"You need to sacrifice one (or execute...) to save thousands."

When you developed the ability to read into the future, and you can 100% assure me that one person will kill thousands, I still can't justify killing them. There is just other options.
 
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Corporal Yillis
-=Wraith Squad=- 
-=ASL=-

ASL/CPL Yillis/4SQD/1PLT/1COM/1RGT/1BAT/VEA/VE/Tadath [LoR] [WM] [GS]
Rep/GameRep Yillis/GameRep: 6/Gaming Division/VET /VE

An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.
 
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{Comnet Hermit}
-=Wraith Squad=-
TRP/GSG Sniping101/4SQD/1PLT/1COM/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE [LoR][IH][BoA][CDS]

Stultior stulto fuisti, qui tabellis crederes!

Steve Martin delivers a eulogy for the bastard.

Anyways, my thoughts, such as they are.

Though the local alternative rag headlined his execution as "Old American Puppet Executed by New American Puppets" it seems much more than that. Let's face it, the guy was damn near evil. If not that, then purely out of his gourd bonkers. No one kills that indiscriminantly without some kind of mental flaw.

So, either he's nuts and needed shock therapy (which he'd probably enjoy) or you off him like a rabid dog.  You don't reform people that far beyond the bend. And you don't believe that 40 years of "reflection" will make him redeem his soul.

I'm not sure many of you have met truly vile bastards. I'm not talking about tax cheats or murdering drunk drivers, but real pieces of filth. You don't hug them, you find the nearest gas chamber.

As most of you know, I'm not some psycho arch-conservative bigot type.  I don't get a box of popcorn and watch the close-circuit execution channel. I honestly think we go a little too happy with state executions.

Sure that court was a bit odd by any standards. But they were Iraqis, and propped up by the US or not, they made for some compelling evidence. They say they wanna string the boy up, I say, "its your party folks; I'm just footing the bill."

I mean, come on. Its Saddam. We gave him chemical weapons and he lights up his own cities. No one in five centuries plays ball like he did at war and at "peace," not that he knew what the latter meant. Hell, I don't even buy any answer given as to why we invaded the place. But once you have a viper in the net, you slice his throat. Capische?
 
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PRF/GG Fury/VEA/TADATH/VE [MoHx2][SCPx2][PoC][SotE:HC][SotE:VEA][SCP][MSM][IOC]
Prefect - Stormtrooper Corps
Administrator - Imperial Center

'Though the local alternative rag headlined his execution as "Old American Puppet Executed by New American Puppets" it seems much more than that. Let's face it, the guy was damn near evil. If not that, then purely out of his gourd bonkers. No one kills that indiscriminantly without some kind of mental flaw.

So, either he's nuts and needed shock therapy (which he'd probably enjoy) or you off him like a rabid dog.  You don't reform people that far beyond the bend. And you don't believe that 40 years of "reflection" will make him redeem his soul."

I completely agree.  To not execute him does not automatically lead to the conclusion that those who oppose his execution actually think he can be redeemed.  I despise the man as much as anyone but despite that I can't for the life of me find anything in my conscious that morally justifies executing the man.  Far as I'm concerned he should have rotted in jail for the rest of his life.

Also, he should have never been tried in Iraq but rather at the international court and all of the cases against him should have been heard so that all would have a chance to prosecute him.  As I said, a chance at justice has been missed for many, especially the Kurds.

Finally, I cannot see how committing another crime is somehow a morally just solution to dealing with a criminal.  How is our justice morally superior when we resort to dealing with Saddam Hussein in the same way he dealt with thousands?  "A taste of his own medicine" or "an eye for an eye" are hardly the moral high ground that a western liberal democratic justice system must have.  Keep in mind, while we are talking about Iraq, now that the US is there they have a duty to create a just, liberal democratic society (which is the best form of society man has concieved of) so setting the right precedents are important.

Saddam Hussein was brutal, cruel, tyrannical despot.  I doubt any of us would disagree.  True justice would be to take the moral high ground in the face of such outrages by not resorting to the easy road of simply killing him off but rather imprisoning him for life.  Saddam Hussein is gone but with him has gone the imperiative morality that the justice system requires for legitimacy.  Opportunity most certainly lost.
 
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WADJ, SPAC/2LT Corran "Arturus" Hargraves/SCR Doashim/VE/VEN/(=A=)(=SA=)(=*MA*=)(=JCPA=)(=SCPA=)[MC:1](x2)[SV][BRC][VC:B][CBV][LSM][LoC][BWC][SWC][GWC]


"The way of war is a way of deception. When able, feign inability; when deploying troops, appear not to be. When near, appear far; when far, appear near. Lure with bait; strike with chaos. If the enemy is full, be prepared. If strong, avoid him. If he is angry, disconcert him. If he is weak, stir him to pride. If he is relaxed, harry him; if his men are harmonious, split them. Attack where he is unprepared; appear where you are unexpected. This is victory in warfare; it cannot be divulged in advance. Victory belongs to the side that scores most in the temple calculations before battle. Most spells victory; least spells defeat; none, surer defeat. I see it in this way, and the outcome is apparent." -- Sun Tzu

"Ultimate excellence lies not in winning every battle but in defeating the enemy without ever fighting." -- Sun Tzu

Does it make any difference with who tried him and who executed him when dealing with morals?  If executing someone is morally wrong then it makes no difference who tries and executes him.

You mentioned that if someone killed your family, would you want them to just rot in a prison cell or be executed.  What if a drunk driver slams into your familys car and kills everyone, should we kill the driver or ban him from driving?

Lets go one step further shall we.  If a tsunami comes along and kills your family, should we kill the weather forecast men for predicting it would be a sunny day.

Where does it stop?

Many countries (for example the United Kingdom) do not accept that executions are a viable solution to crime.  Are you saying that their justice system is flawed or incorrect?
 
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TRP/PFC AlanRJ/3SQD/2PLT/1CMP/1RGT/1BAT/Tadath/VEA

While i don't dissagree that the death penalty is wrong, I don't believe all people have any remorse for things. There's a difference between an ammoral person and an immoral person. An immoral person recognizes what they're doing is wrong and does it anyway, an ammoral person has no concern for morality. Personaly if i'd been in his place and in prison i would have regretted being in prison and not being good enough, smart enough, strong enough to avoid it, as apposed to considering doing things so that no one wanted to put me in prison. There are people in this world who are just plain not concerned with morality. To a point where it never enters thier mind.
 
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{Comnet Hermit}
-=Wraith Squad=-
The few, The proud, The CrAZy RAIDERS.
TRP/GSG Sniping101/4SQD/1PLT/1COM/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE [LoR][IH][BoA][CDS]

Stultior stulto fuisti, qui tabellis crederes!

I couldn't resist.  This isn't really about Saddam anymore, it's an argument over the morality of the death penalty/execution.  This debate could go on literally forever, as there are plenty of folks on both sides of the fence to keep it going.  I personally believe that in certain extreme cases, the death penalty is justified, but there are those that vehemently oppose that view, and I respect that.  When it comes down to it, this isn't a debate/issue that can be won be either side.
 
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--Am

As, I generally do, I have listened to all the pros and cons of all of your various arguments, for and against the widely varied arguments on who is right, who is wrong and who should be punished in what way, how where and when.

I have to say, I am torn. I agree with everyone.

I would normally say that I am the first person to stand up and say it is not right to kill anyone, no matter what the circumstances. But, then again, what if killing one person or a thousand or a hundred thousand, would save the same amount of friends family or countrymen on my side.

I can't honestly say one way or another how and what I would do in any given situation, unless I was there. Can any of you really? I mean, for real. Unless you were actually given authority over someone else's fate, can you really make a judgement call here, there or anywhere?

To further Amason's last post, this is a discussion best dropped. We can all go on and on about the good and the bad, but where will it end?

We all seem to be very intelligent and have very intelligent views on the subject, but I personally don't want to go on and on about what you think then I think then someone else thinks. I think we have all made very valid points that can be acknowledged by the other and now move on to new subjects.

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Grammar, mechanics, punctuation, spelling, diction, effectiveness in the science, and larger elements are the facts at hand.

We're talking about mass murder not an accident Accidents are different what Saddam did wasn't and accident.
So its ok what he did but its immoral to execute someone that killed a bunch of people.

what about all the other crazy people what they deserve to rot in prison for killing hundreds thousands Think about Hitler.

I think its Sick when you say its immoral when you execute a mass murderer You have problems if you believe that.

Letting them live is like letting the eye kill the entire body so shut up about it being immoral to execute a mass murderer.

And no bull crap OH let him live and think about what they did.

I think If they've done it over the years then he doesn't give a Crap who he killed and how many he killed.

With the drunk driver they should have license suspend and no right to drink ever again but if you willingly kill hundreds of people then you need to DIE

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EclipseSquad

TRP/PFC Jelly Bean/2SQD/2PLT/1COMP/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE/Tadath

"Only problem with my Job. I dont get to see a surprised look on your face."

Just came back from an isolated island and my brother showed me the video....

...

I don't care for the reason why he invaded his neighboring country.
I don't care why he taunt other country by saying he have advance nuke tech for military purpose (still not yet to be confirm).
I don't care why he put his own countrymen to an acid bath while making their family watch.
I don't care who/which group put the rope on his neck on the
I don't care about where the site of the execution

what pissed me off is why he did not get to finish his last chance to repent. Before he was able to finish the two lines of syahadath, they hit the switch.

I cannot say anything about his actions towards the world, for i'm no angel myself.
But to interrupt a man's time with his God,.. well that just one act of an A***ole would do.


sheesh... i wish they pull me back to that island soon


 
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Commander of Development
Master of Thorns of the unfinished division of the Army
1nd Lieutenant Dez
COD/1LT Dez/VEA/Tadath/VE[EW2][IG]
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He was praying, but I do not think that he was repenting for his actions.  I make that assumption based on his prior behavior and attitude--Saddam believed that he was completely in the right in the crimes that he committed.

And, Fury makes a good point.  The best way to get your point of view across is, is to be calm and clear.  Unnecessary aggression only serves to distance the reader, making them less likely to accept, or even entertain your reasoning.

A good fight is entertaining, but a debate gets more accomplished--atleast when words are concerned. 


 
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--Am

I believe Fury, Amason and Yoder at the least agree with me when I say this is practically a DEAD subject.

In that, I mean that the subject is DEAD, and that there is no use in beating a DEAD horse to DEATH.

To further discussion on a subject that is DEAD and over with is futile. What has happened has happened, and, it is over with.

There may be ovetones to this DEAD subject that need to be dealt with, but to me it is not a topic to continue here.
 
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Grammar, mechanics, punctuation, spelling, diction, effectiveness in the science, and larger elements are the facts at hand.

I think it's refered to as beating a dead horse...?
 
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--Am

Well for one its dead topic, number two you guys are going almost OOC here. . . .
 
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trp/pfc
-=Wraith Squad=-
Yoder/4SQD/1PLT/1COM/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE/LoR
Master Swordsmen (RL)
Flatter me, and I won't believe you.
Criticize me, and I may not like you.
Ignore me, and I may not forgive you.
Encourage me, and I won't forget you.
-Me

They are not the same.  One describes what the corpse is (namely a horse), the other is merely a redundancy.  Isn't a corpse dead?  If so then dead corpse just sounds ridiculous and doesn't tell us what is dead.
 
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WADJ, SPAC/2LT Corran "Arturus" Hargraves/SCR Doashim/VE/VEN/(=A=)(=SA=)(=*MA*=)(=JCPA=)(=SCPA=)[MC:1](x2)[SV][BRC][VC:B][CBV][LSM][LoC][BWC][SWC][GWC]


"The way of war is a way of deception. When able, feign inability; when deploying troops, appear not to be. When near, appear far; when far, appear near. Lure with bait; strike with chaos. If the enemy is full, be prepared. If strong, avoid him. If he is angry, disconcert him. If he is weak, stir him to pride. If he is relaxed, harry him; if his men are harmonious, split them. Attack where he is unprepared; appear where you are unexpected. This is victory in warfare; it cannot be divulged in advance. Victory belongs to the side that scores most in the temple calculations before battle. Most spells victory; least spells defeat; none, surer defeat. I see it in this way, and the outcome is apparent." -- Sun Tzu

"Ultimate excellence lies not in winning every battle but in defeating the enemy without ever fighting." -- Sun Tzu