JMac
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RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
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February 19, 2004
6:13:16 AM
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?
Fury, what are you talking about with your reference to the company I keep? I'm not really sure that I understood that one.
Personally, I don't think that Kerry's personal life matters. What he does on his own time is his own business, not ours. What I do care about is that if it had been a Republican that the allegations were about, the press would be all over it.
Alchoholism is a disease, not a crime. I salute Bush for having the strength to get over it. Most people have abused drugs at one time or another, Bush hasn't for many years, so that doesn't affect the job that he is doing now, thus is a non-issue. Furthermore, Bush had an honorable discharge from the military, and I am getting sick and tired of people saying that National Gaurd Duty in some way is a less honorable way of serving your country. That isn't right, and it belittles all the sacrifices that men in the Gaurd have made. I'm not saying that you in particular said it, but I have been hearing it all the time on the news, and I had to get that rant off my chest. -----------------------
LCM_ JMac/(=A=)(=SA=)(=MA)(=FOCE=)(MC1)(VC)
Viva el gato mojado!!!!
As a great man once said, here, is where you are. |
JMac
ComNet Veteran
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RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
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February 19, 2004
11:21:06 AM
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One more thing, Vukan, please find a better way to agree with me then that. It is kinda creepy, quite frankly. -----------------------
LCM_ JMac/(=A=)(=SA=)(=MA)(=FOCE=)(MC1)(VC)
Viva el gato mojado!!!!
As a great man once said, here, is where you are. |
Vukan
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RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
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February 19, 2004
12:03:24 AM
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Heheh, sorry 
The only thing I am going to attack you about, Fury, is your implication that either:
A) Republicans aren't smart ( I don't think you would go with your generalization, so please see B). In case you did mean to imply this, I just have to say you have no idea what you are talking about. That's just an "in-case".
B) I am not smart, nor am I in some way affiliated with JMac other than my political beliefs parallel his. I am, in fact, quite smart, and I do not feel a need to be modest about that fact. Now, can we keep to the topic without alluding to people's personal lives?
Here is just something I have come up with, through my Republican ideals, that you may or may not agree with.
Republicans: Reps subscribe to the "law of the jungle" theory insofar as they look out for number 1. They want to keep the money they worked hard, in many cases, too earn. Despite the fact that many people do not have an equal chance to get an education and make money like they do, doesn't mean someone who did somehow get a lucky break should give any of what they have earned to a different person.
Liberals (classifying it in a more general sense, because I don't believe Democrat would work well here. Please note that I am making generalizations.): Libs are, in general, the more naive members of society who believe that anyone who is not equal should be put on equal footing with someone who has a lot of money or a good education by taxing the dollars that said person earns. This is completely preposterous. If I earn money to support myself or my family, I don't want to give 40 percent of it away, especially if I am in the middle class.
The huge amount of taxes is what is pushing the middle class further and further towards poverty. Being in the middle, they aren't eligible for welfare, and they also have to pay exorbitant taxes. If taxes hadn't been raised so high, our middle class would currently be much larger of a percent of the States and the poorer classes would be much smaller.
Sorry it was such a long post. -----------------------
FM/Leading Crewman Vukan/Kaph 2-3/Phoenix Wing/mSSD Atrus/Defensive Fleet/VEN/VE
"And he smote them hip and thigh with a great slaughter: and he went down and dwelt in the top of the rock Etam." -Judges 15:8 |
Fury
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RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
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February 19, 2004
2:13:33 PM
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I never implicated Republicans being the bad company JMac kept. I just meant you Vukan.
Secondly, this whole "Bush had an honorable discharge from the military, and I am getting sick and tired of people saying that National Gaurd Duty in some way is a less honorable way of serving your country." bullcrap has got to stop. At least the quarter of the people I know are in the Guard and many of them are off to Iraq within a matter of days. How dare you turn this discussion into an attack on the Guard? Or Bush doing the same for that matter?
If you don't have the common sense to realize this is an attack on one man and his cheap and easy way out of serving in Vietnam (not to mention ducking out of serving his country), then at least have the decency to not accuse me of attacking an organization I have always been 100% behind. I sincerely hope my brother is not going to get shot at to support your right to paint yourself as a defender of democracy when what you are trying to do to his service is mislead other's attacks on George Bush and George Bush only.
And Vukan, you are so far off on liberal theory that I am going to ignore most of what you've said. In order to pay for the education and security and arena to even have a capitalist society, it must be paid for in taxes. I'd give half my salary to make sure every person in this country had a home, a decent education, and health care, along with a military and intelligence capability to secure it all. To say you don't deserve to pay for that privilege is an insult to the millions of people who actually work for a living. Something for nothing? Don't point at liberals for that; conservatives have their own take on it.
Yes, people have a right to keep the money they make. They also have a right to, when they do this, pay back to the society that allowed them to get their education and start/join a profitable business. Or would you rather go back to a class system where everyone is only allowed to follow in your father's footsteps and women and minorities are without a voice in society? The trick is finding the happy medium, something neither party is interested right now. So, that may be naive in your eyes, but no less than thinking your way through life should be without impedence or ugly realities merely because you have money.
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PRF/GEN Fury/VEA/TADATH/VE [SCP][PoC][SotE:HC][SotE:VEA][IOC]
Prefect - Stormtrooper Corps
Administrator - Imperial Center
[This message has been edited by
Fury
(edited February 19, 2004
4:03:28 PM)]
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Vukan
ComNet Cadet
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RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
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February 19, 2004
11:31:08 PM
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So, do you have something against Clinton, too, for getting out of service during the Vietnam War?
Also, I believe that if they want to give back to society, they can. And if you don't think all the wealthy for the most part worked their asses off for their money, you are wrong. Almost anyone his someone in the banking industry works from the second they get up until they go to sleep. They work on vacation. My dad doesn't take breaks in the conventional sense. These Middle Easterners that are some of the richest men in the world that my dad does business with, they don't sit around on gold cushions all day and sip $1000 bottles of wine. They work. It might not be manual, physical labor, but it is tolling nonetheless.
If you have ever been to an event with one of these guys, their phone rings at the LEAST once an hour. And this was purely social, it had absolutely no business involved. If someone calls you at one in the morning about something bad, they have to get up and see what is happening. If a building that some construction workers are working on burns down in the middle of the night, do you think they get up right then to go fix it? No, I didn't think so.
You imply that the wealthy people in this world don't work, and in some cases you are right. For the majority you are wrong, and you would have no idea how hard they do work. -----------------------
FM/Leading Crewman Vukan/Kaph 2-3/Phoenix Wing/mSSD Atrus/Defensive Fleet/VEN/VE
"And he smote them hip and thigh with a great slaughter: and he went down and dwelt in the top of the rock Etam." -Judges 15:8 |
Tjaden
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RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
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February 20, 2004
12:02:08 AM
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In Fury's defense I don't believe that he was implying that wealthy people don't work for a living, but that most of the people in the VE, i.e. you Vukan(I don't really know you so I'll only assume that you are a student as most of us are), haven't started a career as of yet. We don't yet work for a living. As for politics in general, I don't care for them. Since campaigning began this year I have yet to hear anything about issues that actually deal with being the president. All I know is that Dean is mean, Edwards is from the south, Kerry is playing up the fact that he was a luietenant in Nam, and the terminator is the friggin' governor of California. I believe I've made my point. -----------------------
"Water, water everywhere and all the boards did shrink. Water, water everywhere and not a drop to drink.~Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner.
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Kuroishi
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RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
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February 20, 2004
12:05:59 AM
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My take:
I care little for major political parties. Both seem a little out of touch with reality to me.
I'd probably have a lot fewer problems with Bush Jr. if the president wasn't such an easy target to focus all the blame on.
I don't much care for how Clinton decided to handle terrorism(he sent a couple of missles that didn't even hit the right targets).
Afghanistan is still a hostile hotbed of discontent but everyone's attention is focused on Iraq.
Despite the Dow Jones Industrial Average being over 10000 it seems I can't turn on the news without seeing that another manufacturing plant has moved to Mexico.
There are a number of factors for this, NAFTA(biggest mistake we ever made), public belief(when a republican is in office the economy always goes sour), and many more then I care to list here.
If we want government we need some form of taxation, no way around it.
If it were not for government and taxation I'd probably not be here right now, and if I were I certainly would not be educated in the same way I am now.
Not everyone is fortunate enough to be in the situation I am either.
To a large extent companies are still passed from one generation to the next.
The biggest difference between now and when that was a widely accepted and even preffered method is we actually have a bit more of a choice.
Don't forget deciding to not choose is also a choice.
In the end it all just comes down to one's perspective on what they believe to be the truth.
After watching Darkstar(strangely entertaining movie) for the first time I actually had trouble getting to sleep because I found myself contemplating phenominology.
Now before I dig myself into an even deeper hole I think it is time I got to sleep. -----------------------
Kuroishi Wraith VEA
Daishi Raptor VEN
Assistant Writer Why Project Copyright Infringment
Ich bin hessliche amerikaner.
Nehmen mir zu dein frauen von vernunftig preis tugendhafte.
"And the sound of many heads hitting many solid objects was heard throughout the land." me |
Vukan
ComNet Cadet
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RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
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February 20, 2004
12:23:42 AM
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I believe taxes are necessary, but not the exorbitant amount that people pay now.
As for companies being passed from one generation to the next, that is in terms of stocks for the most part, and being a majority stock holder doesn't automatically make you the owner of the company. -----------------------
FM/Leading Crewman Vukan/Kaph 2-3/Phoenix Wing/mSSD Atrus/Defensive Fleet/VEN/VE
"And he smote them hip and thigh with a great slaughter: and he went down and dwelt in the top of the rock Etam." -Judges 15:8 |
Dragoon
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RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
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February 20, 2004
1:52:48 AM
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A specter haunts America. The specter of communism.
That's all I have to say. -----------------------
SSGT Dragoon
Roses are Red
And Ready for Plucking
You're Sixteen
And Ready for High School |
Fury
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RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
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February 20, 2004
2:27:16 PM
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LOL. People are considered busy because they're on the phone a lot? My sister and every telemarketer in this country should be given a billion dollars. For that matter, how about me? I am almost always discussing a project or some other piece of minutae concerning technology with someone.
Actually I've never said the wealthy were idle, I said anyone arguing so vociferously to make money and not give back to the society that gave them the privilege is being disingenous. Also, the problem is not that taxes are too high (they aren't when you look at other modern societies), its that the return on investment is not evident to most of us. Our taxes are being squandered on politician's pet projects or on tax breaks to companies who are leaving the country.
Also, Kuroishi has pointed out a lot of the problems we all either have together or have lost track of due to all the poison spilling out of both parties ad campaigns. So thanks for that level-headed post.
To end this session, Clinton was never pretending he was against the Vietnam War. So, if nothing else, it was one of the few times we can all agree he was being honest with us. Plus he got a scholarship to further his education, not a chance to fly planes on the government's dime. I don't think you really want to walk down that road as a basis of comparison.
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PRF/GEN Fury/VEA/TADATH/VE [SCP][PoC][SotE:HC][SotE:VEA][IOC]
Prefect - Stormtrooper Corps
Administrator - Imperial Center
[This message has been edited by
Fury
(edited February 20, 2004
2:29:55 PM)]
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Fury
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RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
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February 20, 2004
2:34:38 PM
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One last thing. I was just reading an interview with John Kenneth Galbraith and, to him, the concept of stockholders running companies is a concept long dead in the past. He places the responsibility and culpability of the operation of a corporation on the management team as most multinationals are too widespread and diverse for any stockholder to fully grasp an awareness of unless they have a very, very specialized portfolio (and then you'd be questioning their sanity).
His cases in point: Enron, WorldCom, Tyco, et al. No stockholders were aware of the cooked numbers, the malfeasance, the outright criminal behavior at any of these corporations. Everything was in the hands of the management team and they behaved in a most unethical manner.
So much for that check and balance. -----------------------
PRF/GEN Fury/VEA/TADATH/VE [SCP][PoC][SotE:HC][SotE:VEA][IOC]
Prefect - Stormtrooper Corps
Administrator - Imperial Center |
Vukan
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RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
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February 21, 2004
12:22:42 AM
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Hey, great, we have maybe as many as ten examples there...how many large companies or corporations in the States? Well, I am pretty sure that it numbers more than TEN.
As for being on the phone all the time, I said that was what he was doing on his off-time, now didn't I? I don't see telemarketers walking around with phones on their off-time, do you Fury? Oh, wait, I am sure you can think of someone that does. And yes, you may always be discussing something involving technology or what you do for a living with someone else...if you enjoy that, and it isn't just for work, I am glad you do it.
As for politicians using our tax dollars for their "pet projects", that is what ALWAYS HAPPENS WITH TAX DOLLARS. Can you give me an example where in a society that taxes heavily, the politicians don't use the money for their agenda? Hmmm, how about Russia? No, nope, don't think so. China? Hah, I laugh. Any one of the other modern democracies? Nope...I am pretty sure all the politicians have an agenda of their own that they try and get as much money and funds as they can, for.
EDIT: W00t, 100 posts :-D.
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FM/Leading Crewman Vukan/Kaph 2-3/Phoenix Wing/mSSD Atrus/Defensive Fleet/VEN/VE {=A=}
"And he smote them hip and thigh with a great slaughter: and he went down and dwelt in the top of the rock Etam." -Judges 15:8
[This message has been edited by
(edited February 21, 2004
12:23:24 AM)]
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Arturus
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RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
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February 21, 2004
11:29:08 AM
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well Vukan Ican think of three countries that have high taxes and use it to provide an excellent social safety net. Sweden, Finland, and Norway. There are also many others but these three I thought I would mention for an important reason. These three countries are rated by the economist as three of the least corrupt nations in the world.
Also, yes there are more than 10 corporations in the US, keep in mind of something, most shareholders dont attend the annual shareholders meeting and most dont vote. The company is controlled by a small minority of investors, sometimes as few as five or six, who make all the decisions. The way corporations are set up its not worth it for most shareholders to bother, also since most shareholders dont have significant shares, the few with the most shares can cook the books and do whatever they want with the company and manage to hide it from the small shareholders.
ANd tellme, what percentage of those "off-work" calls were recieved during the hours most peoplework, that being 9-5 mon-fri. Oh wait I forgot, not many cause they are usually on the golf course instead of in the office. Oh, and tellme, how many of these calls were from their stockbrokers and bankers or country clubs returning their calls about some reservation. What percentage were actually work related in whichthey did work for their company.
And swomz, do not fool yourself for one minute into thinking Americans pay high tax rates. America has some of the lowest tax rates in the OECD. Of course this is partly due to the fact that America and South Africa are the only two westernised countries without some form of socialised medicine.
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SL/ESN_Arturus/Kaph 1-1/Phoenix Wing/M-SSD_Atrus/VE/VEN/(=a=)(=sa=)(=jcpa=)(=scpa=)[MC:1][SV][BRC][LoC]
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No...I expect to leave on some beach with absolutely no name at all while I sail away on my ship...and then Ill shout the name back to you...savvy?
[This message has been edited by
Arturus
(edited February 21, 2004
11:38:07 AM)]
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Fury
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RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
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February 21, 2004
11:55:19 AM
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Point is, I don't have any remorse for anyone who takes a job that consumes their day. I've done it myself and it doesn't make me a heroic capitalist, it makes me an idiot who can't stop answering his phone at odd hours. Hell, most of us will end up with a job like that at some point. My actual argument is that these are Vukan's "heroes" because they work so hard.
Working hard is never being away from your desk/workstation/whatever while being on salary (or worse, hourly without overtime pay) and never getting thanked for it. Being interrupted while out on the town is, yes, an inconvenience, but not the trauma it is being suggested to be. Work sucks, and if its that big a problem, good luck finding a job that consumes less time. It is not the exclusive territory of the upper class jet set.
Also, thanks for your smarmy response you jerk.
As for government spending and waste, of course it happens in nearly every country. The argument is that we have less and less accountability in this country the way power has crept into the executive branch and in the way it is harder and harder to change Congressional members without money the way the election system is.
But you go right ahead and beat the same drum if you think that is helping you. Yes, liberals are "bad" and "tax and spenders" even though, at last check, it was a Republican who created a new executive department and blew away any surplus we had. Yeah, you right.
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PRF/GEN Fury/VEA/TADATH/VE [SCP][PoC][SotE:HC][SotE:VEA][IOC]
Prefect - Stormtrooper Corps
Administrator - Imperial Center
[This message has been edited by
Fury
(edited February 21, 2004
12:00:26 AM)]
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Vukan
ComNet Cadet
Post Number: 278
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RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
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February 21, 2004
12:18:51 AM
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It turns out Talon probably was right, I won't get anywhere arguing this with you guys. So, for the sake of being able to do something useful with the time I spend on this topic, I am stopping here. Take it as a victory if you want, but of course you wouldn't consider it a victory, would you? -----------------------
FM/Leading Crewman Vukan/Kaph 2-3/Phoenix Wing/mSSD Atrus/Defensive Fleet/VEN/VE {=A=}
"And he smote them hip and thigh with a great slaughter: and he went down and dwelt in the top of the rock Etam." -Judges 15:8 |
Tjaden
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RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
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February 22, 2004
2:05:57 PM
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Just for future reference arguing over matters of opinion, and beliefs rarely gets you anywhere. On that note i recomend taking some philosophy courses. They're full of pointless arguing to no end. -----------------------
"Water, water everywhere and all the boards did shrink. Water, water everywhere and not a drop to drink.~Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner.
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Sniping101
ComNet Veteran
[VE-ARMY] Sergeant
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RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
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February 22, 2004
3:50:30 PM
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wish i could take those courses, but you kinda need to be in school  ah well, i cant realy think of much more to say. oh ya, Fury has a point, or several, well anyway i agree with him. -----------------------
Formaly the Perpetual PFC
TRP/FTC/SGT Sniping101/CrazyRAIDERS/1PLT/1COM/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE [LoR][IH][BoA]
I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle, here is my spout. When I see an ARC all short and stout, BOOM! He flies through the hall and out. -anonymous
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Raziel
ComNet Member
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RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
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February 22, 2004
4:44:13 PM
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I agree with Tjaden there.
Maybe if some of you lot did some philosophy essays you would start forming your arguments properly heh
*is not going to take any more philosophy modules after his first cos picking at peoples premises over pointsless arguments doesnt really interest me -----------------------
+ Advance Recon Commandos {ARC} +
SL/SGMTRaziel/4SQD/1COMP/1BAT/1RGT/Tadath/VEA/ {EW1} {WoS} {VP} {IG} {CDS} {BoA}
Assistant Squad Leader - Squad4 Wraiths
"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989. |
Raziel
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RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
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February 22, 2004
4:45:46 PM
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Then again saying that nit picking at peoples arguments isnt how it's supposed to be done lol You're meant to help build up their argument on the true facts and then show how it is utterly wrong  -----------------------
+ Advance Recon Commandos {ARC} +
SL/SGMTRaziel/4SQD/1COMP/1BAT/1RGT/Tadath/VEA/ {EW1} {WoS} {VP} {IG} {CDS} {BoA}
Assistant Squad Leader - Squad4 Wraiths
"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989. |
Kuroishi
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RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
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February 22, 2004
11:58:45 PM
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Philosophy was the funnest course I ever had.
For those that have an obsesive compulsive need to pick apart other people's arguements I suggest joining a Forensics Team.
Either the headache I got going right now is really messing me up or my vocabulary has really gone down hill because there were a few words that I just really couldn't comprehend. Either is an equally valid possibility. -----------------------
Kuroishi Wraith VEA
Daishi Raptor VEN
Assistant Writer Why Project Copyright Infringment
Ich bin hessliche amerikaner.
Nehmen mir zu dein frauen von vernunftig preis tugendhafte.
"And the sound of many heads hitting many solid objects was heard throughout the land." me |
Arturus
ComNet Member
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RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
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February 23, 2004
6:30:25 AM
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*wires some money to Kurioshi so he can take an English course*
funnest isnt a word mate :P
Anyway raz, this is a mb, not a structured debate (unfortunately), so arguments tend not to be well structured. Me, I perfer structured debates,...in fact I love them but thats me...lol
on another note, I guess this topic is going to die down, vukan (aka our dead friend swomz) has been nicely expelled from VE. -----------------------
SL/ESN_Arturus/Kaph 1-1/Phoenix Wing/M-SSD_Atrus/VE/VEN/(=a=)(=sa=)(=jcpa=)(=scpa=)[MC:1][SV][BRC][LoC]
-----
No...I expect to leave on some beach with absolutely no name at all while I sail away on my ship...and then Ill shout the name back to you...savvy? |
Raziel
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RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
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February 23, 2004
8:29:08 AM
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*does a little dance
"(unfortunately)" <- yep -----------------------
+ Advance Recon Commandos {ARC} +
SL/SGMTRaziel/4SQD/1COMP/1BAT/1RGT/Tadath/VEA/ {EW1} {WoS} {VP} {IG} {CDS} {BoA}
Assistant Squad Leader - Squad4 Wraiths
"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989. |
Arturus
ComNet Member
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RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
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February 23, 2004
9:23:37 AM
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lol raziel -----------------------
SL/ESN_Arturus/Kaph 1-1/Phoenix Wing/M-SSD_Atrus/VE/VEN/(=a=)(=sa=)(=jcpa=)(=scpa=)[MC:1][SV][BRC][LoC]
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No...I expect to leave on some beach with absolutely no name at all while I sail away on my ship...and then Ill shout the name back to you...savvy? |
JMac
ComNet Veteran
[VE-DJO] Dark Jedi Knight (DJK)
[VE-NAVY] Lt. Commander (LCM)
Post Number: 1029
Total Posts: 1216
Joined: Nov 2001
Status: Offline
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RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
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February 24, 2004
6:09:14 AM
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I am well aware of the fact that this conversation is basically done, but I just managed to get back on-line, and I found something that needs to be adressed.
"If you don't have the common sense to realize this is an attack on one man and his cheap and easy way out of serving in Vietnam (not to mention ducking out of serving his country), then at least have the decency to not accuse me of attacking an organization I have always been 100% behind. I sincerely hope my brother is not going to get shot at to support your right to paint yourself as a defender of democracy when what you are trying to do to his service is mislead other's attacks on George Bush and George Bush only."
I never said that you were doing that, Fury, in fact I was clear to say that I wasn't accusing you of doing that but was instead just ranting about what I had been hearing on the news. I have always treated you with the utmost of respect even though I disagree with you most of the time, and that attack on me was unwarrented. -----------------------
LCM_ JMac/(=A=)(=SA=)(=MA)(=FOCE=)(MC1)(VC)
Viva el gato mojado!!!!
As a great man once said, here, is where you are. |
Fury
ComNet Overlord
[VE-ARMY] High General
[VE-VEHC] High General*
Post Number: 1578
Total Posts: 2689
Joined: Jun 2000
Status: Offline
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RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
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February 24, 2004
8:50:01 AM
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Actually, I've gone back and have re-read your post and it did appear you were classifying me - and others - as attacking the National Guard. Yes, you attacked the news services primarily, but the implication was there. That may not have been your intent, but the accusation was there nonetheless.
As for hearing that on the news, broaden your horizons as I have been watching/reading various national/international news sources and not one credible non-conservative one went into a tirade against the Guard. And other than the president, no one was directly quoting saying thus. That was the White House reframing the argument. Apparently that message resonated with his supporters.
As for the "unwarranted attack" I was merely responding to a perceived attack on me. And isn't that what backing George Bush is all about?
Sorry, cheap shot. But if you can get past my slam, I can get past your's.
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PRF/GEN Fury/VEA/TADATH/VE [SCP][PoC][SotE:HC][SotE:VEA][IOC]
Prefect - Stormtrooper Corps
Administrator - Imperial Center
[This message has been edited by
Fury
(edited February 24, 2004
9:23:20 AM)]
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Argon Viper
ComNet Expert
[VE-ARMY] Sergeant Major
[VE-VEEC] Senior Writer
Post Number: 1789
Total Posts: 1789
Joined: Apr 2001
Status: Offline
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RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
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February 26, 2004
6:05:20 PM
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Well, I'm probably a bit late on this, but I've at least got a comment on the form of argument we're using here. You're right that it's not a structured argument, the only place you can keep structure is withing your own posts. What it is is a back and forth argument that's more like a scientific argument. You see, philosophers have this belief that whoever can argue the best has the best ideas. As an engineer, I find that insulting, I know tons of people who can argue (and I mean lawyer type argue) till the cows come home, but who don't know anything at all. A scientific argument requires both sides to put forward anything and everything they have, with no regards to time. Then they defend it, and attack the other side. Instead of simply running over the other guy, you have to take each piece of his evidence and disprove it, part by part. In this way, you are more likely to find out which idea is right, not who can argue the best*. Anyways, being the way I am, I believe that there actually is a right and wrong answer to every factual question, be it science, math, or religion, so this type of debate agrees with me. Hopefully those of you who are into structured arguments will come around  -----------------------
Argon Viper
Sergeant Major/Senior Writer, VE Today
IW COL Argon Viper{ret}
Fallen Angel and Proud of It!
"History is on the move, those who cannot keep up will watch from a distance, and those who get in our way will not watch at all" - Grand Admiral Thrawn
"Condemnation does not liberate, it oppresses" - Carl G Jung |
JMac
ComNet Veteran
[VE-DJO] Dark Jedi Knight (DJK)
[VE-NAVY] Lt. Commander (LCM)
Post Number: 1029
Total Posts: 1216
Joined: Nov 2001
Status: Offline
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RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
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February 27, 2004
11:17:56 AM
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I believe that is what most of us have been doing from the start. -----------------------
LCM_ JMac/(=A=)(=SA=)(=MA)(=FOCE=)(MC1)(VC)
Viva el gato mojado!!!!
As a great man once said, here, is where you are. |
Argon Viper
ComNet Expert
[VE-ARMY] Sergeant Major
[VE-VEEC] Senior Writer
Post Number: 1789
Total Posts: 1789
Joined: Apr 2001
Status: Offline
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RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
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February 29, 2004
9:25:15 AM
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True, but I heard a lot of people complaining about it -----------------------
Argon Viper
Sergeant Major/Senior Writer, VE Today
IW COL Argon Viper{ret}
Fallen Angel and Proud of It!
"History is on the move, those who cannot keep up will watch from a distance, and those who get in our way will not watch at all" - Grand Admiral Thrawn
"Condemnation does not liberate, it oppresses" - Carl G Jung |
Squall
ComNet Novice
[VE-ARMY] Private First Class
Post Number: 91
Total Posts: 635
Joined: Feb 2004
Status: Offline
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RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
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March 2, 2004
12:03:24 AM
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Well, for the topic at hand, I think I should voice my opinion. I think that the government is a bit to overruling. President Bush is getting into things that he doesn't need to. What we should reallly be worrying about is Koreans.
North Korea has made a fool of themselves. The government has altered the Diary of Ann Frank to make it look as if we are the ones doing the wrong thing. Bush is suppose to be Hiter, and our Army is suppose to be the Nazis. I think that this is just plain sick. Countries turning books against us so that is makes us look bad. They even say that were are building a huge army, and that our prisons are that of a concentration camp. This is a bold face lie.
I was watching something on the news about this. It was an interview of a whole group of students who were reading the diary of Ann Frank. They said that they hated the "American Nazis" and the Nazi Leader "Bushwitz" The teacher came over to the students a few times, and told them exactly what to say. She said something about negotiations and stuff about crushing the American Empire. She also told them that no more questions were to be asked about our government. I cracked up laughing, but then something serious was said about war between the American Empire, and North Korea. The teacher seemed like she knew what she had been talking about, and it kinda freaked me out. I sat and kept watcing for a few minutes, and they kept giving the same feedback to the camera. "The American Nazis will be crushed, and Bushwitz will be defeated.
Now doesn't all of this sound quite bogus to you? -----------------------
Stop flinging Shadows at me, it hurts.
Squall |
Shazam
ComNet Member
[VE-NAVY] Petty Officer 2nd Class (PO2)
Post Number: 650
Total Posts: 4197
Joined: Jun 2003
Status: Offline
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RE: Before you make any "political" statements...
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March 2, 2004
12:34:53 AM
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I think you might just be one of the best ramblers I've ever met... That is of course, next to me... -----------------------
*Flash Was Here...*
My Real Bebop: (=A=) |
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