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Author
Topic:  Saddam
D'har Leth
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D'har Leth
 
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  Saddam
December 30, 2006 2:26:38 PM    View the profile of D'har Leth 
For those of you who don't know yet, former Iraqi president Saddam Hussein along with two of his co-defendants, was hanged last night at 10:07 Eastern Time.  He was convicted of the killing of 148 Shi'a Muslims in the town of Dujail in 1982, after an attempt was made on his life while he was in the town.
 
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Private First Class D'har Leth
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Garet Daimun
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  RE: Saddam
December 30, 2006 2:58:39 PM    View the profile of Garet Daimun 
And it's about time they did so.
 
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EclipseSquad

SL/GSG Garet Daimun/2SQD/2PLT/1COM/1RGT/1BAT/Tadath/VEA [ES2C] [ES1C] [IH]

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Raigen
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  RE: Saddam
December 30, 2006 4:05:33 PM    View the profile of Raigen 
Yeah...but we got people on death row for years!
 
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FM/SCRW Raigen/Nazgul 3-11/Phoenix Wing/mSSD Atrus/DEF/VEN/VE (=*A*=) [VC:B]

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Amason
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  RE: Saddam
December 30, 2006 5:33:30 PM    View the profile of Amason 
I'm with Garet on this one.
 
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--Am
Arturus
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  RE: Saddam
December 30, 2006 6:33:25 PM    View the profile of Arturus 
I completely disagree with how they have handled all of this but I will post my thoughts in detail later.
 
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WADJ, SPAC/2LT Corran "Arturus" Hargraves/SCR Doashim/VE/VEN/(=A=)(=SA=)(=*MA*=)(=JCPA=)(=SCPA=)[MC:1](x2)[SV][BRC][VC:B][CBV][LSM][LoC][BWC][SWC][GWC]


"The way of war is a way of deception. When able, feign inability; when deploying troops, appear not to be. When near, appear far; when far, appear near. Lure with bait; strike with chaos. If the enemy is full, be prepared. If strong, avoid him. If he is angry, disconcert him. If he is weak, stir him to pride. If he is relaxed, harry him; if his men are harmonious, split them. Attack where he is unprepared; appear where you are unexpected. This is victory in warfare; it cannot be divulged in advance. Victory belongs to the side that scores most in the temple calculations before battle. Most spells victory; least spells defeat; none, surer defeat. I see it in this way, and the outcome is apparent." -- Sun Tzu

"Ultimate excellence lies not in winning every battle but in defeating the enemy without ever fighting." -- Sun Tzu
Sniping101
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  RE: Saddam
December 30, 2006 6:59:48 PM    View the profile of Sniping101 
Oh no, not this again.
 
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{Comnet Hermit}
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Stultior stulto fuisti, qui tabellis crederes!

Raigen
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  RE: Saddam
December 30, 2006 7:01:31 PM    View the profile of Raigen 
/me gets popcorn and front row seats!
 
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FM/SCRW Raigen/Nazgul 3-11/Phoenix Wing/mSSD Atrus/DEF/VEN/VE (=*A*=) [VC:B]

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Garet Daimun
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  RE: Saddam
December 30, 2006 11:20:15 PM    View the profile of Garet Daimun 
How they have handled all of this? What isn't ethical about killing a man who's killed hundreds? There is absolutely no way you can play it off as self defense, either.
 
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EclipseSquad

SL/GSG Garet Daimun/2SQD/2PLT/1COM/1RGT/1BAT/Tadath/VEA [ES2C] [ES1C] [IH]

If I tell you my name you got to let me in,
You can be the sinner and I'll be the sin,
I take what I want and it's easy to see
I've got everything~
Rayden Shiong
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  RE: Saddam
December 31, 2006 12:27:05 AM    View the profile of Rayden Shiong 
If you want to play it that way, then we should execute the people who authorized the use of the Atomic Bomb in Japan. Thousands of innocent civillians who had nothing to do with the war were killed. America has no grounds with which to persocute ANYONE for mass murder.

Also, America is royally screwed, especially in terms of the War on Terror. Saddam is a martyr now and yet another reason for Terrorist to hate the "Great White Satan".

I say that we should have just thrown Saddam in a maximum security prison to rot for the rest of his life.
 
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TRP/PFCRayden-Shiong/3SQD/1PLT/1Com/1RGT/1BAT/VEA/VE/Tadath
Jelly Bean
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  RE: Saddam
December 31, 2006 12:30:03 AM    View the profile of Jelly Bean 
This guy has killed hundreds of people don't tell me you believe that bull crap that his defense attorney about it being people that worked for him that did it. Listen he's still responsible for his cabinet.
He deserved to die. It was humane for a death to he died instantly when they hung him his neck snapped.
I think they should have hung him Salem style push him off the side of a ladder and let him strangle which takes 3 minutes. then they should have cut his body down and left him out in the desert for the animals.


and Second for Rayden
WE DIDN'T PERSECUTE HIM HIS OWN PEOPLE SENTENCED HIM TO DEATH
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EclipseSquad

TRP/PFC Jelly Bean/2SQD/2PLT/1COMP/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE/Tadath

"Only problem with my Job. I dont get to see a surprised look on your face."
[This message has been edited by Jelly Bean (edited December 31, 2006 12:31:55 AM)]
etan evnstar
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etan evnstar
 
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  RE: Saddam
December 31, 2006 12:31:43 AM    View the profile of etan evnstar 
Argee with Garet no further input from me needed.

Tell em' Garet. Like it is.

Oh heck, can't help myself. I don't know about the hanging part. Maybe lethal injection would have been kinder. But, yeah, why be kind to this #$%^%^#@@$&^^%#%.  Maybe I over explixcatived there, but?

We only captured him. His own people tried him and convicted him and killed him in their own way. In a way we had to do with a change in the elected government, otherwise it would have been his cousin as judge and his brother as D.A. and none of this would have happened, because he would have been able to regain power and kill thousands of more who opposed him.

And, if we had tried and convicted him, he would have sat on death row for years appealing the conviction through our kinder gentler nation. And even, perhaps have gotten free someday through some technicality.

That's one thing I envy about the muslims, they don't F around. Your tried, your convicted, your dead. Or you hand is cut off or your eye is poken out. There is no messin around there. It's a tooth for a tooth and an eye for an eye the old Biblical way.
 
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Grammar, mechanics, punctuation, spelling, diction, effectiveness in the science, and larger elements are the facts at hand.
Amason
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  RE: Saddam
December 31, 2006 2:45:03 AM    View the profile of Amason 
Ok, this is turning into a rediculous mess.  He's gone and that's all there is to it.    I'm outta here.
 
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--Am
Kairo
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  RE: Saddam
December 31, 2006 11:02:38 AM    View the profile of Kairo 
Oh look, another worthless topic just like "Iran then Iraq" or "The end of life as we know it" were, and it will probably end up the same way as those-a pointless bickering fight over politics and religion which everyone will hate except those enthralled with it. So instead of wasting more comnet space, just talk about it on IRC...
 
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Sergeant First Class Kairo
Platoon Commander

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Know your enemy and know yourself, and you will be victorious in ten thousand battles.
You may forget the past, but it will always haunt your future.
Men can die, but a symbol is eternal.
D'har Leth
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D'har Leth
 
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  RE: Saddam
December 31, 2006 12:04:16 AM    View the profile of D'har Leth 
Kairo is right, we don't need to argue.  I started this topic to inform people, nothing more.

"'No brothers, we must unite against the common enemy-' 

'The Judean Peoples Front!' 

'No, no, the Romans.' 

'Oh right, yeah.'"


                                        -The Life of Brian
 
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Private First Class D'har Leth
-=Wraith Squad=-
TRP/PFC D'har/4SQD/1PLT/1COM/1BAT/VEA/VE/Nar Shaddaa

[Red Dragon Order]
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Sandwich Sam
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  RE: Saddam
December 31, 2006 12:04:37 AM    View the profile of Sandwich Sam 
Ah, you're no fun Kai-man. :P
 
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*DarkDragoons*


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Rayden Shiong
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  RE: Saddam
December 31, 2006 3:57:43 PM    View the profile of Rayden Shiong 
@Jellybean:

1. Don't use capps, it just makes you look like a loudmouth.

2. Do you honestly believe that Amerian governemnt had NO say in the matter? Please.

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TRP/PFCRayden-Shiong/3SQD/1PLT/1Com/1RGT/1BAT/VEA/VE/Tadath
[This message has been edited by Rayden Shiong (edited December 31, 2006 4:27:10 PM)]
Jelly Bean
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  RE: Saddam
December 31, 2006 4:35:26 PM    View the profile of Jelly Bean 
I did that with caps to empahsis on it yes we captured him but no it was his own people that porsecuted him
 
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EclipseSquad

TRP/PFC Jelly Bean/2SQD/2PLT/1COMP/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE/Tadath

"Only problem with my Job. I dont get to see a surprised look on your face."
Than Sion
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  RE: Saddam
December 31, 2006 4:42:26 PM    View the profile of Than Sion 
The world is a little bit better place now, well that is more of what happened when America liberated Iraq from Saddam.  His death was carried out by his own people, a tribute to the change in Iraq's government.

About the American bombing of Japan, I totally agree that it was wrong.  Civilians shouldn't be targeted in an act of war.  But to take the view of my grandfather's generation, it was either that or a bloody land battle that thousands of American soldiers would have died in.  To put it into a nut shell, better Japanese dead than our own.  It sounds harsh, but I am pretty sure that Imperial Japan would have done the same thing if they were in that situation; actually, any country probably would.  Plus there was the fact that Saddam wasn't waging war with the people that he was killing, pretty important detail.  Again I would like to say it was a horrible act and that it was wrong by any moral status.

To look at it another way, Imperial Japan did target civilians too.  They sent these balloons loaded with bombs over here via the jet stream.  Not any where near as destructive as two atomic bombs, but same intent.

You would have to be hard pressed to say I said anything racist above.  I even mentioned the WWII Japanese Government as "Imperial" to disassociate it from Japan's modern government. 

P.S. By the way, anybody who says "why doesn't everybody nuke each other instead of sending in troops, you said that any country would do it" should think about how the situation has changed.  America was the only one with an Atomic Bomb at that point in time.  Today if you launch one, they all launch.
 
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EFL/WO1 Than Sion/Kaph 5/Wing 1/mSSD Atrus/DEF/VEN/VE(=A=)(=*SA*=)(=TE=)[LoM][VC:B][CBV][MC:1][SWC]{VB}

[Black Hand]
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Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large numbers, unless you have a lot of cookies to throw in opposite corners to distract them.
Cosmic
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  RE: Saddam
December 31, 2006 5:38:51 PM    View the profile of Cosmic 
I'm against the death penalty, but that's just me.

I would rather have him have a life sentence in prison.
 
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Cleric "Cosmic" Vor'soth
CoT/MG Cosmic/HCA-3/SL/Drill Squad/Tadath/VEA/VE
[OPE][OTH][OPA][EW1][CDS][IH][GS][LM][SoS][CRoM][CoH][PoC][MSM][SCP][SoA][IOC]
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Cleric "Cosmic" Vor'soth
SL/KPR Cosmic/Lion 1-1/Lopen/VEDJ/VE
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Sandwich Sam
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  RE: Saddam
December 31, 2006 6:12:51 PM    View the profile of Sandwich Sam 
I have yet to see the 'punishment' in death. It is like suspension from school.

"You have done bad things here. You are not allowed to return to school for x amount of days!!" yells Principal So and So.

"Ok, I didn't wanna come here anyhow," thinks suspended student.

Servitude for life in a small, cold, dark and damp, prison cell would be infinitely more painful, both emotionally and probably physically. That is really all there is to it.

I guess I'll leave it at that.
 
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*DarkDragoons*


SL/SSGT Sandwich Sam/2SQD/1PLT/1CMP/1REG/1BAT/Tadath/VEA [LoR][BM][GS][EW1]
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Than Sion
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  RE: Saddam
December 31, 2006 6:24:51 PM    View the profile of Than Sion 
Think of the Death Penalty as more of a warning, "you go out and kill innocent people and we will kill you." Most humans are afraid of being killed.

I guess it wouldn't work for the extremists considering that fact that they are willing to die for their misled cause, but it also doesn't allow for them to pull something that ends with Saddam being sprung from the slammer.
 
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EFL/WO1 Than Sion/Kaph 5/Wing 1/mSSD Atrus/DEF/VEN/VE(=A=)(=*SA*=)(=TE=)[LoM][VC:B][CBV][MC:1][SWC]{VB}

[Black Hand]
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Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large numbers, unless you have a lot of cookies to throw in opposite corners to distract them.
Yillis
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  RE: Saddam
December 31, 2006 6:41:13 PM    View the profile of Yillis 
How are you better than him? You are still ending a life.
 
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Corporal Yillis
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jag fel
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  RE: Saddam
December 31, 2006 6:44:32 PM    View the profile of jag fel 
Think of it in one way. I dont know if this appliees but...

You need to sacrifice one (or execute...) to save thousands.


 
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EclipseSquad
TRP/PFC jag fel/2SQD/2PLT/1COMP/1BAT/1RGT/Tadath/VEA/VE
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[Red Dragon Order]
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"The fate of the free world is in the hands of a bunch of hustlers and thieves" XXX2
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Than Sion
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  RE: Saddam
December 31, 2006 7:14:59 PM    View the profile of Than Sion 
Can't answer that with any facts, it is purely philosophical opinion at this point. I just believe it isn't a crime to put to death those that have committed crimes great enough.
 
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EFL/WO1 Than Sion/Kaph 5/Wing 1/mSSD Atrus/DEF/VEN/VE(=A=)(=*SA*=)(=TE=)[LoM][VC:B][CBV][MC:1][SWC]{VB}

[Black Hand]
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Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large numbers, unless you have a lot of cookies to throw in opposite corners to distract them.
Sniping101
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  RE: Saddam
December 31, 2006 7:18:31 PM    View the profile of Sniping101 
You've moved from murder to human sacrifice, which i think might actually be an uglier word, definately connotates something more depraved and primal.

I'm going to put it simply.

No one has the right to take the life of another for any reason. Doesn't matter who it is or why.
 
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{Comnet Hermit}
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TRP/GSG Sniping101/4SQD/1PLT/1COM/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE [LoR][IH][BoA][CDS]

Stultior stulto fuisti, qui tabellis crederes!

Than Sion
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  RE: Saddam
December 31, 2006 7:25:10 PM    View the profile of Than Sion 
So you are claiming that soldiers are all in the wrong?
 
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EFL/WO1 Than Sion/Kaph 5/Wing 1/mSSD Atrus/DEF/VEN/VE(=A=)(=*SA*=)(=TE=)[LoM][VC:B][CBV][MC:1][SWC]{VB}

[Black Hand]
SC/2LT Halos Bok/1st Element/Gulf Flight/Hunter Squadron/Ace Wing/KBcC Helsa/OFF/Navy/RDA(H)

Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large numbers, unless you have a lot of cookies to throw in opposite corners to distract them.
Shazam
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  RE: Saddam
December 31, 2006 7:45:53 PM    View the profile of Shazam 
I suppose you could say that some men were punished because of their actions in the dropping of the atomic bomb on Hiroshima- Claude Eatherly was in and out of phsyciatric hospitals for the rest of his life, made various suicide attempts and it's said numerous others had similar problems- a massive number of Americans were not happy with the dropping of the weapon and their was national sympathy; this genocide could be compared to others. If you want to talk about genocide and what punishment is provoked by it, perhaps you should look at it from the side of those who were affected as well as the motivations behind the action. I have little opinion myself about Saddam Hussein, but I agree with Cosmic- something tells me a less dramatic decision would have quelled rather than thrilled.

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*Flash Was Here...*

SC/CMD Shazam/Nazgul 1-1/Phoenix Wing/mSSD Atrus/1VENF/VEN (=A=) (=*SA*=) (=*MA*=) (=*FOCE*=) [LoM] [LSM] [VC:S] [DSM]

NazgulSquadron

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[This message has been edited by Shazam (edited December 31, 2006 7:47:22 PM)]
Sniping101
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  RE: Saddam
December 31, 2006 9:05:01 PM    View the profile of Sniping101 
Hrm, am I saying soldiers are all in the wrong? No, not entirely. That's something that has to be judged on a person to person basis, I can't say someone is all wrong without knowing them. And yes, there are people i think are scum and i don't believe have as much right to live as my dog. I am an apathetic ass. But I don't make that kind of decision about someone without knowing them fairly well. And i prefer not to make generalizations.

So, the soldiers may not be all wrong, but the reason behind soldiers as an idea is. However, there will always be soldiers and there will always be wars. It's as much a fact as gravity. So whether anyone has the right to take another's life or not comes around to being irrelevant.

Whats fun is fun,
Whats done is done.
 
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{Comnet Hermit}
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Stultior stulto fuisti, qui tabellis crederes!

Merrick
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  RE: Saddam
December 31, 2006 10:45:32 PM    View the profile of Merrick 
As far as I am concerned, he was convited of a crime and the punishment that goes with it. The US and Australia can bitch about a miscarriage of justice all they like, but they would be up in arms if another country were to try to deny us our right to a legal punishment here. The way I see it, they did what was right by their justice system.

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XO/MAJ Merrick/VEA/TADATH/VE [CotE][SoA][CoH]
Verastinian Republic - Minister of Subversion
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To thy protection fear and sorrow flee, and those that weary are of light find rest in thee.
If you love something, set it free. If it doesn't come back, hunt it down and kill it.
[This message has been edited by Merrick (edited December 31, 2006 10:46:40 PM)]
Arturus
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  RE: Saddam
December 31, 2006 11:26:37 PM    View the profile of Arturus 
First of all, he was executed after only one set of charges.  There are still cases pending against him so many have been denied the opportunity to face him in court and have him convicted in person on other counts.  In particular, the Kurds who suffered enormously under him have been robbed of their day in court to face the man who terrorized them.  A tremendous chance at justice was lost.

On a moral level, I can not for the life of my justify the death penalty in any circumstance.  How is the world better now than it was a week ago when he was in jail and still had no power?  His followers will now treat him as a martyr, we've actually potentially increased his importance and symbolism.  How was that positive I wonder?

In the end, I do not see how punishing one crime with another is justice.  In an enlightened liberal society, how can we accept this blatent moral hypocrisy?  The justice system of a liberal democratic country should be based on moral superiority not moral equivalence.  It's the quick and simply solution just to say kill him and be over with it.  However, it is hardly the right one.
 
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WADJ, SPAC/2LT Corran "Arturus" Hargraves/SCR Doashim/VE/VEN/(=A=)(=SA=)(=*MA*=)(=JCPA=)(=SCPA=)[MC:1](x2)[SV][BRC][VC:B][CBV][LSM][LoC][BWC][SWC][GWC]


"The way of war is a way of deception. When able, feign inability; when deploying troops, appear not to be. When near, appear far; when far, appear near. Lure with bait; strike with chaos. If the enemy is full, be prepared. If strong, avoid him. If he is angry, disconcert him. If he is weak, stir him to pride. If he is relaxed, harry him; if his men are harmonious, split them. Attack where he is unprepared; appear where you are unexpected. This is victory in warfare; it cannot be divulged in advance. Victory belongs to the side that scores most in the temple calculations before battle. Most spells victory; least spells defeat; none, surer defeat. I see it in this way, and the outcome is apparent." -- Sun Tzu

"Ultimate excellence lies not in winning every battle but in defeating the enemy without ever fighting." -- Sun Tzu
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