I severly doubt that if actually invaded in a serious way that every person capable of resisting would rise up with arms, we got our own nut jobs without having to worry about terrorist cells.

That's right there are americans that hate the way america is and would take advantage of such a situation.  Should we fear being invaded?

Short answer: HELL NO!

To a degree yes a military even if conventional is a neccessary evil because there are far too many people who are not pacifists and unfortunately they seem to hold public office for the most part.

Then we have the fanatics, it doesn't matter what they believe but those are the most dangerous kind.

The torture thing I am not suprised about.

Americans have long had a great lack of social responsibility in the view of other nations but only now has it become front page news.

Words are not always enough and there are enough nations in this world willing to ignore sanctions for trade with other nations that it's pretty much a joke.

America wants to mak the world in it's image, want proof open up a text book on history or look at what we are trying to do in Iraq.

I think it would have taken more then just America joining the League of Nations to stop WW2, after all they did try and stop Japan by taking away the oil they were getting from America and it only got us attacked.  Maybe America doing something more to stop Germany would have helped but i doubt it, after all the world was in a major economic depression and barely out of it when WW2 started, Germany was better off because they were willing to use scapegoats and propaganda in a way that most civilized and educated people would not.

"Hindsight is 20/20."-Can't remember who but it seems appropriate
 
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Kuroishi Wraith VEA
Daishi Raptor VEN
Assistant Writer Why Project Copyright Infringment
Ich bin hessliche amerikaner.
Nehmen mir zu dein frauen von vernunftig preis tugendhafte.
"And the sound of many heads hitting many solid objects was heard throughout the land." me

That all depends on what you watch and what you read.

The book I found at the library has been checked out so even finding it's name right now is a might bit difficult, but according to that book the main factors that Japan ever did attack America was because Germany put them up to it and the oil embargo.

Japan knew they couldn't win a long term war and they hoped Pearl would bring us to the peace tables.

If Japan had just invaded the Philipines and our other outposts in the south west pacific without declaring war on America itself I don't know how we would have responded.  The best theory I can come up with is without something like Pearl Harbor, basicly  an attack that only a few people were willing to admit could happen, and on something so close to home I doubt we would have had the same reaction.

Anothe thing we can't forget is that the Germans were planning to start World War 2 in 1946.  No one is sure why they didn't commence with thier plan but it seems that it was a good thing they didn't.  With how hard of a time we had against them, try imagining it with seven more years to prepare.

Both Germany and Japan were disregarding the Washington Treaty on limiting naval power.  Germany tossed out the treaty of Versi(sp?) and no one that could stop them did.

My old manager at Pokey Jo's told me that he read Stalin's journal once and found some interesting things in it.  Stalin was hoping that Europe would just grind itself down to a point that if he could keep Russia out of the war long enough he could just swoop in and take over.

Also there was a lot of propaganda going on then.

9/11 had a worse death toll and was something only a few people were willing to admit could happen but since we don't have an easy to identify nemesis no one has gone through with rattling the right sabers to turn America into a real rampaging military machine.

We have had our moments of fanatiscism but I do not think America is currently a nation of fanatics.

Sure Saddam needed to be deposed and a lot of the Baath party needed to be gotten rid of too but it seems a poor excuse to invade Iraq when we could have just called the Isrialies and they could have accomplished the same thing with no invasion, a lot fewer losses, and a lot less political upheaval.

"History is kept in only two places: books and our minds.  Both are easily altered."-Can't remember if that's an original quote from a class mate or from someone more famous.
 
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Kuroishi Wraith VEA
Daishi Raptor VEN
Assistant Writer Why Project Copyright Infringment
Ich bin hessliche amerikaner.
Nehmen mir zu dein frauen von vernunftig preis tugendhafte.
"And the sound of many heads hitting many solid objects was heard throughout the land." me

A few good points in this so far.  First off, I agree that if Germany had waited till 1946 to start the war, they would definitely have won.  Also, the Japanese strike was intended to get the US to the peace tables, they needed our oil, and the fact that we didn't surrender forced them to rely on a rather unsure supply in Manchuria.  They would much rather have just gotten a treaty and continued ruling the far east.

As for today, have people forgotten that the reason given to invade Iraq was the WMD (Weapons of Mass Destruction)?  No matter the outcome today, that was the reason given, and we should know why it turned out to be a big load.  Seriously, if the President is making his decisions today based on information of the same quality, what kind of straights are we in?

Oh and Dai, it was the Treaty of Versailles, named after the palace of the French kings (probably the most opulent palace the world has ever seen), about 16 miles outside Paris, where the treaty itself was signed 
 
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Argon Viper
Sergeant Major/Senior Writer, VE Today
IW COL Argon Viper{ret}
Fallen Angel and Proud of It!
"History is on the move, those who cannot keep up will watch from a distance, and those who get in our way will not watch at all" - Grand Admiral Thrawn
"Condemnation does not liberate, it oppresses" - Carl G Jung

    Actually...  WW2 wouldn't have ever been brought to us if we'd done something about it...  Hitler was just looking for a reason to stop invading countries.  In fact, in his own personal writing, Hitler says that he was only trying to see how much he could gain before he was shut-down.  All the League of Nations would of had to do was make him stop...  But they kept telling him that he could have that much land and no more...  Basically, if your going to be upset with anyone, be upset with the League of Nations,(now known as the United Nations), because they didn't stop Germany right away...
    That's the main fact I know about that bit...
 
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*Flash Was Here...*
My Real Bebop: (=A=)

I actually don't know if Germany would have won if they started in 1946 and another thing that I have read about in the past is how close America actually came to joining the Germans in WW2 rather than the allies.

We didn't so it's a supressed fact of our history.

By 1946 the depresion would have been far enough into the past that the world may have actually been able to do something about stopping Germany.

Fanatasicsm, fear, greed, and desperation are the greatest causes of violence.

Which is the most common is hard to say.

Fanatasicsm covers religion, manifest destiny, basicly anything that people beleive in so absolutely that they are willing to kill for it.

Fear.  People will do a lot of things that they normally wouldn't when affraid.

Greed.  Now this one is harder to draw clear examples of because of the other categories.

Desperation.  A desperate people will do desperate things.  This is most unclear of motivators but it happens.

Hopefully this will shed some light on a few things.
 
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RA(U) Daishi COSOS
"If we had all knowladge then why would we seek what we already know and if we had no knowladge then how could we even ask the question?"  Plato
"Indeceant exposure is fun." Sonatina
"There are at least three sides to any situation." Me

Biologically, yes, fear is a very useful thing.  However, it was never meant for group situations, or to be used for a very long time.  In a related note, has anyone noticed how much the current administration is using fear to try to press it's points?

First, after 9/11, I think it should have been obvious.  "Terrorists can strike anywhere at any time", but at the same time "we should not change our lifestyle or way of life in any way".  This pretty much led to a direct attack on Afghanistan, which I can't say for sure whether or not it was a defensive or offensive action.

Then, during the run up to Iraq, they used it again.  Trust me, I've looked into the evidence the administration had, if you put it together there was nothing to make you think Iraq has weapons of mass destruction.  However, when they presented "certain parts" of it, and their own interpretation, they were able to create the fear that Iraq might have weapons of mass destruction.

Another thing I've noticed is that most people don't even realize exactly what a weapon of mass destruction is.  I mean, yeah, the mushroom cloud is easy to grasp, but most people seem to have no idea about how VX nerve gas, or anthrax work.  To them it's just a label for something that tells them "be scared now".

Anyways, that's my rant on the issue, enjoy.

Oh yeah, and word to Raz, I'm in complete agreement 
 
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Argon Viper
Sergeant Major/Senior Writer, VE Today
IW COL Argon Viper{ret}
Fallen Angel and Proud of It!
"History is on the move, those who cannot keep up will watch from a distance, and those who get in our way will not watch at all" - Grand Admiral Thrawn
"Condemnation does not liberate, it oppresses" - Carl G Jung

I agree that it's nasty, but it's not "end of the world" kind of nasty that most people think they are.  Seriously, we set off atomic blasts that destroyed two entire cities in Japan, killing over 100,000 people each, and people in the US barely noticed it.  Besides which, someone obviously failed to mention that the nations of Russia, Germany, France, the UK, China, North Korea, Israel, Pakistan, India, and even the United States have more chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons than Iraq could ever hope to amass.

The fact remains that having weapons of mass destruction is a national perogative, a precedent set by our very own nation, and in today's world (if you look at the example of North Korea), having them seems to be the only way to keep yourself safe.
 
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Argon Viper
Sergeant Major/Senior Writer, VE Today
IW COL Argon Viper{ret}
Fallen Angel and Proud of It!
"History is on the move, those who cannot keep up will watch from a distance, and those who get in our way will not watch at all" - Grand Admiral Thrawn
"Condemnation does not liberate, it oppresses" - Carl G Jung

You do! One of 'ems called Bush.
 
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Ramon Stonefish

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I have little respect or use for career politicians, any of them.

I don't think Bush is as dumb as he'd like everyone to believe.

Just ponder everything that has happened during his administration and what the effects of them were for a moment(No particular order and not all of them):

1: He's changed the way overtime works on a federal level.  I am still not clear as to how the new system works.  From what I can observe it seems to have helped big companies to cut payroll expenses.  This is both good and bad.

2: He instigated the invasion of Afghanastan on rather flimsy evidence that Osama was behind 9/11.  Despite this Osama is still responsible for several terrorist acts that should have brought the same kind of attention years ago.

3: To cover up his inability to capture Osama he instigates the invasion of Iraq.  He does try and get the UN to back us up but all they do is drag thier feet and allow Iraq time to hide or export it's WMD's.  This also serves as a very usefull distraction to the fact that we are still fighting insurgants in Afghanastan.

4: Bush is trying to use the recovering economy to distract us from the fighting in Iraq.

5: Bush plans to cut medicare expenses by computerizing the medicare system and making health care providers share information.  The cut will be significant but the cost in privacy is in debate.

6: Utilizing 9/11 Bush has managed to recind more of our rights and constitutional protections  then any president since Abraham Lincoln or FDR.
 
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Kuroishi Wraith VEA
Daishi Raptor VEN
Assistant Writer Why Project Copyright Infringment
Ich bin hessliche amerikaner.
Nehmen mir zu dein frauen von vernunftig preis tugendhafte.
"And the sound of many heads hitting many solid objects was heard throughout the land." me

He's definitely got a point.  Think about it, in the Clinton years, the only member of the cabinet you would have actually heard of would have been Al Gore, and then only to make fun of him    Clinton took all the credit and all the blame in his administration (which is what a leader is actually supposed to do).

In the Bush Administration, we hear from members of the cabinet as far down as the Undersecretary of Defense (or is State?), Paul Wolfowitz.

The fact remains that these vocal underlings are running the show as much as Bush is, more in fact, if you look at public appearances, comments on public policy and the like.

I'm still not sure whether this is a good thing or a bad thing...
 
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Argon Viper
Sergeant Major/Senior Writer, VE Today
IW COL Argon Viper{ret}
Fallen Angel and Proud of It!
"History is on the move, those who cannot keep up will watch from a distance, and those who get in our way will not watch at all" - Grand Admiral Thrawn
"Condemnation does not liberate, it oppresses" - Carl G Jung

Yeah he can get smart people to work for him, but they shouldnt be speaking for him. There is a difference.

And what makes us more capable to have WMD than the rest of the world? Not that im totally against us having them, i just wanted to throw that question out there.

Oh and ill keep what you said in mind JMac.
 
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+ Advance Recon Commandos {ARC} +
"Only Trust your Allies as much as you can Predict your Enemies."
"Do you expect me to talk?" "No Mr. Bond, i expect you to die."
"Luke, I am your Fasha."
To Nom Anor, a truly superior Yuuzhan Vong.
TRP/ASL/CPL Rema/2SQD/1PLT/1COM/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE [LoR][OPE] [AM-B][AM-S][AM-P][IH][SoA]

But look at it this way Argon, everyone blames Bush for everything already. Example: when he didn't want Condoleeza Rice to testify, democrats accused him of stonewalling and hiding something. When he finnally gave in and let her testify, the dems did their own reversal and accused him of caving in and having a weak backbone. Maybe if the librals would stop screaming at him for actually doing what they ask him to do, he might be able to actually get something done.
 
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(hits golf ball through the stargate) "So, how far away is Edura?"
"Several million light years, O'Niel."
"That's gotta be a record." (gets ready to swing golf club)
"Colonel O'Niel, what in God's name do you think you're doing?!"
"IN THE MIDDLE OF MY BACKSWING?!"

"People like you are the reason people like me take medication."  -Cool T-shirt

Woohoo, go Dai.  Not a single word I disagree with.  And Munk, the Democrats these days are doing nothing more than the Republicans did to Clinton during his term in office (and probably what the then-Democrats did to the former Bush and Raegan, and what the then-Republicans did to to Carter, though I'm not old enough to remember those), and he seemed to be able to work through it 
 
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Argon Viper
Sergeant Major/Senior Writer, VE Today
IW COL Argon Viper{ret}
Fallen Angel and Proud of It!
"History is on the move, those who cannot keep up will watch from a distance, and those who get in our way will not watch at all" - Grand Admiral Thrawn
"Condemnation does not liberate, it oppresses" - Carl G Jung

Sorry Jmac, are you saying that it is moral to make sure that you have more weapons of mass destruction than everyone else to retain an "advantage"?

Apologies if i misinterpretted that
 
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+ Advance Recon Commandos {ARC} +
PC:A/SGM/Raziel/1PLT/1COMP/1BAT/1RGT/Tadath/VEA/ {EW1} {WoS} {VP} {IG} {CDS} {BoA}
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CM/DJK Raziel/lion 1-5/Krath/VEDJ/VE

Yeah, definitely.  Also, on the list of career politicians I notice you left out such notable names as Strom Thurmund and Fred Thompson, who, up until Mr. Thurmond's death, were the two oldest senators.  Thompson still serves as the oldest.  It's probably just nitpicking, but it serves to remind people that senators on both sides have gotted old and crotchety    I do agree that they need to be replaced though 

As to the note about WMD, I'm quite sure that most nations on Earth are now noticing a strange set of events.  Iraq, a country where not a single WMD can be found, was invaded immediately on the mere suspicion of having them, while North Korea, a country that has them, has shown them to us, and has delivery systems for them, is able to bang and scream to its hearts content.

Why the mismatch?  The obvious conclusion is MAD.  If you hope to compete with the superpower, you've got to have a deterrent to prevent them from attacking you.

Iraq was attacked because it might be on the road to developing WMD.  But it hadn't yet.  North Korea is safe because it can promise to lay nuclear death if it seems to be losing.  The basic conclusion is that having WMDs is safer than not having them.

As for nuclear proliferation, we can't stop that.  It's like all knowledge; eventually everyone's going to get ahold of it.  Our job is not to stop them from getting it, but to help them get it in a way that leaves them more kindly disposed toward us, and less inclined to use them.

In that regard, I can say that we are actively failing miserably 
 
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Argon Viper
Sergeant Major/Senior Writer, VE Today
IW COL Argon Viper{ret}
Fallen Angel and Proud of It!
"History is on the move, those who cannot keep up will watch from a distance, and those who get in our way will not watch at all" - Grand Admiral Thrawn
"Condemnation does not liberate, it oppresses" - Carl G Jung