OOC, in the VE canon both Iceheart and Thrawn are still alive, at this point... are either of them in charge of the Remnant force?

If Thrawn was still alive, I think it fair to assume that Pellaeon is still serving under his mentor.  I can't imagine anything driving Gilad from Thrawn's service.

And if it is Thrawn we are going up against, I would suggest a very effective escape plan be developed and fast!

Quote:I know the numbers provided were only meant to be used as examples and nothing else but still... shouldn't the arriving fleets be even stronger than that (125 vs 100)? Surprise attack or not we'd already have a perimeter holding a few extra defenses that'd at least somewhat diminish the efficiency of an ambush. Although the attackers would still have higher chances of winning, the difference in numbers/power would eventually cause them to sustain heavy casualties themselves. What then would be the point of crippling us if they'd end up crippling themselves as well? Even if they'd get a hold of the shipyards they wouldn't really be strong enough to hold them. Wouldn't they as such send a stronger force instead in order to further up their chances?

There is also something else that's somewhat bothering me - when and where those attackers arrive. A spy feeding info to both those factions is possible but it'd be incredibly difficult for said spy or the ones he'd work for to have enough pull with the other faction... assuming that is the said spy even works for either of them to begin with. Besides, spies collect data and send it up the chain of command. Missions however are then analyzed and given green light by generals, admirals and the like. It is from this point of view that I find it hard to believe both the Remnant and the NR would reach the same plan of attack.

Moreover, if said spy wanted to properly cripple all the involved parties then he'd suggest one faction to attack from one side whilst the other would come from the other. The faction caught in the middle (VE) would then be crushed first and because the fighting would be so close to the prize the other two would likely continue fighting each other afterward till one would be too damaged to afford to lose any more ships. That sort of scenario would lead to the almost guaranteed destruction of one faction and weakening or even crippling of the two other.

The relative 125 vs 100 includes our station defenses and outlying positions in the system. Resources, especially battle fleets, are very scarce things. Every faction goes in with no less than they think they need to win and no more than necessary to get the job done. Also, they may not know the particulars of what we have in the area and so think they've got a larger relative advantage. All that said, from an OOC perspective, this's got to be hard but not implausible. More than 2.5x our forces would be pushing it.

The spy's working for a third party. Most of the issues in that second paragraph will be addressed specifically in-story, but suffice to say that those problems go away when the information the enemy got indicated that the given time they attacked was the only truly viable option. Remember, I never said they got true or accurate information. For all we know they thought our entire fleet was at Montitia at the time.

The third paragraph assumes authority enough on the part of the spy to ensure that. If you've already gotten the location and time of the attack from someone you don't necessarily know well, is it wise to also attack in exactly the manner they suggest?

I hadn't thought about Thrawn/Isard/etc. I'll have to get with Fury and Stormz about that one, as I'm pretty sure I don't have authority to decide that. To clarify the point of VE canon: The Empire vs the Imperial Remnant in regard to the name while under Thrawn's command is a matter of semantics. They are one and the same. At this time, Thrawn is indeed the overall commander of the Empire. Actually, thinking about that, I can guarantee it won't be Thrawn we're facing on the Imp side. Partially because the battle's not important enough overall for him to attend personally and also because Drac's just not good enough to play ball with him strategically. IC he's only been commanding anything but a squadron or ship for a month or two at most.

-Drac

I'm really liking this guys. You're doing a great job of starting to map out your parts in the battle. Now that a lot of us have posted those things, start looking for places where some of you (not necessarily all of you) can coordinate and work together to push certain parts of the battle forward. Units, obviously, are a good platform for doing that. But if two relatively unrelated members are near enough to help each other out, that's great too.

This's shaping up to be an awesome story, my friends. Let's keep it up and make it one for the history books.

-Drac

Trick, when you get back from your birthday... Do you have any idea where the Defiance will be once the NPC, agent, and I arrive at the battle?

-Where am I starting?
I will be starting at a meeting for the senior SCAPs, however I will only just be arriving when the story starts, as I have just arrived in system aboard the McElroy and arrive at the meeting just prior to the attack, the McElroy has just left to return to the Academy, but it and the Hammer can be summoned to our assistance if needed.

-How far am I from my combat position?
Not far, due to the fact that the Fearless has been undergoing a major refit to repair the damage from Snatch & Grab, she will be docked with the station, and I just have to get aboard.

-How can I get there?
Run like a bat outta hell.

-Who'll be with me?
Trykon will be with me initially, but upon my return to the ship I will be with Echelon and the various NPCs under my command.

-What general type of enemy will we attack?
We will use our Bomber squadrons to go for the enemy capital ships, and the Fearless herself will provide support to the dreadnaughts as they engage the enemy forces. In addition we will attempt various tractor and destroy attacks using our four tractor beams, as well as serving as a platform for attempted boarding of enemy ships with our 2000 Marines.

-Who'll we be attacking with?
Depends, anyone and everyone.

-How is that enemy likely to be laid out?
Unknown

-How is that enemy likely to attempt to counter our attack?
Blast us to hell, we're a big target.

Okay Drac, will do!  As soon as my character tucks in his shirt and scrambles into the bridge, my JBO will send out the general emergency call along with whatever preliminary info we have on the enemy.  Followed by the words "not a drill people!"

Just mentioning that all my previous remarks were made purely from an IC POV. I do fully agree however that a possibly realistic increase in numbers IC could be hazardous OOC as we'd almost certainly get wiped out... something that come to think of it may yet happen or at least come very close to happening even with the current odds. Then again this should make for a good plot.

The previous reply regarding the enemy attacking as the spy suggested actually leads back to what I mentioned previously - if the source is someone not known all that well why then would even the time and place be taken for granted in the first place? It sounds somewhat like "alright, we trust you've given us the right time, we trust you've given us the proper layout of the place, we do not however trust anything else you tell us because..." That's where I for one hit a block as I can't really think of any good reason to trust only part of the intel provided.

And obnoxious and annoying as I may begin to sound, truth is I'm still not entirely convinced all these problems will indeed go away in a realistic manner. For one thing the attackers are the NR and the Remnant, so not really just a bunch of amateurs. Being the two major forces in the galaxy at this point it can be expected that both are smart enough not to fall for petty tricks. Thus a certain level of complexity and intricacy would be required to deceive either. This I agree can be explained IC.

Being such large factions however it can be assumed that they'd at least have a pretty good clue as to what exactly they'll be facing if pitted against us. Although some of the specifics may remain unknown it would however be fairly impossible to assume that either side wouldn't have a pretty decent idea regarding our fleet's general size and strength. This would be the sort of information that even crafty civilians could get their hands on. Not to mention either side would have spies of their own directly and indirectly monitoring various locations and organizations. This is why I keep bringing up the whole "would they realistically react in this manner given their background and this particular set of circumstances" argument...

Fyston - no to the 3D scanning thingy. Datapads can read and generally reproduce quite a variety of readings and stuff but they usually can't handle anything other than just communications. You'd usually need other sort of surveillance gear to work with whilst inside any structure or whilst on a planet's surface for instance in order to "see" what goes on around you in a certain radius. To keep an eye out on a whole system, or most likely part of it, you'd likely need to hack in some capital ship's/station's mainframe and get access to what it has access to. I can see high ranking officers having access to such things remotely but somehow I really doubt puny pilots would get the same benefits.

There would be locker rooms close to all the hangars for pilots and mechanics to change their gear when going on duty and when finally needing to change back in uniform. For all I know that may even be the proper protocol aboard the HW or maybe for the whole Navy even. Regardless of whether that may or may not be the case however the NS pilots would still be able to take their crap to their own quarters mostly because their SCO wouldn't give a damn about it

Btw, pilot quarters as well as some mechanic quarters are likely to be found fairly close to any hangars/docking bays. Delayed responses from such individuals could prove fatal otherwise...

Ech, I know you're on vacation, but would you be on call to be on the bridge at that time? If so, it'd make sense for you to be there but if not, perhaps you can start somewhere where you'd be in a casual mood. This isn't to correct you or seem like I'm trying to force a situation on you, but a surprise attack is generally something that causes an initial chaos and needs a quick reaction.

Thanks, Deep, for clearing that up. I'll get a nice Slicing ancillary and get the information that way. I'll probably look out of one of the viewports in the mess hall and understand the problem.

However, I do agree with the fact that, although they have no love for each other, a common enemy brings the two attacking fleets together. This happened with Athens and Sparta when they worked together to bring down the Persians. Although they had a very passionate animosity regarding their ally, they worked together for a single war to defend themselves from the Persian invaders.

It's quite clear that the spy deceived each of the factions involved as well as the VE. It's possible that the spy is working for his own gain or with a group that he wishes to possess the area but is too weak to attack the VE. He could have worked initially for one of the factions who told him/her to infiltrate the VE. Seeing that tactics or a home-field advantage could easily turn an initial loss for the VE into a win, he could have infiltrated the NR and became a spy for them. With his position secure and the other factions unaware, he simply had to wait for a position to strike.

However, I'm not VENI, so my opinion as to his motives or methods is little more than conspiracy talk.

"In war, practice dissimulation, and you will succeed."

Sun Tzu, Art of War, chapter 7

*nods*

As Grey has stated, VENI has taken over the job of fully explaining just what's going on with the spy issue...which's cause for a sigh of relief from me, lol. You guys just try explaining everything while explaining nothing.

The starting post for the mission should be up in the next two hours. I'm doing a final re-read and edit to ensure its tone and content are accurate.

Note to Deep: I was referring to our fleet's disposition more than anything, which's where I lost you I think. Knowing the makeup of a fleet isn't hard, but keeping track of where the ships are really can be. It wouldn't be the first time a positioning hoodwink has shown up in SW.

Note on Vx3: After I get the first post up on the new story I'll be writing a closing post for Vx3. Everyone involved is welcome to wrap things up from their own perspective as well, so long as you keep the 2nd Fleet mission your priority.

-Drac

The post is up, two hours later on the dot.

Break out the butt kicking music. There're targets aplenty, terrible odds, and lots at stake for 2nd Fleet. It's time to cause some pain and suffering.

-Drac

Avalar wrote:Now to try to be witty with my post... hmmm.... this will take me a bit.

You know...that was such a straight line that I'm not even going to comment...oh, wait.

-Drac

In addition to our forces in system right now, as I mentioned in my post while I was aboard the McElroy prior to arrival, they will be responding to the distress call which you have sent out, that will mean we have an additional squadron of fighters, a Bothan Assault Frigate, a CR-90, and 3 Wardens which will be coming out of Hyperspace at some point ready to assist, they are ordered to report to me for initial orders, but they can be directed where they are needed.

-Slash

to bad I don't have any experimental facilities approved yet. a couple groups of TIE gunships would even the odds :P

Note: The next stage of Stakes will begin on Monday morning, so everyone get your introductory posts in before then! Lock and load, because the heavy combat will be starting.

Side-note: My wrap-up post on Vx3 was my 100th story post in the VEN! Shiny new GWC.

-Drac