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Topic:  History
chipmunk man
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  RE: History
March 25, 2004 6:26:39 AM    View the profile of chipmunk man 
      Howdy folks. I have no idea if this will interest any of you, but I couldn't resist the urge to post it anyway. The other night my Civil War group was graced by the presence of a political scientist, a historian, and the former head of Millersville University's history department as we hosted a public debate among these three gentlemen. The subject of the debate was supposed to be former president James Buchanan vs. his political rival Thadeus Stevens, both of whom where from our area. However, it turned out to be mostly a discussion of James Buchanan's accomplishments, a comparison between him and Lincoln, and a debate on the legality of secession. I've given a quick overview for you here.
     
      The part that sticks out in my mind most was how the idea was put forward that there have been three kinds of presidents. The "constitutional president" exercises only the powers that he has been specifically given by the constitution, and does not go further than that. James Buchanan was this sort of president. He made a speech (which unfortunately the gentlemen did not name) in which he stated that while he believed that secession was unconstitutional, he had no power to stop it (remember, he has not been told be the constitution that he can do that). However, we have to examples of precedent that might indicate that he could have. One is during the South Carolina Nullification Crisis, in which that state on South Carolina tried to nullify a federal tariff. Andrew Jackson prepared to take troops in and force them to pay the tariff, and the Carolinians backed down. Second is the Whiskey Rebellion of 1794. Whiskey farmers from Western Pennsylvania revolted against a tax on whiskey, tarring and feathering and burning the homes of the tax collectors. President Washington took national troops to stop the revolt, and the revolt was put down after a standoff between the farmers and the troops. Thus, Jackson and Washington could be considered the next category. But the point of these examples was to show that yes, Buchanan probably had the power to stop the secession by precedent. But Lincoln, as the first of the last group I'm going to mention, completely rearranged American politics and caused the constitutional presidents to become an extinct group.

      The second group is the "stewardship president," and these performed whatever power was not specifically denied them by the constitution. As I said, Washington and Jackson were this type, along with probably most of the presidents.

      Lincoln was a "prerogative president," meaning that he did whatever he felt necessary for the good of the country, even if it meant fudging and breaking the constitution from time to time. A good example of Lincoln ignoring the constitution is how he locked up several leaders of the state of Maryland to prevent the state government form considering whether or not to secede as well. If Maryland had joined the Confederacy, Washington D.C. would have found itself in the middle of enemy territory, and Lincoln was determined to prevent this at all costs. So instead of following due process, and without even suspicion of a crime, Lincoln had the leaders imprisoned to prevent their voting. And that is something expressly prohibited by the constitution.

      Another issue that came up was whether or not Buchanan was gay. He was the country's only bachelor president, and for years showed little interest in courting. However, there is a certain incident that often seems to be overlooked: the fact that Buchanan was once engaged. In the late 1828, Buchanan was engaged to a young lady named Anne Coleman. Now, Buchanan at this time was still a struggling young lawyer, and Anne was the daughter of a wealthy iron master. Mr. Coleman, a poor immigrant who married his bosses daughter to become one of the wealthiest men in the Pennsylvania (I'm sure some of you have seen the Coleman camping products, it's the same company), thought that Buchanan was only after Anne's money and so disapproved of the engagement. When Buchanan was sent on a long business trip to Philadelphia, Anne thought that he wasn't sending her as much mail as he ought to be. It turns out that her parents were actually intercepting the letters. When Buchanan returned he stopped at his bosses home to discuss the case, but his boss's niece happened to be visiting, and word got to Anne that Buchanan had stopped to see another woman before coming to see her. She broke the engagement and went to visit her sister and brother-in-law in Philadelphia. While there she was prescribed laudanum as an antidepressant, although it is also very toxic in large quantities. We don't know if her death was accident or suicide, but Anne died of a laudanum overdose. Buchanan was devastated when he heard the news, and wrote a long letter to Mr. Coleman, telling how much he had loved Anne and asking permission to walk in the funeral as a mourner (in those days you had to be invited). The letter was returned unopened. Buchanan would later write that he could not marry because his heart had been buried in the grave.

      Okay, that's all I have time for. Hope you guys enjoyed, and I'm happy to answer questions on history in general, though my specialty is the American Civil War.

 
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"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstien

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[This message has been edited by chipmunk man (edited March 25, 2004 6:29:22 AM)]
chipmunk man
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  RE: History
April 23, 2004 6:29:39 AM    View the profile of chipmunk man 
No proplem Shaz. Any other questions on the Civil War, just let me now. But yeah, Stonewall was hated. If you read other accounts of him, he was a gloomy jerk who wore his hat in his eyes and sucked on lemon slices. He drove his men like a slave driver, and was generally rude to others. But he got the job done better than any of Lee's other generals, which is why he's been immortalized by revisionists.

Another problem with Gods and Generals is that they tried to make it really dramatic. It's almost as if they wanted every line to be a major speech. A much better movie was Gettysburg, but that has several inaccuracies too. Buster Kilrain was fictional, and Chamberlain never would have reported to Hancock, let alone lecture him on friendships during a war. But it is in general far better than Gods and "Jackson" (heh, that's what one of my units has nicknamed it ).
 
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"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstien

"You tell 'em I'm coming, and Hell's coming with me! You hear? Hell's coming with me!" -Kurt Russel in Tombstone

"People like you are the reason people like me take medication." -Cool T-shirt

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Shazam
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  RE: History
April 23, 2004 9:17:22 AM    View the profile of Shazam 
I've got one for you...  If Gettysburg was caused because they needed shoes, then how can it be one of the biggest battles of the war.  Where did all these people come from.  Our teachers are basically overveiwing the war right now.
 
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chipmunk man
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  RE: History
April 25, 2004 9:38:20 AM    View the profile of chipmunk man 
      That actually tends to be a bit of a sticky subject, with a lot of historians disagreeing. Supposedly, Harry Heth (Confederate General) went to Gettysburg to capture the shoes from a shoe factory in town. The problem with that is that other confederate units had already been through the town and had stripped it clean. Heth new from a scout the day before that Union troops under General Buford held the town. It's more likely that Heth used the shoes as an excuse to pick a fight with Buford.

      Gettysburg was also the county seat of Adams County, so there were roads that connected it to all the other major cities, sort of like spokes in a wagon wheel. That made it the obvious point for any army to concentrate forces. So once Heth and Buford reported contact with the enemy, it was an easy enough matter for both armies to send every man they had towards the town.

(Heh, Gettysburg happens to be my specialty. )
 
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"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstien

"You tell 'em I'm coming, and Hell's coming with me! You hear? Hell's coming with me!" -Kurt Russel in Tombstone

"People like you are the reason people like me take medication." -Cool T-shirt

FL/PO2 Chipmunk Man/Kaph 3-1/Phoenix/mSSD Atrus/DEF/VEN/VE/(=A=)[LoC][MC:1]
blah909
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  RE: History
April 28, 2004 6:17:49 AM    View the profile of blah909 
*restrains from killer political slam*
go butler, and chamberlain. (fought at gettysburg)
 
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blah909/Crewman in Kaph Squadron
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chipmunk man
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  RE: History
April 28, 2004 6:36:33 AM    View the profile of chipmunk man 
Butler who? Can't think of anyone by that name at Gettysburg off the top of my head... Not General Butler the Butcher? He was running around Louisiana or there abouts. And did you know that the Gettysburg Park Service may actually have the position markers for the 20th Maine (Chamberlain's regiment) in the wrong spots? Now that's a good story...
 
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(hits golf ball through the stargate) "So, how far away is Edura?"
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"People like you are the reason people like me take medication."  -Cool T-shirt
[This message has been edited by chipmunk man (edited April 30, 2004 6:24:51 AM)]
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