I am writing this post in answer to something that was said in Philosophy.  I am not going to lay down all of my evidence here, as that would take to long.  Rather, I will lay down the basics of my belief and give anyone the chance to shoot it full of holes.  Please, feel free to debate all that I am saying, as it will give me a chance to answer doubts.  The basic fact of life is that Jesus Christ is the messiah.  He was tyhe one perfect man ever known, and he was sent by God to redeem us and take onto himself the punishment for our sins.  He did this by living a blameless life, and then dieing in the most horrendous way imaginable.  Jesus is the only way to be saved, and he loves you. 
 
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[army] Fishman
FM/LCRW JMac/Aegis 3-4/Aegis 12/(=A=)
"I know life isn't fair, but why can't it ever be unfair in my favor?."
"Eagles may soar, but weasels never get sucked into jet engines."
Tall, dark, handsome, and all around stud.

Wasn't this question answered in a Monty Python movie?
 
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His fate was destined to a foreign strand,
A petty fortress and a "humble" hand;
He left the name at which the world grew pale,
To paint a moral, or adorn a tale.
--- Johnson for Charles of Sweden

He's right, don't be offended by my opinion here I am an athiest, and as such, I don't believe that Jesus Christ was a messiah. In fact, I believe he was a man named Jeshua Ben Joseph who had an inflated idea of his own importance that grew as his influence did(you'll notice he started off as a mere prophet, and then worked his way up to "son of God"). I believe in the biological meaning of life, to create more life(anyone who disagrees hasn't taken biology, the body of any creature is centered on their ability to reproduce). However, the Buddhist view of the meaning of life is starting to look rather interesting. Anyways, if you're looking to convert some people to you're point of view, offer some proof(the bible doesn't count as it was written by the people who founded the religion in the first place.  Also, I'm reading it, and it's not even very convincing...). I've presented proof, real, back-up-able("That's not even a word..." "Do you know what I meant?" "Yes" "Then it's a word") proof, and before I believe that a man who died almost two thousand years ago is going to come back to life and save everything in the world, I'm going to need just a little bit more proof. If this wasn't an attempt to convert people, just read my top argument and ignore the following part  Enjoy
 
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Argon Viper
"History is on the move, those who cannot keep up will watch from a distance, and those who get in our way will not watch at all" - Grand Admiral Thrawn
"He who knows his enemy, needs not fear confrontation" - Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
"Insanity is not a mental condition, it's a way of life" - Argon Viper
"Those who run from death, win little.  Those who simply live their lives, win much" - Argon Viper

Oh heck yeah!!!  Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is awesome    Now if only I could find the other books... 
 
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Argon Viper
"History is on the move, those who cannot keep up will watch from a distance, and those who get in our way will not watch at all" - Grand Admiral Thrawn
"He who knows his enemy, needs not fear confrontation" - Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
"Insanity is not a mental condition, it's a way of life" - Argon Viper
"Those who run from death, win little.  Those who simply live their lives, win much" - Argon Viper

JMac, I used to be a good christian boy. Then I desided I wanted to go out and see what else there was.....I understand you fully. But I also agree with DH, the VE is not a place for missionarys. It is a group of Star Wars lovers that are to bored to do anything but sit around and chat. There are not many people that will put up with missionarys and such trying to preach to them. I am just warning you, be carefull.
 
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Owner And Pilot Of The Skipray Boat "Starscream" Astral Guard Member Lusthawk Ten
FM/SRCRW Rukh/Aegis 3-2/1/mSSD Atrus/VE/VE/[=A=][=SA=] Dillon "Rukh" Lazar
TRN/IN Rukh/VCF Deathscythe/VEDJ/VE Dillon "Phoenix" Lazar
Aegis Squadron Flight Three Member Two

I din't start this to be a missionary, I started it based on something said in Philosophy.  I am doing this to spark a debate, not to preach.  If someone feels insulted by the topic of the debate, they don't need to read it.  I know the VE is for Star Wars, that's why I try to be active in the Storynet, etc.  The lounge is for things not related to the VE, so I figure this is an okay place to hold this debate.
 
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[army] Fishman
FM/LCRW JMac/Aegis 3-4/Aegis 12/(=A=)
"I know life isn't fair, but why can't it ever be unfair in my favor?."
"Eagles may soar, but weasels never get sucked into jet engines."
Tall, dark, handsome, and all around stud.

        The bible is actually a very reliable source of information on the life and times of Jesus Christ.  We know this by using a few different methods.  We can verify when the bible was written using documents that have been found.  Those, along with the archeological evidence that has been found, point to a date from between 30 AD and 50AD.  This means that the gospels were in circulation during the lifetimes of the men that were there.  If the stories of the life of Jesus were not true, then Christianity would have been defrauded right away and would never have gotten off the ground.  Instead of that, Christianity grew rapidly to become one of the most influential forces in history.  Therefore, the stories of his life and death had to be fairly accurate.     But what about the resurrection.  We know all about his death, and not just through the bible.  But how do we know that he was risen from the dead?  All we need do is look at the apostles.  11 of the 12 apostles died a martyr’s death by proclaiming that they had seen Jesus risen from the dead.  Who would die for a lie?  Don’t get me wrong, many men have died for lies before.  But they all died believing it was true.  It would be very hard to mistake seeing someone risen from the dead repeatedly appear to groups of men.  Men have died for causes before that they felt were right, but for them their causes were in sight.  Who would die for the sake of a lost cause that Jesus would have been had he not been risen.     There is also the prophesies that predicted the coming of the messiah.  There are over 300 prophesies regarding the coming of the messiah in the Koran.  Jesus was the only man that has fulfilled all of them.  No one else has even come close.  In fact, there is currently a $1,000 reward offered by Christian Victory Publishing Company for anyone that can find a person other then Jesus who fulfilled just half of them.  There have been no takers.                 Here you go, you asked for proof, this is some of it. 
 
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[army] Fishman
FM/LCRW JMac/Aegis 3-4/Aegis 12/(=A=)
"I know life isn't fair, but why can't it ever be unfair in my favor?."
"Eagles may soar, but weasels never get sucked into jet engines."
Tall, dark, handsome, and all around stud.

I haven't read every single post here. In fact, I just read the first post on this subject.  I would just like to point out that there are many debates on whether what religion is better than the other. The truth of the matter is: There is no better religion than the other. Every culture has their own religion.  Every culture believes something that the other does not.  I'm a Christian, so I believe that Jesus Christ did come in the past, and he died for all of our sins.  An Athiest would say otherwise, because he/she does not believe in any god at all. So, there really shouldn't be any conflict or debate in the world about what religion is best or is the most truthful.  The truth is: People have their own choices. People believe what they want to believe, and that's perfectly fine. 
 
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Captain Cosmic
Commander of Training
[OPE][OTH][OPA][IH][CDS][EW1][IOC]
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CO/SL/DJK Cosmic/Lion 1-1/mSSD Atrus/VEDJ/VE [VP][KC1]
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/me jumps onto the scene and cries his battle call: "I AM.... SUPER ATHEIST!" and I shall return.
 
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TRP/1PFC GM_Sniper/4SQD/1PLT/1COMP/1BAT/Tadath/VEA {LoR}

First of all, I am not forcing my religion on thers.  This is a free zone, so we are allowed o post whatever we like.  i opened a new thing for this specifically so that no one that doesn't feel like coming in here has to.  if you do not like the topic, do not read it.  If you are curious or just feel like arguing, come on in. Now let me adress the rest that has been said here: Joccaim, you are right, Jesus is a spiritual being that is not limited in the mind alone.  And the bible does say to live through faith.  however, I do not think that faith should be totally blind.  if you want to choose a general, you look at all the candidates, check their history, verify the authenticity of the claims, then you choose the greatesdt one and put your faith in his ability to protect you.  At least, that is the way I see it. Now then, Sniper, let me couter what you said.  The main thing that the Christian faith revolves on is the bible.  (Note I said faith, not religion, I find that religion is typivcally flawed by the pride of man, so I am a strict biblical evangelical that does not believe human tradition.)  Yesd, oral tradition does have a way of enlarging things.  in fact many scientists believed that the bible had to be inaccurate because of it.  Then they found all of the original documents, save the first 6 that Moses wrote that were lost in the Arc of the covenant.  They found them in various digs, the most recent being the dead sea scrolls.  yet how can we know that the bible is true?  We look at several sources.  First of all there is all the artifacts that say that biblical stories are true.  They found and dated Noah's ark.  In fact, there are several geological sites that point through ground layers and fossils that have been found to say that the world was at one point totally covered in water.  Scientists have found fragments of egyptian chariots at the bottom of the Red Sea.  The bible spoke of many civilizations that historians scoffed at untill they recently, (within the last hundred years), found evidence of.  And of course there is always all the biblical prophesy that came true.  All the biblical prophesy came true, save the prophesys regarding the second and third coming of jesus at the end of this world.  Pretty good for prophesy made thousands of years before the fact. There is always Josephus, a Jewish historian that lived in the time of Jesus.  Let me repeat, this man was NOT a Christian, he was an orthodoxz jew.  Anyway, he kept a history of the Jews at that time.  He did not write specifically about Jesus for the most part.  Most of what he wrote was this law was passed at this date by this ruler.  He did record events, however.  For instance, he wrote about the bright star that heralded the birth of Christ.  he wrote about the three kings from afar that came to find Jesus.  He wrote about how Herod ordered all babies killed.  Etc.  etc. There are also the surviving Roman records.  We know that the birth of Jesus occured right at the time of the star because his parents had gone to town to be counted in the census.  So really, we have a lot to authenticate the bible. Now, about the church.  Many churches have developed their own ideas about religion.  I find many of them to be wrong for me, but I guess they are right for others.  In the medieval times, however, the ignorance of the public allowed many evil men to slip into church robes and take advantage of their faith.  Just because they said they were men of God, doesn't make them men of God, no more then most TV preachers that wear $1000 dollar suits are men of God.  Anyway, as a final note, (for now),  I agree with Cosmic.  Everyone must choose their own path.  I am not trying to force my beleifs on anyone, I put this up merely for anyone that wants to talk.
 
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[army] Fishman
FM/LCRW JMac/Aegis 3-4/Aegis 12/(=A=)(MC1)
"I know life isn't fair, but why can't it ever be unfair in my favor?."
"Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
Tall, dark, handsome, and all around stud.

I totally agree with you, and I'm not in any way saying that you're pushing Christianity on others. I'll make that clear. I know you're not pushing it on anyone else, I'm just saying as a general warning NOT to push your bliefs on others. NOW THEN, as far as the bible: sure, you've got scrolls and testimonies and all sortsa stuff, but was the bible written BY GOD? Is it a true and authentic peice of writing tossed to the earth FROM GOD? I think not. What are the prophecies that came true about the second and third coming of Jesus? I'd be interested to know.
 
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TRP/1PFC GM_Sniper/4SQD/1PLT/1COMP/1BAT/Tadath/VEA {LoR}

Ah. I read that wrong. My mistake. Interesting point about the Nuke...but then again, nuclear weapons should be banned anyway...wait...wrong post!
 
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TRP/1PFC GM_Sniper/4SQD/1PLT/1COMP/1BAT/Tadath/VEA {LoR}

Come on Raz, you're forgetting the point that no one knows what the length of a day actually is for a Judeo-Christian version of God. Seven days could've easily lasted a couple billion years.  I had one old preacher tell us that we are actually living in day seven and when God is done resting, he'll deal with us as he sees fit. That's an easy way to bog this discussion down. Anyway, I prolly spend as much time between both different Old/New testament books, the Apochrypha, the Koran, and the occasional peak at the Book of Mormom as I do the few pieces of Eastern writings I own...which is, maybe not as much as I should.  Either way, no religion goes forth without some form of divinely inspired human botched literature.  We crave rules to go with our inspiration.  I mean, even the Satanists have a book, wouldn't it have been easier for them to just go counter the Bible? So, whatever religion you adhere to or not, just try not to convert anybody.  Nobody is wrong, and the only way to actually prove you are correct is to die and see if there is an encore to the game of life.  So, be calm, don't take anything personally and enjoy. And don't be so defensive people or give others a reason to be. The only problem with JMac's original post I have (and my original reason for posting) is the idea of Jesus Christ as a perfect human.  To my thinking, the whole point of his mission to Earth was to prove how imperfect a person could be, but still live a good life.  If he was perfect, where is the object lesson.  The story of Jesus tells me that I can be surrounded by women, even prostitutes, and not fall into a life of sin.  Or that I can have power without developing an ego kick, turning any old rock into a fish just to skip out on buying food or something.  In fact, the only huge personal flaw I ever saw in the whole concept was raising old Lazarus from the dead.  If that ever proved anything, it was that when your own friends are on the chopping block, you'll do anything to save their butts.  Now if THAT isn't being a petty, small human, what is?
 
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XO/LTC Fury/VEA/TADATH/VE [SotE:HC][SotE:VEA][IOC]
Company Commander
Shopkeeper - Imperial Center

Fury, there is big problem with your idea that Jesus was just a good guy.  He said that he was God.  That eliminates that possability, and leaves only 3 others.  That he was nuts, that he was a blasphemer that craved power, or that he was God.
 
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[army] Fishman
FM/LCRW JMac/Aegis 3-4/Aegis 12/(=A=)(MC1)
"I know life isn't fair, but why can't it ever be unfair in my favor?."
"Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
Tall, dark, handsome, and all around stud.

The bible uses both literal and figurative language.  It is fairly simple to know.  If it says something like "a pale horse and a pale rider, and the riders name was death, and hell followed on his heels" you can be sure that it is speaking figuratively.  If it says that Jesus raised himself from the dead, that is fauirly point blank.  Also, you can tell that the bible is true by the prophesy.  Every prophesy that the bible has made, save the ones about the end of the world (which haven't happened yet, came true!!!  Pretty good for a book that was written "to try to bring some meaning to their lives".  This book is the real deal.  It has been proved correct time and time again. 
 
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[army] Fishman
FM/LCRW JMac/Aegis 3-4/Aegis 12/(=A=)(MC1)
"I know life isn't fair, but why can't it ever be unfair in my favor?."
"Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
Tall, dark, handsome, and all around stud.