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Author
Topic:  The Rules
Argon Viper
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  RE: The Rules
March 24, 2003 8:22:17 AM    View the profile of Argon Viper 
Actually, there is the million member Baath party that loves Saddam and is likely to face equal rape, torture, or death when he leaves power. Geist, I do think of the civilians, and I am of the opinion that Saddam should be in the Hague right now, facing charges of war crimes and crimes against humanity, however, this is not the right way to do it. The United States is the only remaining superpower in the world, and how it does things is usually more important than what it does. Example:  We're going after a corrupt regime, one that tortures, rapes, and murders its own people, and has attempted the invasion of a sovereign neighbor. Now, see how we're doing it: 1) Ignoring the UN Security Council despite obvious opposition. 2) Not consulting with our allies. 3) Citing UN resolutions to back an assault that is not specifically backed by UN resolutions. These are the reasons I don't support it.  Had Bush done what every other president of the US since 1940 has done and told our allies what we were doing, gone abroad and sold the war, gotten support before the war instead of just barging in and expecting everyone to be behind him, I wouldn't support it (pacifist you know), but I wouldn't be citing an opinion on this thread. It is important to take care of Saddam, but it's more important that we realize our role in the world and act accordingly.
 
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Argon Viper
IW COL Argon Viper{ret}
Fallen Angel and Proud of It!
"History is on the move, those who cannot keep up will watch from a distance, and those who get in our way will not watch at all" - Grand Admiral Thrawn
"In combat, second place is only the last to die."- Anonymous
"Condemnation does not liberate, it oppresses" - Carl G Jung
Talon
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  RE: The Rules
March 24, 2003 11:30:54 AM    View the profile of Talon 
I have a feeling I'm glad I ignored this post after I pasted those emails I got. Well, here's another. Pardon the formatting. I'm not going to retype it. :P Dennis Miller's comments regarding the Iraq issue --------------------------------------------------- ALL THE RHETORIC ON WHETHER OR NOT WE SHOULD GO TO WAR AGAINST IRAQ HAS GOT MY INSANE LITTLE BRAIN SPINNING LIKE A ROULETTE WHEEL. I ENJOY READING OPINIONS FROM BOTH SIDES, BUT I HAVE DETECTED A HINT OF CONFUSION FROM SOME OF YOU. AS I WAS READING THE PAPER RECENTLY, I WAS REMINDED OF THE BEST ADVICE SOMEONE EVER GAVE ME. HE TOLD ME ABOUT THE KISS METHOD (KEEP IT SIMPLE, STUPID!). SO, WITH THIS AS A THEME, I'D LIKE TO APPLY THIS THEORY FOR THOSE WHO DON'T QUITE GET IT. MY HOPE IS THAT WE CAN SIMPLIFY THINGS A BIT AND RECOGNIZE A FEW IMPORTANT FACTS. HERE ARE 10 THINGS TO CONSIDER WHEN VOICING AN OPINION ON THIS IMPORTANT ISSUE: 1) BETWEEN PRESIDENT BUSH AND SADDAM HUSSEIN... HUSSEIN IS THE BAD GUY. 2) IF YOU HAVE FAITH IN THE UNITED NATIONS TO DO THE RIGHT THING, KEEP THIS IN MIND: THEY HAVE LIBYA HEADING THE COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RIGHTS AND IRAQ HEADING THE GLOBAL DISARMAMENT COMMITTEE. DO YOUR OWN MATH HERE. 3) IF YOU USE GOOGLE SEARCH AND TYPE IN "FRENCH MILITARY VICTORIES," YOUR REPLY WILL BE: "DID YOU MEAN FRENCH MILITARY DEFEATS?" 4) IF YOUR ONLY ANTI-WAR SLOGAN IS "NO WAR FOR OIL," SUE YOUR SCHOOL DISTRICT FOR ALLOWING YOU TO SLIP THROUGH THE CRACKS AND ROBBING YOU OF THE EDUCATION YOU DESERVE. 5) SADDAM AND BIN LADEN WILL NOT SEEK UNITED NATIONS APPROVAL BEFORE THEY TRY TO KILL US. 6) DESPITE COMMON BELIEF, MARTIN SHEEN IS NOT THE PRESIDENT. HE ONLY PLAYS ONE ON TV. 7) EVEN IF YOU ARE ANTI-WAR, YOU ARE STILL AN "INFIDEL" AND BIN LADEN WANTS YOU DEAD, TOO. 8)IF YOU BELIEVE IN A "VAST RIGHT-WING CONSPIRACY," BUT NOT IN THE DANGER THAT HUSSEIN POSES, QUIT HANGING OUT WITH THE DELL COMPUTER DUDE. 9) WE ARE TRYING TO LIBERATE THEM. HE IS TRYING TO KILL US. 10) WHETHER YOU ARE FOR MILITARY ACTION OR AGAINST IT, OUR YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN OVERSEAS ARE FIGHTING FOR US TO DEFEND OUR RIGHT TO SPEAK OUT. WE ALL NEED TO SUPPORT THEM WITHOUT RESERVATION
 
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chipmunk man
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  RE: The Rules
March 24, 2003 12:42:31 AM    View the profile of chipmunk man 
"1) Ignoring the UN Security Council despite obvious opposition." The U.N. did NOT tell the U.S. not to attack Iraq.  It didn't even vote on Bush's resolution.  France threatened to veto, so Bush withdrew the proposal BEFORE a vote.  Therefore, we are not going against the U.N. "2) Not consulting with our allies." I recall hearing that 40 some countries were helping the U.S.  The British are even fighting alongside of us.  Kuwait is letting us use there military bases.  Turkey is allowing over-flight.  That proves we DO have allies supporting us. "3) Citing UN resolutions to back an assault that is not specifically backed by UN resolutions." This you do have some point with.  However, the resolution that ordered Iraq to disarm (was it 1440? 1441?) threatened dire consequesces if Iraq didn't. There's a nice song out now, though I can't remember the artist. It's called "Have You Forgotten." You can download it (kazaa is nice - kazaa.com if you want the site), our tune in to your local country radio station and they'll probably play it sooner or later.
 
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"The point of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other &*@#$% die for his!"
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Bear
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  RE: The Rules
March 24, 2003 1:17:45 PM    View the profile of Bear 
The French were at Americas beck and call to defend the world against Communist aggression in South East Asia, way back in the 60's. The French are currently fighting a very exciting war against a rebellion in the Ivory Coast. The Free French liberated Paris a day before the US Army turned up (WW2), using limited weapons and equipment. Paris was, tactically, a vital target for the US Army - by taking it, they could prove they were doing their jobs properly. But the French got there first. French beer beats American beer any day of the week. The French Foreign Legion, and small elements of the Regular French Army, were 100 miles into Iraq during Gulf War 1, before the rest of the coalition even had ground attack plans for the liberation of Kuwait. The French like Bush more than the Americans do. Think about it... The French dominated more of Europe than Hitler, under Napoleons guidance. They became the only army to capture Moscow (after it had been burnt to the ground, natch). Can anyone else claim that? Napoleans democratic system has left traits in virtually every democratic system in the world, particularly one: the Americans (unfortuently, they didn't teach them how to mark the ballot paper. then they really WOULD have done something worthwhile). The French Army has seen more action (and hence "more fun") than any Western European Army, except the British, and more than the Americans. When British nationals in unsafe countries are evacuated, they are given a chauffeur and a car. Americans are given rides in commandeered armoured cars. The French Government send in their Concorde Fleet (for those of you who don't know, Concorde is the world fastest (and most expensive) passenger aircraft.. I'd prefer that to a cold Chinook going over enemy held jungle). To reiterate this point: French beer. American beer. Sorry, but there really is no contest. As you can see, the French are not completely useless.
Bear
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  RE: The Rules
March 24, 2003 1:19:03 PM    View the profile of Bear 
P.S. If you had just been found by American troops, armed to the teeth, and known to hold civilians in a camp outside US soil for years without trial, would you really say.. "Saddam? He's an alright chap, actually.." ??
[This message has been edited by Bear (edited March 24, 2003 1:19:26 PM)]
Darkhawk
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  RE: The Rules
March 24, 2003 4:04:21 PM    View the profile of Darkhawk 
Yes, except I wouldn't use the word "chap". Probably "guy" instead.
 
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Bear
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  RE: The Rules
March 25, 2003 6:47:31 AM    View the profile of Bear 
*bam* Of course, we should learn something from history here. I'm only an armchair general, but remember this: The Germans got to the gates of Moscow, and the end of Russia at the Volga (Stalingrad) before they were encircled and pushed back. Their army was smaller, but far better equipped than the Russians, and had higher morale. The Russians then swooped in and executed large numbers of Russian German-supporters in previously German held territoy. Like I said, just an armchair general.. But does nobody wonder just where on earth Saddam Husseins army actually IS? 500 troops holding a city doesn't exactly seem like an awful lot..
Argon Viper
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  RE: The Rules
March 25, 2003 8:27:23 AM    View the profile of Argon Viper 
You know, I've got to agree with Bear, no matter how much you insult the French, they fought longer and harder against the Germans in both World Wars than anyone else. Also, Napoleon reigns supreme as the unmatched, greatest general of all times, no one else has done so much with the comparative amounts of troops that he has (aside from possibly a few Chinese generals in ancient times, I've heard some pretty funky tactics being used there). Anyways, to respond to Chipmunk. 1) The UN Security Council, no matter how you throw the bag over the head, did not support open war.  If they had, Bush would have pushed the resolution through, let the French veto it, and claim security council support.  The fact that he didn't do this shows that he did not have enough support, and that the UN is generally opposed to this war. 2) Yes, and out of those forty countries, I've heard that Colombia didn't even know it was on the list.  Strange isn't it? 3) Yes, but "serious consequences" was a phrase inserted so that the Security Council could go back and decided what "serious consequences" were once they decided Iraq had breached it, not an automatic trigger for action. Anyways, I'm not even going to comment on Talons' article, that sort of "shut your mouth and obey" thing makes me wonder how long we're going to remain a free society, and how long we're actually going to be a better country than Iraq. BTW, go Bear!! 
 
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Argon Viper
IW COL Argon Viper{ret}
Fallen Angel and Proud of It!
"History is on the move, those who cannot keep up will watch from a distance, and those who get in our way will not watch at all" - Grand Admiral Thrawn
"In combat, second place is only the last to die."- Anonymous
"Condemnation does not liberate, it oppresses" - Carl G Jung
Sniping101
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  RE: The Rules
March 25, 2003 10:20:25 AM    View the profile of Sniping101 
i havent finsihed reading this yet, i just thought i'd let Bear kno he had better not come around CDA Idho, i will personaly take pleasure in making him regret it, and i have english ancestory, and im ashamed of it (no offense to anyone thats english unless bear is)bear believe me when i say you are probally  the single person, excluding myself, that i can stand the LEAST. believe me you had better NEVER come to North Idaho, and WTF grammer?spelling?this is the f**k*n internet, spelling isnt required here, what? you want me to write a perfect post, Clafornia howdy to you you $#%#$%#$%@%%$@#. sry ppl, i kno most ppl are affended when ppl insult speacial ed kids, so im sry for that, i just couldnt contain myself anymore. and i dont kno what crackhead you been talking to kerji, but nobody i kno would say france owns us Jack   ----------------------- Lance Corprol Sniping101 RAIDERS Squad Army of the Vast Empire TRP/LCCPRL Sniping101/3SQD/1PLT/1COM/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE [LoR] "Then you insert a quote here" --Rizzit Formaly the Perpetual PFC "Drinking, fighting, and rowdiness is that what you think of when you think of the Irish?"  sorry if ur Irish i am to i just found this really funny
[This message has been edited by Sniping101 (edited March 25, 2003 10:37:57 AM)]
Warmaker
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  RE: The Rules
March 25, 2003 11:03:51 AM    View the profile of Warmaker 
now now now, pls all stay fair without to insult each other and btw, i life in the near of the france border line and i know some french ladies ..... o la la tre chick .....
 
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CMDR/DJK/CAP Warmaker/Viper 1-1/Phoenix Wing/mSSD Atrus/VE/VEN (=A=) (=SA=) (=FOCE=) (=JCPA=) (=SCPA=) [VC-B] [SV] [CBV] [IC] [LSM] [SBM]

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Kjerri
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  RE: The Rules
March 25, 2003 4:28:08 PM    View the profile of Kjerri 
Ok so I took this complex code... "and i dont kno what crackhead you been talking to kerji, but nobody i kno would say france owns us Jack" ... translated it into English.... "And I don't know what crackhead you have been talking to Kjerri, but nobody I know would say that France owes us anything." Well thanks Snipes for calling Rumsfield and a few other US officials is a crackhead. Also, I suggest before you insult people who are English, that note they are allies in the war against Terrorism and even the Iraq war. If you want to be a child, by all means, but please... listen to Fury's post and stop the insults, it offends people even if you didn't mean it, and I'm not even English! I'm going to pretend I didn't see anything threatening so I won't comment on that part. This may be the internet, but this is a controlled environment, run like a military dictatorship in a fantasy storyline. And when there is a highly organized organization running, there are superiors and rules. This isnt just the internet, its an organized portion of it. And on my edit, I forgot to mention this quote here... "speacial ed kids". Never, and I mean NEVER, tie a set of words like that to anyone, its not funny. I am sorry Bear for this, I hope snipes comes to his senses soon. What do they teach kids these days in American schools?!   ----------------------- TRP/CPL Kjerri/2SQD/1PLT/1COM/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE [LoR] [LM] "I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day...tomorrow isn't looking good either."
[This message has been edited by Kjerri (edited March 25, 2003 4:47:56 PM)]
Talon
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  RE: The Rules
March 25, 2003 8:12:54 PM    View the profile of Talon 
I refer everyone to the topic of a post.. "Stop the Personal Attacks" I don't care what the body of the post is.. just the topic should work fine here. Insult anyone again and you will find yourself on the pain end of my Might Smiting Stick™ And the "special ed" part isn't funny. I know some handicapped people and if you ever say something like that in front of me (by that, I mean offline) and it's not in reference to yourself, I will deck you. It's not right to make fun of things that people can't help. They deserve as much respect as anyone, and more than you do. If this seems out of context or something, please forgive me. I haven't read all of them. I'm getting tired of Lounge posts again and skip most of them.
 
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Argon Viper
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  RE: The Rules
March 25, 2003 9:29:07 PM    View the profile of Argon Viper 
Nope Tal, it's not out of context, you hit it right on the nose. Kjerri, I can't help agreeing with you over and over again, great work man  Snipes, I'm going to point out a few things.  Keep in mind, I live in Northern California, a place as isolated and conservative as North Idaho. 1) Disagreeing with someone by no means gives you the right to insult them personally.  You may insult their opinion with all the logical grounds you can find against it, but once you take it to their person, you turn it into a childish attack that is no longer worth the effort it took to write it. 2) Bear is not English, he's Scottish.  And yes, there is a difference, talk to Scotsman someday and you'll find out pretty quickly. (Geography lesson, for those who don't know, Scotland is the far northern part of the main British Isle, I believe it's actually just north of Northubria). 3) Grammar is an important part of communication.  First off, it shows the listener that we are knowledgable and can present our arguments in a fashion that they can understand.  Second off, it allows them to make sense of what you are saying.  Thirdly, it shows respect to the person you're talking to, an important thing if you're trying to convince them of your opinion. 4) Do not threaten anyone on this comnet.  No matter what they say here, it can have no bearing on your real life unless you are that obsessive.  Threatening someone is the lowest level you can stoop to, showing that you are not adult enough to have a valid opinion. 5) Special Ed Kids are not on this comnet (to my knowledge), insulting someone's intelligence falls under the first thing I adressed. Anyways, I hope I've put forward the ideas everyone is experiencing in response to this post, so let's try to move on and forget it happened.  Hopefully, it won't happen again.   ----------------------- Argon Viper IW COL Argon Viper{ret} Fallen Angel and Proud of It! "History is on the move, those who cannot keep up will watch from a distance, and those who get in our way will not watch at all" - Grand Admiral Thrawn "In combat, second place is only the last to die."- Anonymous "Condemnation does not liberate, it oppresses" - Carl G Jung
[This message has been edited by Argon Viper (edited March 25, 2003 9:30:58 PM)]
Japheth
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  RE: The Rules
March 26, 2003 12:42:45 AM    View the profile of Japheth 
My belief that staying away from the Lounge comnet is is the best course of action is only reenforced any time I bother to read any of them. ----------------------- Rear Admiral Japheth Cappadocious, Krath Priest Captain of the mSSD Atrus Headmaster of the Dark Jedi Order Academy ----------------------- SCAP/RAD Japheth Cappadocious/mSSD Atrus/DEF/VEN/VE/(=A=)(=SA=)(=JCPA=)(=SCPA=)(=FCO=)[BRC][LSM][MC:1][KC:OC] HM/KPT Japheth Cappadocious/DC-3/Krath Order/Elite Griffen Sect/VEDJ/VE
[This message has been edited by Japheth (edited March 26, 2003 12:43:42 AM)]
Sniping101
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  RE: The Rules
March 26, 2003 9:53:11 AM    View the profile of Sniping101 
1st im sry, yesterday i was having a realy bad day. 2nd, deck me and ill kick your @$$ with a large stick 3rd Every living and most dead things deserve more respect than me, and most are smarter than me 4th i was insulting him more over the whole grammer spelling ect. thing 5th GODDAMIT I KNO THERS A FRIGGEN DIFFRENCE,I LIKE SCOTTSMEN,I CANT STAND THE ENGLISH(dosent meean i havent known some good ones) 6th IF I WROTE this grammaticaly correct it would take me bout an hour, and i would need an english book 7th i've been lower 8th Kjerri, ok i cant rember how to spell your name, and yess most american officials ARE crackheads, but then im probably gonna get my @$$ kicked off of this forum for that awell, life might go on, 9th    cant think of an 9th but sry about my last post, i was having one of those days wher NOTHING went right. and today threatens to be yet another of those days, that have been poping up more and more frequently sence i was grounded from electronics     ----------------------- Lance Corprol Sniping101 RAIDERS Squad Army of the Vast Empire TRP/LCCPRL Sniping101/3SQD/1PLT/1COM/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE [LoR] "Then you insert a quote here" --Rizzit Formaly the Perpetual PFC "Drinking, fighting, and rowdiness is that what you think of when you think of the Irish?"  sorry if ur Irish i am to i just found this really funny
[This message has been edited by Sniping101 (edited March 26, 2003 10:07:36 AM)]
Darkhawk
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  RE: The Rules
March 26, 2003 10:17:51 AM    View the profile of Darkhawk 
What? North Idaho? w00t! Go Lewiston!
 
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Sniping101
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  RE: The Rules
March 26, 2003 10:35:48 AM    View the profile of Sniping101 
i just finished reading this page (not page2 tho) and i have NEVER heard north Idaho and conservative in the same sentance. course sandpoint mabee seeing as its populated by south californian snobs. but anyway, sry for my misconduct, and i apoligize, Bear and to those who wher affended
 
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"Drinking, fighting, and rowdiness is that what you think of when you think of the Irish?"  sorry if ur Irish i am to i just found this really funny
chipmunk man
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  RE: The Rules
March 26, 2003 12:27:11 AM    View the profile of chipmunk man 
Sheesh Snipe, that's a dirty mouth. Can we all at least use some DECENT launguage?
 
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"The point of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other &*@#$% die for his!"
                                                 -General Patton

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Talon
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  RE: The Rules
March 26, 2003 3:24:47 PM    View the profile of Talon 
How do you kick someone's ass with a stick? o.O Also, don't assume that just because you do it in your mind that you can win in a fight with anyone. Choose your words carefully, for your identidy isn't as private as you may think.
 
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Argon Viper
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  RE: The Rules
March 26, 2003 5:40:09 PM    View the profile of Argon Viper 
Snipes, southern californians are generally liberal...  And trust me, Idaho has a reputation for being conservative    I appologize if you aren't, but that's the impression I got from your last post.  Anyways, I'm just going to say that that's all in the past now, and we should just let it drop.
 
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Argon Viper
IW COL Argon Viper{ret}
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"History is on the move, those who cannot keep up will watch from a distance, and those who get in our way will not watch at all" - Grand Admiral Thrawn
"In combat, second place is only the last to die."- Anonymous
"Condemnation does not liberate, it oppresses" - Carl G Jung
chipmunk man
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  RE: The Rules
March 27, 2003 6:07:16 PM    View the profile of chipmunk man 
Here, here! While I support free speach, this little debate has about torn us apart.
 
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  RE: The Rules
March 27, 2003 6:08:21 PM    View the profile of chipmunk man 
Here, here! While I support free speach, this little debate has about torn us apart.
 
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"The point of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other &*@#$% die for his!"
                                                 -General Patton

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Sniping101
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  RE: The Rules
March 30, 2003 7:59:25 PM    View the profile of Sniping101 
how with a big stick, by beating them with it repeatidly, believe me man i can whoop my fair share of @$$, and im still a firm believer that "thers always some1 bigger and badder" besides, if some1 starts winning, i start fighting dirty, why? because i dont like looking like a fool who says he can do more than he can. and south calis are the rich foos who are trying to get rid of uor guns and logging   ----------------------- Lance Corprol Sniping101 RAIDERS Squad Army of the Vast Empire TRP/LCCPRL Sniping101/3SQD/1PLT/1COM/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE [LoR] "Then you insert a quote here" --Rizzit Formaly the Perpetual PFC "Drinking, fighting, and rowdiness is that what you think of when you think of the Irish?"  sorry if ur Irish i am to i just found this really funny
[This message has been edited by Sniping101 (edited March 30, 2003 8:04:42 PM)]
Riel Fury
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  RE: The Rules
March 30, 2003 10:27:55 PM    View the profile of Riel Fury 
Please please PLEASE learn to spell commonly used words and use correct pronunciation.  That's just a friggin chore to read.
 
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  RE: The Rules
March 31, 2003 8:36:18 AM    View the profile of Argon Viper 
Yeah, Riel's right.  BTW, Snipes, those activities you described of Southern Californians are considered liberal... Anyways, let's all try to leave this behind.  We all have a right to free speech until we try to intrude on someone elses' right of free speech.  Let's try to keep that sort of attitude, and we'll be fine.
 
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  RE: The Rules
March 31, 2003 10:31:52 AM    View the profile of Darkhawk 
Well, I lived in Northern Idaho for a time, and I can assure you that the area where I live was almost 100% Conservative. That was in the early part of the 1990s, but I can't believe they would have shifted their political views in that time. And if you want to know EXACTLY where, it was a little town named Gifford. Nearby towns were Lenore, Culdesac, and Orofeno.
 
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  RE: The Rules
April 4, 2003 6:10:58 PM    View the profile of g5 
I'm going to ignore the war part of this thread and just comment on the conduct. I'm going to share a lesson with you that my math teacher taught me. I don't have the wording exactly right, but, "People who swear swear because they are adjective deficient." Thank you Will Gerard.
Swomz
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  RE: The Rules
April 4, 2003 6:39:17 PM    View the profile of Swomz 
That is true, but I feel that most of the time curse words are taken with a stronger meaning.  I do think that Gerard was right, though.
 
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  RE: The Rules
April 7, 2003 8:32:09 AM    View the profile of Argon Viper 
I don't know.  Sometimes swearing can be useful in language to support a point.  However, never in a debate.  If you're giving a speech, swearing at a specific point could show your passion or regain the interest of the audience (wanna test that?  Insert the word 'penis' at random points in a speech.  We really are sick enough to be drawn to it...).  However, in a debate where there's really nothing more than your own opinion on the line, and you're debating people you know, there's no point.  Just use more descriptive adjectives (like 'calipagus') if you have to say something.
 
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"History is on the move, those who cannot keep up will watch from a distance, and those who get in our way will not watch at all" - Grand Admiral Thrawn
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  RE: The Rules
April 10, 2003 9:55:01 AM    View the profile of Sniping101 
im just gonna forget this thread existed, ok.(your right, Idaho is now conservative becuase all the Rich(insert adjective with similar meaning to dumb@$$)Calis moved up here.)and just so you kno i Live near Bonners Ferry,DH, wich is the second northernmost town in idaho(only beaten by a town that consits of a post office)
 
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