore united in urging you to reject this Constitutional amendment and avoid stigmatizing so many of our fellow citizens who do not deserve to be treated in such a manner." (Sen. John Kerry, et al, Letter To Members Of The Massachusetts Legislature, 7/12/02)

Now, In 2004, Kerry Won't Rule Out Supporting Similar Amendment. "Asked if he would support a state constitutional amendment barring gay and lesbian marriages, Kerry didn't rule out the possibility. 'I'll have to see what language there is,' he said." (Susan Milligan, "Kerry Says GOP May Target Him On 'Wedge Issue,'" The Boston Globe, 2/6/04)

Flip-Flopped On Attacking President During Time Of War

In March 2003, Kerry Promised Not To Attack President When War Began. "Senator John F. Kerry of Massachusetts & said he will cease his complaints once the shooting starts. 'It's what you owe the troops,' said a statement from Kerry, a Navy veteran of the Vietnam War. 'I remember being one of those guys and reading news reports from home. If America is at war, I won't speak a word without measuring how it'll sound to the guys doing the fighting when they're listening to their radios in the desert.'" (Glen Johnson, "Democrats On The Stump Plot Their War Rhetoric," The Boston Globe, 3/11/03)

But Weeks Later, With Troops Just Miles From Baghdad, Kerry Broke His Pledge. "'What we need now is not just a regime change in Saddam Hussein and Iraq, but we need a regime change in the United States,' Kerry said in a speech at the Peterborough Town Library. Despite pledging two weeks ago to cool his criticism of the administration once war began, Kerry unleashed a barrage of criticism as US troops fought within 25 miles of Baghdad." (Glen Johnson, "Kerry Says Us Needs Its Own 'Regime Change,'" The Boston Globe, 4/3/03)

Flip-Flopped On Death Penalty For Terrorists

In 1996, Kerry Attacked Governor Bill Weld For Supporting Death Penalty For Terrorists. KERRY: "Your policy would amount to a terrorist protection policy. Mine would put them in jail." (1996 Massachusetts Senate Debate, 9/16/96)

In 1996, Kerry Said, "You Can Change Your Mind On Things, But Not On Life-And-Death Issues." (Timothy J. Connolly, "The 'Snoozer' Had Some Life," [Worcester, MA] Telegram & Gazette, 7/3/96)

But, In 2002, Kerry Said He Supported Death Penalty For Terrorists. KERRY: "The law of the land is the law of the land, but I have also said that I am for the death penalty for terrorists because terrorists have declared war on your country." (NBC's "Meet The Press," 12/1/02)

Flip-Flopped On No Child Left Behind

Kerry Voted For No Child Left Behind Act. (H.R. 1, CQ Vote #371: Adopted 87-10: R 44-3; D 43-6; I 0-1, 12/18/01, Kerry Voted Yea)

But Now Kerry Is Attacking No Child Left Behind As "Mockery." "Between now and the time I'm sworn in January 2005, I'm going to use every day to make this president accountable for making a mockery of the words 'No Child Left Behind.'" (Holly Ramer, "Kerry Wants To Make 'Environmental Justice' A Priority," The Associated Press, 4/22/03)

Kerry Trashed NCLB As 'Unfunded Mandate' With 'Laudable' Goals. "Kerry referred to [No Child Left Behind] as an 'unfunded mandate' with 'laudable' goals. 'Without the resources, education reform is a sham,' Kerry said. 'I can't wait to crisscross this country and hold this president accountable for making a mockery of the words "no child left behind."'" (Matt Leon, "Sen. Kerry In Tune With Educators," The [Quincy, MA] Patriot Ledger, 7/11/03)

Flip-Flopped On Affirmative Action

In 1992, Kerry Called Affirmative Action "Inherently Limited And Divisive." "[W]hile praising affirmative action as 'one kind of progress' that grew out of civil rights court battles, Kerry said the focus on a rights-based agenda has 'inadvertently driven most of our focus in this country not to the issue of what is happening to the kids who do not get touched by affirmative action, but & toward an inherently limited and divisive program which is called affirmative action.' That agenda is limited, he said, because it benefits segments of black and minority populations, but not all. And it is divisive because it creates a 'perception and a reality of reverse discrimination that has actually engendered racism.'" (Lynne Duke, "Senators Seek Serious Dialogue On Race," The Washington Post, 4/8/92)

In 2004, Kerry Denied Ever Having Called Affirmative Action "Divisive." CNN's KELLY WALLACE: "We caught up with the Senator, who said he never called affirmative action divisive, and accused Clark of playing politics." SEN. KERRY: "That's not what I said. I said there are people who believe that. And I said mend it, don't end it. He's trying to change what I said, but you can go read the quote. I said very clearly I have always voted for it. I've always supported it. I've never, ever condemned it. I did what Jim Clyburn did and what Bill Clinton did, which is mend it. And Jim Clyburn wouldn't be supporting it if it were otherwise. So let's not have any politics here. Let's keep the truth." (CNN's "Inside Politics," 1/30/04)

Flip-Flopped On Ethanol

Kerry Twice Voted Against Tax Breaks For Ethanol. (S. Con. Res. 18, CQ Vote #44: Rejected 48-52: R 11-32; D 37-20, 3/23/93, Kerry Voted Nay; S. Con. Res. 18, CQ Vote #68: Motion Agreed To 55-43: R 2-40; D 53-3, 3/24/93, Kerry Voted Yea)

Kerry Voted Against Ethanol Mandates. (H.R. 4624, CQ Vote #255: Motion Agreed To 51-50: R 19-25; D 31-25, 8/3/94, Kerry Voted Nay)

Kerry Voted Twice To Increase Liability On Ethanol, Making It Equal To Regular Gasoline. (S. 517, CQ Vote #87: Motion Agreed To 57-42: R 38-10; D 18-32; I 1-0, 4/25/02 Kerry Voted Nay; S. 14, CQ Vote #208: Rejected 38-57: R 9-40; D 28-17; I 1-0, 6/5/03, Kerry Voted Yea)

On The Campaign Trail, Though, Kerry Is For Ethanol. KERRY: "I'm for ethanol, and I think it's a very important partial ingredient of the overall mix of alternative and renewable fuels we ought to commit to." (MSNBC/DNC, Democrat Presidential Candidate Debate, Des Moines, IA, 11/24/03)

Flip-Flopped On Cuba Sanctions

Senator Kerry Has Long Voted Against Stronger Cuba Sanctions. (H.R. 927, CQ Vote #489, Motion Rejected 59-36: R 50-2; D 9-34, 10/17/95, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 955, CQ Vote #183: Rejected 38-61: R 5-49; D 33-12, 7/17/97, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1234, CQ Vote #189, Motion Agreed To 55-43: R 43-10; D 12-33, 6/30/99, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2549, CQ Vote #137: Motion Agreed To 59-41: R 52-3; D 7-38, 6/20/00, Kerry Voted Nay)

In 2000, Kerry Said Florida Politics Is Only Reason Cuba Sanctions Still In Place. "Senator John F. Kerry, the Massachusetts Democrat and member of the Foreign Relations Committee, said in an interview that a reevaluation of relations with Cuba was 'way overdue.' 'We have a frozen, stalemated, counterproductive policy that is not in humanitarian interests nor in our larger credibility interest in the region,' Kerry said. & 'It speaks volumes about the problems in the current American electoral process. & The only reason we don't reevaluate the policy is the politics of Florida.'" (John Donnelly, "Policy Review Likely On Cuba," The Boston Globe, 4/9/00)

Now Kerry Panders To Cuban Vote, Saying He Would Not Lift Embargo Against Cuba. TIM RUSSERT: "Would you consider lifting sanctions, lifting the embargo against Cuba?" SEN. KERRY: "Not unilaterally, not now, no." (NBC's "Meet The Press," 8/31/03)

Kerry Does Not Support "Opening Up The Embargo Wily Nilly." "Kerry said he believes in 'engagement' with the communist island nation but that does not mean, 'Open up the dialogue.' He believes it 'means travel and perhaps even remittances or cultural exchanges' but he does not support 'opening up the embargo wily nilly.'" (Daniel A. Ricker, "Kerry Says Bush Did Not Build A 'Legitimate Coalition' In Iraq," The Miami Herald, 11/25/03)

Flip-Flopped On NAFTA

Kerry Voted For NAFTA. (H.R. 3450, CQ Vote #395: Passed 61-38: R 34-10; D 27-28, 11/20/93, Kerry Voted Yea)

Kerry Recognized NAFTA Is Our Future. "'NAFTA recognizes the reality of today's economy - globalization and technology,' Kerry said. 'Our future is not in competing at the low-level wage job; it is in creating high-wage, new technology jobs based on our skills and our productivity.'" (John Aloysius Farrell, "Senate's OK Finalizes NAFTA Pact," The Boston Globe, 11/21/93)

Now, Kerry Expresses Doubt About NAFTA. "Kerry, who voted for NAFTA in 1993, expressed some doubt about the strength of free-trade agreements. 'If it were before me today, I would vote against it because it doesn't have environmental or labor standards in it,' he said." (David Lightman, "Democrats Battle For Labor's Backing," Hartford Courant, 8/6/03)

Flip-Flopped On Double Taxation Of Dividends

December 2002: Kerry Favored Ending Double Taxation Of Dividends. "[T]o encourage investments in the jobs of the future - I think we should eliminate the tax on capital gains for investments in critical technology companies - zero capital gains on $100 million issuance of stock if it's held for 5 years and has created real jobs. And we should attempt to end the double taxation of dividends." (Sen. John Kerry, Remarks At The City Club Of Cleveland, 12/3/02)

May 2003: Kerry Said He Opposed Ending Double Taxation Of Dividends. "Kerry also reiterated his opposition to the Republican plan to cut taxes on stock dividends. 'This is not the time for a dividends tax cut that goes to individuals,' he said." ("Kerry Says Time Is On Dems' Side," The Associated Press, 5/8/03)

Flip-Flopped On Raising Taxes During Economic Downturn

September 2001: Said Should Not Raise Taxes In Economic Downturn. "The first priority is the economy of our nation. And when you have a downturn in the economy, the last thing you do is raise taxes or cut spending. We shouldn't do either. We need to maintain a course that hopefully will stimulate the economy. . . . No, we should not raise taxes, but we have to put everything on the table to take a look at why we have this structural problem today. . . .[Y]ou don't want to raise taxes." (NBC's "Meet The Press," 9/2/01)





We Should "Absolutely Not Raise Taxes." "Well, I think it's very clear what I favor because we voted for it early in the spring, which was the Democratic budget alternative that had triggers in it where you didn't wind up spending money you don't have. It had a smaller tax cut but more tax cut for a stimulus, which is what we need. So you ask me, what do we need now? Yes, we need additional stimulus. We should absolutely not raise taxes. We should not cut spending. What we need to do is drive the economy of this country. The economy is the number one issue. It is the most important thing we should focus on." (CNN's "Evans, Novak, Hunt & Shields," 9/8/01)
 

April 2002: Said He Wanted Larger Tax Cut And Was "Not In Favor Of" Repeal. CNN's TUCKER CARLSON: "Senator Kerry . . . [many Democrats] [g]et a lot of political mileage out of criticizing [President Bush's tax cut], but nobody has the courage to say repeal it. Are you for repealing it?" KERRY: "It's not a question of courage. . . . And it's not an issue right now. We passed appropriately a tax cut as a stimulus, some $40 billion. Many of us thought it should have even maybe been a little bit larger this last year & [T]he next tax cut doesn't take effect until 2004. If we can grow the economy enough between now and then, if we have sensible policies in place and make good choices, who knows what our choices will be. So it's simply not a ripe issue right now. And I'm not in favor of turning around today and repealing it." (CNN's "Crossfire," 4/16/02)
   
December 2002: Flip-Flopped, Would Keep Tax Cuts From Taking Effect. NBC's TIM RUSSERT: "Senator . . . should we freeze or roll back the Bush tax cut?" KERRY: "Well, I wouldn't take away from people who've already been given their tax cut & What I would not do is give any new Bush tax cuts." & RUSSERT: "So the tax cut that's scheduled to be implemented in the coming years &" KERRY: "No new tax cut under the Bush plan. . . . It doesn't make economic sense." & RUSSERT: "Now, this is a change &" (NBC's "Meet The Press," 12/1/02)
     

Called For Freeze Of Bush Tax Cuts In Favor Of Year-Long Suspension Of Payroll Taxes On First $10,000 Of Personal Income. "Kerry said Bush's tax cuts have mainly benefited the rich while doing little for the economy. Kerry is proposing to halt Bush's additional tax cuts and instead impose a yearlong suspension of payroll taxes on the first $10,000 of income to help the poor and middle class." (Tyler Bridges, "Kerry Visits Miami To Start Raising Funds," The Miami Herald, 12/7/02)


Flip-Flopped On Small Business Income Taxes

Kerry Voted Against Exempting Small Businesses And Family Farms From Clinton Income Tax Increase. (S. Con. Res. 18, CQ Vote #79: Motion Agreed To 54-45: R 0-43; D 54-2, 3/25/93, Kerry Voted Yea)

Three Months Later, Kerry Voted In Favor Of Proposal To Exclude Small Businesses From The Increased Income Tax. (S. 1134, CQ Vote #171: Motion Rejected 56-42: R 43-0; D 13-42, 6/24/93, Kerry Voted Yea)

Kerry Claimed He Fought To Exempt Small Businesses From Income Tax Increases. "I worked to amend the reconciliation bill so that it would & exempt small businesses who are classified as subchapter S corporations from the increased individual income tax." (Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, 6/29/93, p. S 8268)

Kerry Flip-Flopped On 50-Cent Gas Tax Increase

In 1994, Kerry Backed Half-Dollar Increase In Gas Tax. "Kerry said [the Concord Coalition's scorecard] did not accurately reflect individual lawmakers' efforts to cut the deficit. 'It doesn't reflect my $43 billion package of cuts or my support for a 50-cent increase in the gas tax,' Kerry said." (Jill Zuckman, "Deficit-Watch Group Gives High Marks To 7 N.E. Lawmakers," The Boston Globe, 3/1/94)

Two Years Later, Kerry Flip-Flopped. "Kerry no longer supports the 50-cent [gas tax] hike, nor the 25-cent hike proposed by the [Concord] coalition." (Michael Grunwald, "Kerry Gets Low Mark On Budgeting," The Boston Globe, 4/30/96)

Flip-Flopped On Leaving Abortion Up To States

Kerry Used To Say Abortion Should Be Left Up To States. "I think the question of abortion is one that should be left for the states to decide," Kerry said during his failed 1972 Congressional bid. ("John Kerry On The Issues," The [Lowell, MA] Sun, 10/11/72)

Now Kerry Says Abortion Is Law Of Entire Nation. "The right to choose is the law of the United States. No person has the right to infringe on that freedom. Those of us who are in government have a special responsibility to see to it that the United States continues to protect this right, as it must protect all rights secured by the constitution." (Sen. John Kerry [D-MA], Congressional Record, 1/22/85)

Flip-Flopped On Litmus Tests For Judicial Nominees

Kerry Used To Oppose Litmus Tests For Judicial Nominees. "Throughout two centuries, our federal judiciary has been a model institution, one which has insisted on the highest standards of conduct by our public servants and officials, and which has survived with undiminished respect. Today, I fear that this institution is threatened in a way that we have not seen before. & This threat is that of the appointment of a judiciary which is not independent, but narrowly ideological, through the systematic targeting of any judicial nominee who does not meet the rigid requirements of litmus tests imposed &" (Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, 2/3/86, p. S864)

But Now Kerry Says He Would Only Support Supreme Court Nominees Who Pledge To Uphold Roe v. Wade. "The potential retirement of Supreme Court justices makes the 2004 presidential election especially important for women, Senator John F. Kerry told a group of female Democrats yesterday, and he pledged that if elected president he would nominate to the high court only supporters of abortion rights under its Roe v. Wade decision. & 'Any president ought to appoint people to the Supreme Court who understand the Constitution and its interpretation by the Supreme Court. In my judgment, it is and has been settled law that women, Americans, have a defined right of privacy and that the government does not make the decision with respect to choice. Individuals do.'" (Glen Johnson, "Kerry Vows Court Picks To Be Abortion-Rights Supporters," The Boston Globe, 4/9/03)

Flip-Flopped On Federal Health Benefits

In 1993, Kerry Expressed Doubts That Federal Employees Health Benefits System Worked Well. "Hillary Rodham Clinton today offered a fresh description of one of the most confusing elements of the Administration health care plan, the health insurance purchasing alliances, saying they would let all Americans choose coverage in the way members of Congress do. & Senator John Kerry, Democrat of Massachusetts, said he was not sure that the Federal program worked all that well." (Adam Clymer, "Hillary Clinton Says Health Plan Will Be Familiar," The New York Times, 12/8/93)

Kerry Expressed Personal Dissatisfaction With His Coverage Through Federal Program. "Earlier this month, when Hillary Rodham Clinton came to Boston and vowed that average Americans would get as good coverage as that enjoyed by their senators and representatives, Sen. John F. Kerry told Clinton that he thought the country could do better. The Massachusetts Democrat said he was thinking, among other recent disasters, of his $500 dental bill for treatment of an abscessed tooth. 'Because it was done in the dentist's office, rather than the hospital, they didn't cover it. So they were urging me to go spend twice as much in a hospital,' said Kerry, who is covered by BACE, the Beneficial Association of Capitol Employees." (Ana Puga, "Lawmakers Talk Health Care," The Boston Globe, 12/19/93)

Now, On Campaign Trail, Kerry Is Enthusiastic About Health Care He Receives As Senator. "As a U.S. Senator, I could get the best health care in the world. Most people aren't so lucky, and we need to change that. That's why my plan gives every American access to the same kind of health care that members of Congress give themselves. & Because your family's health care is just as important as any politicians' in Washington." (Sen. John Kerry, "Affordable Health Care For All Americans," Remarks At Mercy Medical, Cedar Rapids, IA, 12/14/03)

Kerry: "I'm Going To Make Available To Every American The Same Health Care Plan That Senators And Congressmen Give Themselves &" (Sen. John Kerry, AARP Democrat Candidate Debate, Bedford, NH, 11/18/03)

Flip-Flopped On Tax Credits For Small Business Health

In 2001, Kerry Voted Against Amendment Providing $70 Billion For Tax Credits For Small Business To Purchase Health Insurance. (H. Con. Res. 83, CQ Vote #83: Rejected 49-51: R 48-2; D 1-49, 4/5/01, Kerry Voted Nay)

Now, Kerry Promises Refundable Tax Credits To Small Businesses For Health Coverage. "Refundable tax credits for up to 50 percent of the cost of coverage will be offered to small businesses and their employees to make health care more affordable." ("John Kerry's Plan To Make Health Care Affordable To Every American," John Kerry For President Website, www.johnkerry.com, Accessed 1/21/04)

Flip-Flopped On Health Coverage

In 1994, Kerry Said Democrats Push Health Care Too Much. "[Kerry] said Kennedy and Clinton's insistence on pushing health care reform was a major cause of the Democratic Party's problems at the polls." (Joe Battenfeld, "Jenny Craig Hit With Sex Harassment Complaint - By Men," Boston Herald, 11/30/94)

But Now Kerry Calls Health Care His "Passion." "Sen. John Kerry says expanding coverage is 'my passion.'" (Susan Page, "Health Specifics Could Backfire On Candidates," USA Today, 6/2/03)

Flip-Flopped On Welfare Reform

In 1993, Kerry Voted To Kill Bipartisan Welfare Work Requirement. In 1993, Kerry and Kennedy voted against a welfare-to-work requirement that was supported by many Democrats, including Sens. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) and Harry Reid (D-NV):





Fiscal 1993 Supplemental Appropriations - Welfare Work Requirement. "Moynihan, D-N.Y., motion to table (kill) the D'Amato, R-N.Y., amendment to sharply cut federal welfare administration aid to states that do not, within a year, require at least 10 percent of their able-bodied welfare recipients without dependents to work. The required workfare participation rate would be increased by 2 percent a year until 50 percent were working." (H.R. 2118, CQ Vote #163: Rejected 34-64: R 1-42; D 33-22, 6/22/93, Kerry Voted Yea)


But In 1996, Kerry Voted For Welfare Reform. (H.R. 3734, CQ Vote #262: Adopted 78-21: R 53-0; D 25-21, 8/1/96, Kerry Voted Yea)

Flip-Flops On Stock Options Expensing

Kerry Used To Oppose Expensing Stock Options. "Democratic Senator John F. Kerry was among those fighting expensing of stock options." (Sue Kirchhoff, "Senate Blocks Options," The Boston Globe, 7/16/02)

Kerry Said Expensing Options Would Not "Benefit The Investing Public." KERRY: "Mr. President, the Financial Accounting Standards Board & has proposed a rule that will require companies to amortize the value of stock options and deduct them off of their earnings statements & I simply cannot see how the FASB rule, as proposed, will benefit the investing public." (Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, 3/10/94, p. S2772)

But Now Kerry Says He Supports Carrying Of Stock Options As Corporate Expense. "On an issue related to corporate scandals, Kerry for the first time endorsed the carrying of stock options as a corporate expense. The use of stock options was abused by some companies and contributed to overly optimistic balance sheets. Kerry applauded steps by Microsoft Corp. to eliminate stock options for employees and said all publicly traded companies should be required to expense such options." (Dan Balz, "Kerry Raps Bush Policy On Postwar Iraq," The Washington Post, 7/11/03)

Flip-Flopped On Medical Marijuana

Kerry Said His "Personal Disposition Is Open To The Issue Of Medical Marijuana." "Aaron Houston of the Granite Staters for Medical Marijuana said that just a month ago Mr. Kerry seemed to endorse medical marijuana use, and when asked about the content of his mysterious study, said, 'I am trying to find out. I don't know.' Mr. Kerry did say his 'personal disposition is open to the issue of medical marijuana' and that he'd stop Drug Enforcement Administration raids on patients using the stuff under California's medical marijuana law." (Jennifer Harper, "Inside Politics," The Washington Times, 8/8/03)

But Now Kerry Says He Wants To Wait For Study Analyzing Issue Before Making Final Decision. "The Massachusetts Democrat said Wednesday he'd put off any final decision on medical marijuana because there's 'a study under way analyzing what the science is.'" (Jennifer Harper, "Inside Politics," The Washington Times, 8/8/03)

Flip-Flopped On Burma Sanctions

In 1995, Kerry Was Against Burma Sanctions. "'I question whether isolation is a successful means of promoting political change,' Kerry told a constituent in a 1995 letter justifying his opposition to a Burma sanction bill." (Geeta Anand, et al., "Menino Gets Ahead Of Himself, Starts Contemplating Third Term," The Boston Globe, 5/18/97)

But Now Kerry Supports Burma Sanctions. "In his 1996 reelection campaign, Kerry, after Governor William F. Weld took up the cause, was badgered by advisers into shifting his position. But as he eyes a presidential campaign and the Burma sanction movement gains credibility, Kerry & describes the Burma regime as a 'semi-criminalized dictatorship & which should not be treated with respect by other nations, but should be instead subject to limitations on travel, investment, and access to the most developed nations.'" (Geeta Anand, et al., "Menino Gets Ahead Of Himself, Starts Contemplating Third Term," The Boston Globe, 5/18/97)

Flip-Flopped On Military Experience As Credential For Public Office

Kerry: Service Should Not Be "Litmus Test" For Leadership. "Mr. President, you and I know that if support or opposition to the war were to become a litmus test for leadership, America would never have leaders or recover from the divisions created by that war. You and I know that if service or nonservice in the war is to become a test of qualification for high office, you would not have a Vice President, nor would you have a Secretary of Defense and our Nation would never recover from the divisions created by that war." (Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, 10/08/92, p. S17709)

But Now Kerry Constantly "Challenges The Stature Of His Democratic Opponents" Over Their Lack Of Military Service. "And more than ever, Mr. Kerry is invoking his stature as a Vietnam veteran as he challenges the stature of his Democratic opponents -- none of whom, he frequently points out, have 'worn the uniform of our country' -- to withstand a debate with Mr. Bush on national security." (Adam Nagourney, "As Campaign Tightens, Kerry Sharpens Message," The New York Times, 8/10/03)

Flip-Flopped On PACs

Kerry Used To Decry "Special Interests And Their PAC Money." "'I'm frequently told by cynics in Washington that refusing PAC money is naive,' Kerry told his supporters in 1985. 'Do you agree that it is "naïve" to turn down special interests and their PAC money?'" (Glen Johnson, "In A Switch, Kerry Is Launching A PAC," The Boston Globe, 12/15/01)

But Now, Kerry Has Established His Own PAC. "A week after repeating that he has refused to accept donations from political action committees, Senator John F. Kerry announced yesterday that he was forming a committee that would accept PAC money for him to distribute to other Democratic candidates. & Kerry's stance on soft money, unregulated donations funneled through political parties, puts him in the position of raising the type of money that he, McCain, and others in the campaign-finance reform movement are trying to eliminate." (Glen Johnson, "In A Switch, Kerry Is Launching A PAC," The Boston Globe, 12/15/01)

Flip-Flopped On $10,000 Donation Limit To His PAC

When Kerry Established His PAC In 2001, He Instituted A $10,000 Limit On Donations. "A week after repeating that he has refused to accept donations from political action committees, Senator John F. Kerry announced yesterday that he was forming a committee that would accept PAC money for him to distribute to other Democratic candidates & The statement also declared that the new PAC would voluntarily limit donations of so-called soft money to $10,000 per donor per year and disclose the source and amount of all such donations." (Glen Johnson, "In A Switch, Kerry Is Launching A Pac," The Boston Globe, 12/15/01)



One Year Later, Kerry Started Accepting Unlimited Contributions. "Senator John F. Kerry, who broke with personal precedent last year when he established his first political action committee, has changed his fund-raising guidelines again, dropping a $10,000 limit on contributions from individuals, a cap he had touted when establishing the PAC. The Massachusetts Democrat said yesterday he decided to accept unlimited contributions, which has already allowed him to take in 'soft money' donations as large as $25,000, because of the unprecedented fund-raising demands confronting him as a leader in the Senate Democratic caucus." (Glen Johnson, "Kerry Shifts Fund-Raising Credo For His Own PAC," The Boston Globe, 10/4/02)

Flip-Flopped On Using Personal Funds In 1996 Race

In 1996, Kerry And Weld Established $500,000 Limit Of Personal Wealth To Be Used In Senate Campaign. "In 1996, Kerry and Weld gave their already noteworthy Senate race added significance by establishing a spending cap. The candidates agreed to spend no more than $6.9 million from July 1 through the election. Weld ended up spending $6.6 million and Kerry $6.3 million. One key element of the agreement limited the candidates to spending $500,000 in personal wealth, a clause Weld favored because Kerry is married to a millionaire, Teresa Heinz." (Glen Johnson, "In Kerry's Plan For A Pac, The Resolution Of Opposites," The Boston Globe, 12/18/01)

Kerry Broke Agreement By Spending $1.2 Million Over Limit. "[P]ost-election reports showed a last-minute infusion of $1.7 million from Kerry's wife, heiress Teresa Heinz. & [K]erry denied that his campaign violated its agreement. The money had been loaned--not contributed--by his wife, he explained. 'There was nothing in the agreement that restricted us from taking a loan & and we paid it back in $1,000 and $2,000 chunks.'" ("Global Ecology Lobby Rocked By Defection," Political Finance, The Newsletter, 1/02)

Flip-Flopped On Israel Security Fence

October 2003: Kerry Calls Fence "Barrier To Peace." "And I know how disheartened Palestinians are by the Israeli government's decision to build a barrier off the green line, cutting deeply into Palestinian areas. We do not need another barrier to peace. Provocative and counterproductive measures only harm Israel's security over the long- term, they increase hardships to the Palestinian people, and they make the process of negotiating an eventual settlement that much harder." (Sen. John Kerry, Remarks Before Arab American Institute National Leadership Conference, Dearborn, MI, 10/17/03)

February 2004: Kerry Calls Fence "Legitimate Act Of Self-Defense." "US Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts, the frontrunner in the race for the Democratic presidential nomination, described Israel's construction of a security barrier as a 'legitimate act of self defense' after Sunday's suicide bombing in Jerusalem, clarifying a position he took in October when he told an Arab American audience, 'We don't need another barrier to peace.'" (Janine Zacharia, "Kerry Defends Security Fence," The Jerusalem Post, 2/25/04)

Flip-Flop-Flipped On Ballistic Missile Defense

Kerry Called For Cancellation Of Missile Defense Systems In 1984 And Has Voted Against Funding For Missile Defense At Least 53 Times Between 1985 And 2000. ("John Kerry On The Defense Budget," Campaign Position Paper, John Kerry For U.S. Senate, 1984; S. 1160, CQ Vote #99: Rejected 21-78: R 2-50; D 19-28, 6/4/85, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1160, CQ Vote #100: Rejected 38-57: R 6-45; D 32-12, 6/4/85, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1160, CQ Vote #101: Rejected 36-59: R 1-49; D 35-10, 6/4/85, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1160, CQ Vote #103: Rejected 33-62: R 28-22; D 5-40, 6/4/85, Kerry Voted Nay; H.J. Res. 465, CQ Vote #365: Motion Agreed To 64-32: R 49-2; D 15-30, 12/10/85, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 4515, CQ Vote #122: Ruled Non-Germane 45-47: R 7-42; D 38-5, 6/6/86, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 2638, CQ Vote #176: Motion Agreed To 50-49: R 41-11; D 9-38, 8/5/86, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2638, CQ Vote #177: Rejected 49-50: R 10-42; D 39-8, 8/5/86, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1174, CQ Vote #248: Motion Agreed To 58-38: R 8-37; D 50-1, 9/17/87, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1174, CQ Vote #259: Motion Agreed To 51-50: R 37-9; D 13-41, With Vice President Bush Casting An " Yea " Vote, 9/22/87, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2355, CQ Vote #124: Motion Agreed To 66-29: R 38-6; D 28-23, 5/11/88, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2355, CQ Vote #125: Motion Agreed To 50-46: R 38-7; D 12-39, 5/11/88, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2355, CQ Vote #126: Motion Rejected 47-50: R 38-6; D 9-44, 5/11/88, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2355, CQ Vote #128: Motion Rejected 48-50: R 6-39; D 42-11, 5/11/88, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 2355, CQ Vote #136: Motion Agreed To 56-37: R 9-34; D 47-3, 5/13/88, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 2355, CQ Vote #137: Motion Agreed To 51-43: R 38-5; D 13-38, 5/13/88, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 4264, CQ Vote #251: Motion Rejected 35-58: R 35-9; D 0-49, 7/14/88, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 4781, CQ Vote #296: Motion Agreed To 50-44: R 5-39; D 45-5, 8/5/88, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1352, CQ Vote #148: Motion Agreed To 50-47: R 37-6; D 13-41, 7/27/89, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 3072, CQ Vote #202: Rejected 34-66: R 27-18; D 7-48, 9/26/89, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 3072, CQ Vote #213: Adopted 53-47: R 39-6; D 14-41, 9/28/89, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2884, CQ Vote #223: Adopted 54-44: R 2-42; D 52-2, 8/4/90, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 2884, CQ Vote #225: Motion Agreed To 56-41: R 39-4; D 17-37, 8/4/90, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2884, CQ Vote #226: Motion Agreed To 54-43: R 37-6; D 17-37, 8/4/90, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 5803, CQ Vote #319: Adopted 80-17: R 37-6; D 43-11, 10/26/90, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 4739, CQ Vote #320: Adopted 80-17: R 37-6; D 43-11, 10/26/90, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1507, CQ Vote #168: Rejected 39-60: R 4-39; D 35-21, 7/31/91, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1507, CQ Vote #171: Motion Agreed To 60-38: R 40-3; D 20-35, 8/1/91, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1507, CQ Vote #172: Motion Agreed To 64-34: R 39-4; D 25-30, 8/1/91, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1507, CQ Vote #173: Rejected 46-52: R 5-38; D 41-14, 8/1/91, Kerry Voted Yea; H.R. 2521, CQ Vote #207: Motion Agreed To 50-49: R 38-5; D 12-44, 9/25/91, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2403, CQ Vote #85: Adopted 61-38: R 7-36; D 54-2, 5/6/92, Kerry Voted Yea; H.R. 4990, CQ Vote #108: Adopted 90-9: R 34-9; D 56-0, 5/21/92, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 3114, CQ Vote #182: Motion Rejected 43-49: R 34-5; D 9-44, 8/7/92, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 3114, CQ Vote #214: Rejected 48-50: R 5-38; D 43-12, 9/17/92, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 3114, CQ Vote #215: Adopted 52-46: R 39-4; D 13-42, 9/17/92, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 5504, CQ Vote #228: Adopted 89-4: R 36-4; D 53-0, 9/22/92, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1298, CQ Vote #251: Adopted 50-48: R 6-36; D 44-12, 9/9/93, Kerry Voted Yea; S. Con. Res. 63, CQ Vote #64: Rejected 40-59: R 2-42; D 38-17, 3/22/94, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1026, CQ Vote #354: Motion Agreed To 51-48: R 47-6; D 4-42, 8/3/95, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1087, CQ Vote #384: Rejected 45-54: R 5-49; D 40-5, 8/10/95, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1087, CQ Vote #397: Passed 62-35: R 48-4; D 14-31, 9/5/95, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 1530, CQ Vote #399: Passed 64-34: R 50-3; D 14-31, 9/6/95, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 2126, CQ Vote #579: Adopted 59-39: R 48-5; D 11-34, 11/16/95, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 1530, CQ Vote #608: Adopted 51-43: R 47-2; D 4-41, 12/19/95, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1635, CQ Vote #157: Rejected 53-46: R 52-0; D 1-46, 6/4/96, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1745, CQ Vote #160: Rejected 44-53: R 4-49; D 40-4, 6/19/96, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1745, CQ Vote #187: Passed 68-31: R 50-2; D 18-29, 7/10/96, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 936, CQ Vote #171: Rejected 43-56: R 2-53; D 41-3, 7/11/97, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1873, CQ Vote #131: Motion Rejected 59-41: R 55-0; D 4-41, 5/13/98, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1873, CQ Vote #262: Motion Rejected 59-41: R 55-0; D 4-41, 9/9/98, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2549, CQ Vote #178: Motion Agreed To 52-48: R 52-3; D 0-45, 7/13/00, Kerry Voted Nay)

Kerry Then Claimed To Support Missile Defense. "I support the development of an effective defense against ballistic missiles that is deployed with maximum transparency and consultation with U.S. allies and other major powers. If there is a real potential of a rogue nation firing missiles at any city in the United States, responsible leadership requires that we make our best, most thoughtful efforts to defend against that threat. The same is true of accidental launch. If it were to happen, no leader could ever explain not having chosen to defend against the disaster when doing so made sense." (Peace Action Website, "Where Do The Candidates Stand On Foreign Policy?" http://www.peace-action.org/2004/Kerry.html, Accessed 3/10/04)

Now Kerry Campaign Says He Will Defund Missile Defense. FOX NEWS' MAJOR GARRETT: "Kerry would not say how much all of this would cost. A top military adviser said the Massachusetts Senator would pay for some of it by stopping all funds to deploy a national ballistic missile defense system, one that Kerry doesn't believe will work." KERRY ADVISOR RAND BEERS: "He would not go forward at this time because there is not a proof of concept." (Fox News' "Special Report," 3/17/03)

Flip-Flopped On 1991 Iraq War Coalition

At The Time, Kerry Questioned Strength Of 1991 Coalition. "I keep hearing from people, 'Well, the coalition is fragile, it won't stay together,' and my response to that is, if the coalition is so fragile, then what are the vital interests and what is it that compels us to risk our young American's lives if the others aren't willing to stay the & course of peace? & I voted against the president, I'm convinced we're doing this the wrong way &" (CBS' "This Morning," 1/16/91)

Now Kerry Has Nothing But Praise For 1991 Coalition. SEN. JOHN KERRY: "In my speech on the floor of the Senate I made it clear, you are strongest when you act with other nations. All presidents, historically, his father, George Herbert Walker Bush, did a brilliant job of building a legitimate coalition and even got other people to help pay for the war." (NBC's "Meet The Press," 1/11/04)

Flip-Flopped On View Of War On Terror

Kerry Said War On Terror Is "Basically A Manhunt." "Kerry was asked about Bush's weekend appearance on 'Meet the Press' when he called himself a 'war president.' The senator, who watched the session, remarked: 'The war on terrorism is a very different war from the way the president is trying to sell it to us. It's a serious challenge, and it is a war of sorts, but it is not the kind of war they're trying to market to America.' Kerry characterized the war on terror as predominantly an intelligence-gathering and law enforcement operation. 'It's basically a manhunt,' he said. 'You gotta know who they are, where they are, what they're planning, and you gotta be able to go get 'em before they get us.'" (Katherine M. Skiba, "Bush, Kerry Turn Focus To Each Other," Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, 2/13/04)

Two Weeks Later, Kerry Flip-Flopped, Saying War On Terror Is More Than "A Manhunt". "This war isn't just a manhunt  a checklist of names from a deck of cards. In it, we do not face just one man or one terrorist group. We face a global jihadist movement of many groups, from different sources, with separate agendas, but all committed to assaulting the United States and free and open societies around the globe." (Sen. John Kerry, Remarks At University Of California At Los Angeles, Los Angeles, CA, 2/27/04)

Flip-Flopped On Funding For Our Troops In Iraq

Kerry Pledged To Fund Reconstruction With "Whatever Number" Of Dollars It Took. NBC'S TIM RUSSERT: "Do you believe that we should reduce funding that we are now providing for the operation in Iraq?" SEN. JOHN KERRY: "No. I think we should increase it." RUSSERT: "Increase funding?" KERRY: "Yes." RUSSERT: "By how much?" KERRY: "By whatever number of billions of dollars it takes to win. It is critical that the United States of America be successful in Iraq, Tim." (NBC's "Meet The Press," 8/31/03)

Then Kerry Voted Against Senate Passage Of Iraq/Afghanistan Reconstruction Package. "Passage of the bill that would appropriate $86.5 billion in fiscal 2004 supplemental spending for military operations and reconstruction in Iraq and Afghanistan. The bill would provide $10.3 billion as a grant to rebuild Iraq, including $5.1 billion for security and $5.2 billion for reconstruction costs. It also would provide $10 billion as a loan that would be converted to a grant if 90 percent of all bilateral debt incurred by the former Iraqi regime of Saddam Hussein has been forgiven by other countries. Separate provisions limit reconstruction aid to $18.4 billion. It also would provide approximately $65.6 billion for military operations and maintenance and $1.3 billion for veterans medical care." (S. 1689, CQ Vote #400: Passed 87-12: R 50-0; D 37-11; I 0-1, 10/17/03, Kerry Voted Nay)

Kerry Later Claimed: "I Actually Did Vote For The $87 Billion Before I Voted Against It." (Glen Johnson, "Kerry Blasts Bush On Protecting Troops," The Boston Globe, 3/17/04)

Flip-Flopped On Tapping Strategic Petroleum Reserve

In February 2000, Kerry Said Release Of Oil From Strategic Petroleum Reserve Would Not Be "Relevant." "Without being specific, Kerry, a key member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, suggested the US could retaliate economically in other trade areas. He also said he does not want a release of oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve. A release 'is not relevant. It would take months for the oil to get to the market,' he said." (Cathy Landry, "US Energy Chief Warns Of Gasoline Crisis," Platt's Oilgram News, 2/17/00)

Now, In March 2004, Kerry Called For Stop In Filling Strategic Petroleum Reserve To Reduce Prices. "Kerry would pressure oil-producing nations to increase production and temporarily suspend filling the U.S. Strategic Petroleum Reserve, according to campaign documents. ... 'The Bush administration has put the SPR fill program on automatic pilot without regard to the short-term effect on the US market,' the campaign documents said. 'The program needs better management ... Kerry would temporarily suspend filling SPR until oil prices return to normal levels.'" (Patricia Wilson, "Kerry To Offer Plan To Reduce Record Gasoline Prices," Reuters, 3/29/04)

Flip Flopped On Internet Taxation

In 1998, Kerry Voted To Allow States To Continue Taxing Internet Access After Moratorium Took Effect. Kerry voted against tabling an amendment that would extend the moratorium from two years to three years and allow states that currently impose taxes on Internet access to continue doing so after the moratorium takes effect. (S. 442, CQ Vote #306: Motion Rejected 28-69: R 27-27; D 1-42, 10/7/98, Kerry Voted Nay)

In 2001, Kerry Voted To Extend Internet Tax Moratorium Until 2005 And Allow States To Form Uniform Internet Tax System With Approval Of Congress. (H.R. 1552, CQ Vote #341: Motion Agreed To 57-43: R 35-14; D 22-28; I 0-1, 11/15/01, Kerry Voted Nay)

Kerry Said "We Do Not Support Any Tax On The Internet Itself." "We do not support any tax on the Internet itself. We don't support access taxes. We don't support content taxes. We don't support discriminatory taxes. Many of us would like to see a permanent moratorium on all of those kinds of taxes. At the same time, a lot of us were caught in a place where we thought it important to send the message that we have to get back to the table in order to come to a consensus as to how we equalize the economic playing field in the United States in a way that is fair." (Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, 11/15/01, p. S11902)


Taken From www.georgewbush.com

Yeah, it is really hard to use invective to change people's minds when there is hard fact supporting them.
 
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Sniping101
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
October 11, 2004 01:33:11 PM     View the profile of Sniping101 
who says we will always have the largest military in the world, we wont, or we cant possibly compare to if several enemys pitched in to over throw us, damnit! its not common sence, its stupd sence, we ont always have the largest military, or the best trained, or best equiped, all countrys have thier time, ours is leaving, england had thier time, rome thiers, greece thiers, egypt theirs, we cant keep going forever.

i'm more worried about our generation than the next one, taking over iraq was stupid, we have worse enemys, we had worse enemys, north korea seems to be a popular one. i read somewhere, prolly got it fromt he news, that saddams nuclear capabilitys where declining, where as NK is only getting worse.  and gah, gah, gah! i have two brothers over there, thank God they're probably still alive because i havnt heard anything about them sence they left, i'd have heard something if they got killed.

 
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
October 11, 2004 04:19:22 PM     View the profile of Shazam 
That a way to get 'er done, JMAC! 

Basically, when it comes down to it...  I shall choose the better man.  And the better man, in my opinion is Bush, he probably cares more for those soldiers than Kerry does.  Kerry is just trying to get into office.  Bush wants to keep Kerry away.  Bush has better morals, and if it comes down to it, the moral issue will effect me more than Iraq.  I'm just tired of hearing about it.
 
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
October 11, 2004 04:32:21 PM     View the profile of Rema 
Haha, thanks Shaz, your a good comic. Bush with morals. HA!

Bush does not care about the soldiers. He sent them into Iraq without enought body armor, ammo, food, armored vehicles. He has never EVER been at an airport when the dead soldiers came back from war. Past presidents have, but he hasnt. He has tried to hide the fact that fact that people are dying by preventing pictures of caskets from reaching the press. If this man cares for the common soldier, i dont want to see one that doesnt care. All Bush wants and wanted to do was get into office and help is rich corporation buddies get richer and making himself feel like a big mean cowboy.

And Jmac, you seriously wasted your name finding right wing propaganda and then posted it here? Way too much time on your hands bud.

And we are not like the romans, british, greeks or what not. This is a more civilized time. We arent going to be invaded by China and taken over. China isnt going to be the next Rome. Get your heads out of fantasy worlds.
 
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[This message has been edited by Rema (edited October 11, 2004 04:36:42 PM )]
Sniping101
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
October 11, 2004 05:25:28 PM     View the profile of Sniping101 
Rema, we are Rome, in almost every possible way we mirrior Rome, we are the past because those that taught us our morals, from generation to generation built those empires, the worlds moral and mental workings have not changed, look at history and you see patterns, Rema, lots of patterns, you cant ignore them, rema, you need to open your closed little mind, there is no way for us to stand forever, its impossible.

many of our philosophies stem from greece and rome, our legal system is a very convoluted version of Romes, our language is that of the british. Open your mind, i wont admit the possibilty that we will stand forever because the whole idea is just ludicrous.

Rome was not any less civilized than us, many peoples of the past where no diffrent that way, sure thier understanding of the natural world was less, their comprehention of the science behind the earth put them technologicaly behind us, however, they, like us, thought they knew it all, we are no more civilized, we have as much war, terror, famine, strife and plague as they did then, ours may be of diffrent sorts, but little has changed except the toys we play with.
 
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
October 11, 2004 05:34:48 PM     View the profile of Rema 
Yeah, but the Romans had to deal with invading barbarians, we just have to deal with illegal aliens.
 
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
October 11, 2004 05:38:42 PM     View the profile of Sniping101 
romes barbarians wherent always invading, such as ours arnt either, but they are still there, everytwhere, europe, asia, everywhere,  the barbarians where as much valid peoples as the romans, and many where far better behaved than romans. i'm sure out history geek could help out there a bit.
 
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
October 11, 2004 06:22:19 PM     View the profile of Anubis 
Bah JMac, I pity your poor misguided soul.  It is one thing to spred your evil propaganda, it is another to just simply copy and paste it here.

If you wish to bash Kerry, at least do it in your own words and not go through half a page of stuff the right wing propagandists cook up.  Here is where Kerry stands:  With the Democratic party.  He may say things to appeal to the right leaning Undecideds, but in truth he follows the path of this party.

Just as the so called Compassionate Conservative follows the Ultra-Conservative Republican base.  It takes a strong person to go against the will of political parties, and neither Bush nor Kerry are strong enough.

Do not vote for Bush because he will supposedly better lead this country in the war on terror.  Al Qaeda is too small and remote to take us out.  Rather, let us choose a candidate that has a far better chance of protecting us after we are done with the terrorist rable.

China, North Korea, Iran...all of these are viable threats, if not because of invasion, then becuase of Nuclear Weaponry.  Remmy, you might say that the US will never be invaded, and that possibility slightly exists, but if it won't be invaded, then there is no doubt that a nuke or two(maybe even a hundred   ) could be used on us.

Bush is a complete fool that seperated the world moreso than it has been in the last several decades.  He did make correct decisions until the time to go against Iraq came.  Those that say going to Iraq wasn't justified and that our being there is "illegal" are anti-US hippies.  It is completely justified, but when it comes to smart tactical decisions...it was one of the stupidest things we could have done.

Eric Shinseki, the former Army Chief of Staff, told President Bush *shudders at calling him that* that the US would need at least 200,000 troops in order to keep the peace in Iraq.  Bush ignored him, and General Shinseki was retired.  In fact, a number of the staff have been moved or replaced since the conflict began, how do I know, because being a JROTC student I have to memorize Chain of Command from my Company Commander up to the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces.

I will repeat my final main statement to make sure it is clear to all of you...Kerry follows the Democratic base, Bush follows the Republican base.  Don't vote based on man...rather vote based on party.  The only area where the man is even involved is with the Commander in Chief area, and since Kerry does have some combat experience, he should prove to be far better than Bush, who has had no close-quarters combat experience.
 
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Sniping101
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
October 11, 2004 06:42:33 PM     View the profile of Sniping101 
vote by party?! that just frellen dumb, vote maybe by the patht he man fallows, but always keep an eye on the man, i understand what your trying to say anubis, but that way of thinking can end at some bad decisions, what you're saying is valid, i think, vote by what the man dose, what he has a history of doing, and what you can predict he will do, wich is next to nothing certain, thats why i sit here in the middle and go with whoever makes sence.
 
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I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle, here is my spout. When I see an ARC all short and stout, BOOM! I kiss him and love him all the night out! - Modified by Me, original by -anonymous

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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
October 12, 2004 02:21:49 AM     View the profile of Shazam 
Can you tell me that isn't flip-flopping?  I think he was trying to make a point.  I would think half a page would do that for you.  It shows you that he doesn't keep those desicions very clear...  And it just so happens that Kerry VOTED AGAINST!!  YES AGAINST...  Giving our troops body armor that Bush tried to get them.  Read these post please.
 
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
October 12, 2004 06:42:35 AM     View the profile of JMac 
Anubis, fact is fact, regardless who it came from.  Every one of those quotes and votes are clearly referenced, and I went through and spot checked a bunch of them.  They check out.  The only reason that I did not make the list up myself is that I don't have time for such an undertaking, they did.
 
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Anubis
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
October 12, 2004 11:54:51 AM     View the profile of Anubis 
I very much know Kerry voted against the body armor, and voted for the use of force against Saddam.  Kerry has done some very stupid things, and this is one of them.  I also know that the vote was to use force against Saddam, it never truly stated to invade Iraq.  To use force could have been like what we did in '98 against Saddam, and use mainly air power, possibly to take out Saddam.

From everything I've heard, it never states anything about using ground troops.  Now why did Kerry vote against the 87 billion for the troops, I don't know.  Possibly it is because of the excess spending this president has done to turn our budget surplus into a defecit.

There is no doubt in my mind that Kerry is liberal, and truly I do not see what is so wrong with that.  Liberals often lean towards helping those that need help, in areas of civil rights, education, and other areas.

Conservatives, while I agree with the conservative view against gun control, I cannot stand anything else about them.  Through conservatives like both Bushs and Reagan, the national deficit rises dramatically.  This is a very bad economic policy, as we often end up borrowing money from other nations such as China.  Kerry is rather smart, and I believe he will follow Clinton's path in making the government more efficent.  That is one of the greatest things Clinton did for this country, and had he not done it, our government would be in worse shape than it is already.

I support a big efficent government because I see that it can do the most for people.  People are inherently greedy, disrespectful, and you can even say evil.  Government can often be corrupt and equally greedy, but still retains the small hope of being able to control and lead people towards the right path.

For those that are of monotheistic religion, government is a lot like God.  Now to some of you who may be religious hard-liners, that may sound like blasphemy, but it makes sense in a way.  God controls our lives, as does religion.  With this nation becoming less religious, we need more government.

This isn't a call for people to become religious, I probably wouldn't be religious without all of the weird stuff that has happened in my life, but rather I seek to show that humanity must be controlled by something or someone powerful.

Now for those of you that vote, you have 2 choices on November 2nd.  You can either choose a conservative, someone that has no compassion despite what he claims, or you can pick a liberal, someone that is known to hold compassion for his lesser man and has tolerance for all.

I know that I am proud to be liberal, can you conservatives say the same about yourself?
 
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Rema
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
October 12, 2004 05:05:24 PM     View the profile of Rema 
Its late, im tired, and i hope what im about to say makes sense.

The republicans on capital hill like doing a fun little tactic. They put horrible things they know the Democrats will and have to vote against, in with these big things. (ie the body armor)

So when voting time comes around, the Democrats have to vote no, to stop the bad stuff from being passed. Then the republicans run around saying "LOOK THEY DIDNT VOTE FOR THIS, THEY ARE BAD PEOPLE!!!"

So, thats why (i think in my current state) why Kerry voted against it.
 

Also, he voted for the war in iraq because he believed the president would do a certain number of things. (get allies to help, have a good game plan, have a occupation plan, make invading a last result) Thats why he voted for it, but then now denouces it.

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[This message has been edited by Rema (edited October 12, 2004 05:06:59 PM )]
Sniping101
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
October 12, 2004 05:33:24 PM     View the profile of Sniping101 
a government that controls and *leaders* its people in the direction the ruling party wants is wrong, no, not just wrong, very obsencely wrong(notice i havnt cussed yet, that is due to no lack of self control on my part) that  very system removes free will and want from its people, its like england around 1774;  who truly has the right to say they can point you in the right path, that they can control you, and because you live longer its the better path, every person has the right to determine thier own path, it is no persons place to decide that for another.
 
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chipmunk man
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
October 13, 2004 03:13:07 AM     View the profile of chipmunk man 
For criminee's sake, people! You say we didn't have allies? THEN WHAT DO YOU CALL THE 30 NATIONS THAT SUPPORTED US?!?!?!?!

Rema, it's all fine and dandy for you to just say that the conservatives must have put some evil thing in the body-armor bill to force Kerry to vote against it, but why don't you go back and read the actual bill and post here what this assumed evil thing is? Maybe once you can show me a fact I'll believe you.

As far as I've been told, the policy of not allowing photos of the dead soldiers arriving goes back to Vietnam, under the libral poster boy LBJ (who, by the way, is also the guy who lied to get us into Vietnam in the first place). Bush is simply continuing the policy. Clinton upheld it, are you going to call him evil, too?

Anubis, you're complaining about excess government spending causing a deficit, correct? What do you think that Kerry's lovely plans to create all sorts of health care, which is ALREADY provided by some states (CHIPS in Pennsylvania being one example), coupled with the (was it 100,000?) new troops that he has promised, and his tax cuts will do? We're talking serious deficit, here! Where is all this lovely money going to come from? Who's going to pay for it?

You don't like Bush going into Iraq? Don't forget that Kerry promised to do the SAME THING in North Korea!

Government playing God? Woah, hold on, folks! I've got a problem with that one! There isn't going to be a snowball's chance in hell that I'm going to stand by and watch this country turn into some hardline, government-tells-you-what-and-when-to-crap state! The framers of the consitution were terrified that exactly that would happen again. It's what we fought two wars to prevent! (The Revloutinary War and the War of 1812) The government's roll in our lives should be the absolute minimum. That idea goes all the way back to the early 1700's, in the writings of political philosopher John Locke. According to Locke, government was created to maitain order and stop people from bopping each other on the head and stealing all the little guy's stuff, and that's all. It's the "state of nature/social contract" theory. In the "state of nature," there is no government. People have absolute freedom. Except that that freedom includes doing whatever you want to whoever you want. So our primitive forefathers set up government. They had to give up a degree of freedom to set up a social contract, establishing order. And order is all the government should be concerned about. What I mean by order, by the way, is stoping crime and protecting the nation. Maybe throw in some things like the FDA, EPA, and a few others, but that should be it.

Other things in society should be left to charity. There are ways to help the less fortunate, without involving government. Where I work, you have the option of allowing the company to donate a certain amount of money from your paycheck to the local United Way. My one civil war group is also participating in a living history event to help raise money for an adoption foundation. I volunteer as a tour guide at James Buchanan's Lancaster home, Wheatland, to help teach people about life during the mid-1800's (there's a link in my signature if you'd like to see it. The house is beautiful). The Boy Scouts also are involved in a lot of community service work. Instead of involving government, which is less efficient and less sincere, we as citizens should get involved in charities and similiar programs. Volunteer, give to you local church, something like that. It's like they said in Bruce Almighty: "You want to see a miracle, son? Be the miracle!"
 
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Rema
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
October 13, 2004 02:23:29 PM     View the profile of Rema 
I call the 30 nations that supported us worthless. By allies we mean the big important countries, not the little ones who send 5 guys with 50 year old guns.
 
And i can search that bill, but i may not know what the evil thing is. Im not a Democratic Senator.
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"Only Trust your Allies as much as you can Predict your Enemies."
"Do you expect me to talk?" "No Mr. Bond, i expect you to die."
"Luke, I am your Fasha."
[This message has been edited by Rema (edited October 13, 2004 02:24:56 PM )]
Sniping101
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
October 13, 2004 02:55:20 PM     View the profile of Sniping101 
Rema, everybit help is good, by sending in thier guys on our own personal war they where only saying we are your allies, not we're at your beck and call, the didnt have to give what they did, and even 20 more men is better to have than to not, they werent worthless, they mearly didnt agree with our war and so felt they would be better to keep out of it, you cant blame them for protecting thier ass, the is our war, not thiers, allies are to help you in time of need, this wasnt per se a time of need as much as a time of want.
 
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
October 13, 2004 03:55:34 PM     View the profile of Anubis 
A true capable ally in Iraq would be a nation like Russia or France.  Germany...not really, but Russia and France both have good, well-trained military forces.

And Russia would be an exceptional ally, because they have so much experience with dealing with the Chechen rebels.  And even those nations that did send troops don't really have full support by their populaces.

Australia may support the war, evident by the re-election of their prime minister, but almost all of Europe opposes it.  And I'm not just talking about Western (French) Europe, I'm also talking about the Eastern part of it too.

And look at Great Britain, our largest ally in Iraq, more than half of the people there see Bush as more of a threat to World Security than Osama.

Now as to the whole government thing.  It was one thing for Government to be small back in the 18th century.  Back then, Religion was still a major part of people's lives.  Now however, religion is playing less and less of a role.  A strong and efficent government must fill that gap.  Of course, this is what will ultimately lead to the days when the US will become an empire.

And do you think that under Bush, we've had government to a minimum in our lives?  Wrong, it is far from that.  There are many ways that the Patriot Act can end up being exploited against US citizenry in time to come.  It doesn't define what a terrorist is...and while today it may be some radical muslim, tomorrow it could be a liberal protester.

The ban on gay marriage, supported by your oh so great Bush is another example.  This has NOTHING at all to do with one person doing something to someone else.  This has nothing to do with possible harm to someone.  So what if a guy wants to marry a guy or a girl wants to marry a girl.  I don't feel threatened, and anyone that does is most likely some religious hard-liner.

And some of you say that if a people of the same sex can marry, then why not multiple people marry, or people within families, or people marrying their dogs.  Well I'll answer each.  Polygamic (hope that's how it's spelled) unions are often not supported by all parties, i.e. The Elizabeth Smart girl that was abducted by the hobo dude and wanted to turn her into his wife.  Now why not people in the same family, well this is a little something called incest, and if they were to reproduce, could have harmful side-effects to children and humanity.  Now you may say, well a guy can't have children with another guy, but that has been proven wrong.  Sometime ago, scientist successfully changed a male sperm cell into an egg cell.  And of course the whole thing about people marrying animals is just weird and you know it.  Need I explain further?

Kerry will not bring the deficit up because of two reasons.  A.  He will tax those that did not need the tax break under Bush.
B.  He will continue what Clinton did in making the government more efficient.  And even were the deficit to go up, at least the American people would benefit more under it.  Why?  Because under Kerry, people will have programs to help them, not tax cuts just to watch their money be sucked away by ever increasing gas and food prices.
 
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Sniping101
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
October 13, 2004 04:52:37 PM     View the profile of Sniping101 
actualy if you look around the percentages of people fallowing religions is about the same as back then, diffrent religions, for sure, many smaller religions instead of a few big ones, definately, no, religion also has no place in determining any aspect of the government, is *most* cases, this being one of them, i want my freedoms, many people want thier freeedoms, if we cant have our freedoms, then there will be a revolotion, i for one will not submit meekly to a shackle, any shackle, for any reason, thank you very much, and i dont support bush, or kerry, i support fury, so stick that in yer pipe and smoke it.
 
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"As long as their is Space, Im going to stare off into it"-Garfield
I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle, here is my spout. When I see an ARC all short and stout, BOOM! I kiss him and love him all the night out! - Modified by Me, original by -anonymous

Talon
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  RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
October 13, 2004 10:50:38 PM     View the profile of Talon 
Ok.. this has gotten waaay off topic. If you want to start a new thread in the Lounge, do so.
 
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