Japheth
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RE: Deep thought...
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August 13, 2002
4:04:37 AM
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What would happen if you put a lightsaber blade up to a mirror?
Would it burn through? Would it get reflected and end at the appropriate length?
Something else entirly?
Have fun. ----------------------- Rear Admiral Japheth Cappadocious, Krath Priest
Naval Executive Officer
Headmaster of the Dark Jedi Order Academy
-----------------------
NXO/RAD Japheth Cappadocious/NHC-2/ISD-II Devastator/VEN/VE/(=SA=)(=SCPA=)(=FCO=)[BRC][MC:1][KC]
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Bear
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RE: Deep thought...
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August 13, 2002
6:11:21 AM
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My theory is that lightsabers have a strong surge of power emitting from them, but this power is evenly spread around the atmousphere where the saber is situated. This means that the power is diluted, so it in itself can not break through a mirror. The power IN the actual lightsaber is concentrated, as opposed to diluted, which is why things tend to break when you put a lightsaber against something.
This theory is shown most obviously in Episode II: The Clone Wars. First, when the Jedi hold their sabers, the power emitting from them is not enough to break an extremely thin mirror-like object very close by - in this case, the Jedi's retina's in their eyes.
Looking at Samuel L Jacksons bald head is another example. The power, if concentrated, would easily penetrate his skull - however, because it is diluted, I doubt he will get more than radiation poisoning.
You asked ----------------------- Captain Aaron "Bear" Le'pue, Naval Instructor & VE Today Chief Editor
~~~
INS/CAP Aaron "Bear" Le'pue/Flight School/Training Fleet/ISD II Crusader/VEN/VE (=A=) (=SA=) (=MA=) (=FOCE=) (=JCPA=) (=SCPA=) [BRC] [BRC] [LSM] [LoC] [NDM]
~~~
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Bear
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RE: Deep thought...
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August 13, 2002
6:14:53 AM
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Oh, and to answer the question:
No, it would not burn through, for two reasons.
Firstly, the diluted power theory.
Secondly, the fact that mirrors are coated in a very thin layer of silver-oxide, a component which is found in battle droids. In Episode II, the droids were not damaged until the lightsaber touched them - therefore, unless the mirror itself was touched by the saber, there would be no damage.
Oh, and why do I have such a big head? I got my exam results today - a C for Chemistry ----------------------- Captain Aaron "Bear" Le'pue, Naval Instructor & VE Today Chief Editor
~~~
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Riel Fury
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RE: Deep thought...
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August 13, 2002
11:52:30 AM
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.........42 ----------------------- Rear Admiral Riel Fury
Navy Commander In Chief
Krath Prophet(ess), Dark Lord of the Krath, Cult Member in Elite Griffen Sect
Give in to your hatred. Give in to your anger. Give in to the Dark Side.
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Daishi
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RE: Deep thought...
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August 13, 2002
1:58:31 PM
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Considering as I understand it a lightsaber is a device which causes a beam of light to bend back in on itself, thus givin it it's cutting power, it would burn through the mirror before reflecting off of it.
Next increadibly wierd Star Wars question for the guru(at least until Donitz shows up again).
----------------------- RA(U) Daishi COSOS
"If we had all knowladge then why would we seek what we already know and if we had no knowladge then how could we even ask the question?" Plato
"Indeceant exposure is fun." Sonatina
"There are at least three sides to any situation." Me
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Riel Fury
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RE: Deep thought...
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August 13, 2002
3:05:57 PM
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I beg to differ, oh genius. A lightsaber isn't light at all. It casts a shadow (as you can tell in RotJ), which leads me to believe it is actually a controlled beam of pure energy. ----------------------- Rear Admiral Riel Fury
Navy Commander In Chief
Krath Prophet(ess), Dark Lord of the Krath, Cult Member in Elite Griffen Sect
Give in to your hatred. Give in to your anger. Give in to the Dark Side.
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Argon Viper
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RE: Deep thought...
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August 13, 2002
3:09:48 PM
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A beam of energy eh? In that case, it would simply burn through the mirror, they don't reflect energy ----------------------- Argon Viper
IW COL Argon Viper{ret}
"History is on the move, those who cannot keep up will watch from a distance, and those who get in our way will not watch at all" - Grand Admiral Thrawn
"In combat, second place is only the last to die."- Anonymous
"Condemnation does not liberate, it oppresses" - Carl G Jung
"The only thing that will never change is that everything will change" - Argon Viper
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Japheth
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RE: Deep thought...
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August 13, 2002
4:40:40 PM
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When I said 'up to a mirror' I ment basicly taking a stab at it.
Light is energy. ----------------------- Rear Admiral Japheth Cappadocious, Krath Priest
Naval Executive Officer
Headmaster of the Dark Jedi Order Academy
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NXO/RAD Japheth Cappadocious/NHC-2/ISD-II Devastator/VEN/VE/(=SA=)(=SCPA=)(=FCO=)[BRC][MC:1][KC]
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Corran
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RE: Deep thought...
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August 13, 2002
5:40:37 PM
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I reckon that it would burn through the mirror as it is just a beam of energy which emits light. ----------------------- Second Lieutenant Corran
VE Today Deputy Editor
Proud owner of a [Gold Star for Observation]
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Raziel
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RE: Deep thought...
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August 13, 2002
5:55:00 PM
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Well where i've seen it, it's been said it's made of arc wave energy. I dont believe it is actually made of light, but it just gives off a small amount of light as a by-product. ----------------------- SL/SGMTRaziel/4SQD/1COMP/1BAT/1RGT/Tadath/VEA/ {EW1} {WoS} {VP}
Squad Leader - Squad4 Wraiths
"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989.
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Bear
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RE: Deep thought...
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August 14, 2002
5:20:23 AM
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Light bulbs give off heat as a by-product..
Which leads me to believe..
Maybe, hundreds of years ago, when the first saber was invented.. it was invented by a bored interior-designer (probably a very very camp one) who thought "You know what would go well with these pink scatter cushions?! A beam of pure light!" so he got to work on a saber. After it was finished, it sat in the corner of his room for years lighting it up, until one day.. burglars broke in. After stealing the scatter cushions, they held a blaster to his head, about to shoot him, and, thinking fast, the interior designer grabbed his light saber, swung it round and.. sliced off the burglars head. "Phwoar!" Interior Designer Obi-Wan Kanobi said, "This could be used as a weapon!". So then, to cut a long story short, he became a Jedi.
A bit far fetched, maybe ----------------------- Captain Aaron "Bear" Le'pue, Naval Instructor & VE Today Chief Editor
~~~
INS/CAP Aaron "Bear" Le'pue/Flight School/Training Fleet/ISD II Crusader/VEN/VE (=A=) (=SA=) (=MA=) (=FOCE=) (=JCPA=) (=SCPA=) [BRC] [BRC] [LSM] [LoC] [NDM]
~~~
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Snake
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RE: Deep thought...
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August 14, 2002
1:06:23 PM
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ok, firsto fo all, look at lasers, those are concentrated light, so the only way to get the laser to bend back on itself would be to put a gravity well at some point relativly close to the beam. now when an interdictor cruiser is close by a fighters beams don't bend. even a low power beam like a sporting blaster isn't bent by the force of a planetary mass, even a mass the size of bespin. to pull the light back in an arc you would need a gravitational mass on par with a black hole. this would have to be at some point directly behing the emitter for the blade to remain straight. If you put a black hole in the hilt of your saber with a horizon of say 2 meters, which would create a very long blade, you would have approximatly the force of the entire Maw concentrated into something at most 10 cm in diameter. that would suck everything, incuding the user and the handle in on it, collapsing the handle and then putting the now crumpled device in your stomach the instant it was activated.
I don't know if plasma can be bent, but it makes more sense for the blade to be made of plasma, and it is quite obvous plasma gives off light, look at the sun. the only plasma issue is that it also gives off heat, which lightsabers don't. It also couldn't be light on the concentration scale of a laser, because that creates ozone, and lightsabers have never been said to cause the air to change to ozone. in the novels, i know at least one reference has been made to the smell of ozone in the air after a firefight. so now we know it is neither plasma nor light.
I say it is some combination of the two known only to the star wars universe. nothing ever said they have the same rules of energy and elemental tables as we do. ----------------------- SGM Snake
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Snake
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RE: Deep thought...
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August 14, 2002
1:11:56 PM
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ok, firsto fo all, look at lasers, those are concentrated light, so the only way to get the laser to bend back on itself would be to put a gravity well at some point relativly close to the beam. now when an interdictor cruiser is close by a fighters beams don't bend. even a low power beam like a sporting blaster isn't bent by the force of a planetary mass, even a mass the size of bespin. to pull the light back in an arc you would need a gravitational mass on par with a black hole. this would have to be at some point directly behing the emitter for the blade to remain straight. If you put a black hole in the hilt of your saber with a horizon of say 2 meters, which would create a very long blade, you would have approximatly the force of the entire Maw concentrated into something at most 10 cm in diameter. that would suck everything, incuding the user and the handle in on it, collapsing the handle and then putting the now crumpled device in your stomach the instant it was activated.
I don't know if plasma can be bent, but it makes more sense for the blade to be made of plasma, and it is quite obvous plasma gives off light, look at the sun. the only plasma issue is that it also gives off heat, which lightsabers don't. It also couldn't be light on the concentration scale of a laser, because that creates ozone, and lightsabers have never been said to cause the air to change to ozone. in the novels, i know at least one reference has been made to the smell of ozone in the air after a firefight. so now we know it is neither plasma nor light.
I say it is some combination of the two known only to the star wars universe. nothing ever said they have the same rules of energy and elemental tables as we do.
other proof that it is pure energy of some sort, the only fuel a lightsaber uses is electricity, and the elecrticity is focused through a crystal, or series of crystals, into a beam. there is no light emitter, and maybe i'm misteaken, but if you run an electrical charge throught a crystal it doesn't emit light. This must be a beam of energy by the time it reaches the crystal, otherwise it would act as a conductor or fuse, not a lens
so it is a new form of pure energy ----------------------- SGM Snake
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Daishi
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RE: Deep thought...
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August 14, 2002
5:53:38 PM
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Here we go again applying real world physics to something that obviously does no follow real world physics.
I could be wrong about the light thing but that is what my admittidly faulty memory recalls from the Star Wars Technical Read Out, unfortunately that is over at Geist's right now so I can't refference it.
The shodows in RotJ come from the fact that the props they used during the lightsaber battle had blades on them so that they could coerograph the fight.
Next. ----------------------- RA(U) Daishi COSOS
"If we had all knowladge then why would we seek what we already know and if we had no knowladge then how could we even ask the question?" Plato
"Indeceant exposure is fun." Sonatina
"There are at least three sides to any situation." Me
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Japheth
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RE: Deep thought...
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August 14, 2002
6:14:22 PM
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The only cannoical sources for Star Wars are the movies, novellizations and radio plays. Thus since lightsabers are seen to cast shadows in the movies, that is part of the 'reality' of Star Wars. ----------------------- Rear Admiral Japheth Cappadocious, Krath Priest
Naval Executive Officer
Headmaster of the Dark Jedi Order Academy
-----------------------
NXO/RAD Japheth Cappadocious/NHC-2/ISD-II Devastator/VEN/VE/(=SA=)(=SCPA=)(=FCO=)[BRC][MC:1][KC]
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Jubei Nimiichi
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RE: Deep thought...
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August 15, 2002
12:13:36 AM
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umm can i ask why you guys have this much time to spend answering a question which it is obvious everyone has a different theory?????? ----------------------- §è®gèåñ† Jubèî Ñîmîîçhî
®ÅÎÐÈ®§ §QÛÅÐ: Army of the Vast Empire
Master of the "Way of the Juu" 
SGT Jubei Nimiichi/TRP7/3SQD  /1PLT/1COM/1BAT/1RGT/  / VEA/ VE
"Being challenged is inevitable...Being defeated is optional" -unknown
"We may have to fight a battle more than once to win it" -unknown
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Riel Fury
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RE: Deep thought...
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August 15, 2002
2:34:44 AM
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took the words right out of my mouth, Japheth.
the canonical evidence shows clearly that lightsabers have shadows, therefore, they do. light doesn't give a shadow, it creates shadows in other objects, so the lightsaber being made of light is out of the question. A solid beam of energy is more likely due to the fact that it *could* cast a shadow.
Note: Heat is not a byproduct of light. A lightsaber cauterizes when it cuts, due to the heat. Therefore there is more evidence that it is not simply light. ----------------------- Rear Admiral Riel Fury
Navy Commander In Chief
Krath Prophet(ess), Dark Lord of the Krath, Cult Member in Elite Griffen Sect
Give in to your hatred. Give in to your anger. Give in to the Dark Side.
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Sabre
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RE: Deep thought...
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August 15, 2002
12:44:12 AM
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But lasers cauterize as well and they are just light. Lasers might not give off that much heat, but due to the fact that all the photons in a laser are highly energized and operating at the same wavelength, when a laser comes in contact with living tissue, the tissue absorbs the energy from the oscillating photons and heats up to rather high temperatures, thus cauterizing them. Lightsabers could have a similar effect. ----------------------- ADJ:NXO/FL/WO2 Gathon 'Sabre'/Kaph 3-1/Phoenix Wing/mSSD Atrus/DEF/VEN/VE (=A=)(=SA=)
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Daishi
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RE: Deep thought...
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August 15, 2002
1:04:56 PM
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Actually light can cast a shadow sometimes.
Star Wars seems to actually allow for some real world physics when it will make the story seem more fantastic so here is the explanation(/me waits for Geist to pop out of the wood work): When one source of light encounters another source of light on a different frequency some of the light of the first source is blocked out, thus causing a shadow. The second source of light would have to be actually more powerfull then the first, so in our scenario we got a standard lighting fixture and a lightbeam powerfull enough to cut through thick solid objects in a relativly short time compared to real world lasers.
Another anomally that suggests lightsabers cast light and not plasma or some sort of energy is the fact that the color of the gems used in the construction of the saber have a direct effect on the color of the blade. This suggests that the blade is indeed light, for plasma is colored by atmospheric gases, or a type of energy that exibits light like properties.
Next.
-----------------------
RA(U) Daishi COSOS
"If we had all knowladge then why would we seek what we already know and if we had no knowladge then how could we even ask the question?" Plato
"Indeceant exposure is fun." Sonatina
"There are at least three sides to any situation." Me
[This message has been edited by
Daishi
(edited August 15, 2002
1:17:35 PM)]
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Japheth
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RE: Deep thought...
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August 15, 2002
4:03:47 PM
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Again, we have no way of knowing that, because while the gems are mentioned as part of cannoical lightsabers, we never -see- someone putting a given gem into a lightsaber and getting a blade that is the same color as that gem. For all we know Luke could have put a ruby of some kind into his lightsaber and still have gotten a green blade. ----------------------- Rear Admiral Japheth Cappadocious, Krath Priest
Naval Executive Officer
Headmaster of the Dark Jedi Order Academy
-----------------------
NXO/RAD Japheth Cappadocious/NHC-2/ISD-II Devastator/VEN/VE/(=SA=)(=SCPA=)(=FCO=)[BRC][MC:1][KC]
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Raziel
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RE: Deep thought...
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August 15, 2002
5:36:47 PM
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Thats a good point, is it actually the colour of the gems or the size and shape that determins the colour of the blade?
The best scientific attempt at guessing what could make a lightsaber was a contained plasmoid. A field of somekind that allowed solid objects to pass through it and be destroyed by the plasma within. Then again from the films etc this cant be what they intend in Star Wars ----------------------- SL/SGMTRaziel/4SQD/1COMP/1BAT/1RGT/Tadath/VEA/ {EW1} {WoS} {VP}
Squad Leader - Squad4 Wraiths
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Argon Viper
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RE: Deep thought...
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August 15, 2002
6:57:08 PM
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Actually it does give off heat. If you read the "Dark Tide" duology or whatever it's called in the NJO, Corran sets his lightsaber close to his skin and boils and cracks it in a plan that sets two people loose from Yuzzhan Vong pain devices. ----------------------- Argon Viper
IW COL Argon Viper{ret}
"History is on the move, those who cannot keep up will watch from a distance, and those who get in our way will not watch at all" - Grand Admiral Thrawn
"In combat, second place is only the last to die."- Anonymous
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Riel Fury
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RE: Deep thought...
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August 15, 2002
9:38:17 PM
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No one said a lightsaber doesn't give off heat. It does, because it cauterizes when it cuts (the one exception being in ANH, which is odd since the arm bleeds when it hits the floor, I heard some possible explanations for it). ----------------------- Rear Admiral Riel Fury
Navy Commander In Chief
Krath Prophet(ess), Dark Lord of the Krath, Cult Member in Elite Griffen Sect
Give in to your hatred. Give in to your anger. Give in to the Dark Side.
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Argon Viper
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RE: Deep thought...
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August 16, 2002
1:11:54 PM
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Well, I assume specific biology was one answer you heard? Anyways, I remember a post far up there(can't be bothered to find it now...) Where someone said it gave off no heat... ----------------------- Argon Viper
IW COL Argon Viper{ret}
"History is on the move, those who cannot keep up will watch from a distance, and those who get in our way will not watch at all" - Grand Admiral Thrawn
"In combat, second place is only the last to die."- Anonymous
"Condemnation does not liberate, it oppresses" - Carl G Jung
"The only thing that will never change is that everything will change" - Argon Viper
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Swomz
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RE: Deep thought...
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August 16, 2002
3:31:41 PM
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mirror may reflect light, which is energy, but just because it is reflecting one type of energy it doesnt have to reflect all, say for instance electricity, it doesnt repell electricity. So, I am guessing the lightsaber would melt it.
(fyi: I wudve written more if I had time) ----------------------- SM/PFC Swomz/Dread Knight 2/Storm Platoon/1Company/1Battalion/Lorn IV/VEA
Private First Class Swomz
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Former FS I:A and Venom 3FL Leader
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Daishi
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RE: Deep thought...
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August 23, 2002
11:41:03 AM
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I seem to remember in "I, Jedi" some mention of the color of the gem having a direct impact on the color of the blade. I also seem to remember a story about Luke Skywalker traveling through the desserts of Tatooine to find a specific emerald to put in his lightsaber. Can't remember which book the later is from but I know it is there.
So as you can see there is cannonical evidence that the gem does have a direct impact on the color of the blade and not just from size or shape.
That brings us back to the possibility either a lightsaber is truely light or a form of energy we currently know nothing about that exhibits so many light like properties it could be easily mistaken for light.
Once again I point out that plasma is colored by the gases used to create the plasma, not the materials.
Also I point out that Star Wars is ussually rather specific about naming things. Blasters are not lasers, they do not emit beams of light.
Next. ----------------------- RA(U) Daishi COSOS
"If we had all knowladge then why would we seek what we already know and if we had no knowladge then how could we even ask the question?" Plato
"Indeceant exposure is fun." Sonatina
"There are at least three sides to any situation." Me
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Japheth
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RE: Deep thought...
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August 23, 2002
1:15:37 PM
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Read up. Those books are not cannonical evidence of anything at all. The only cannoical sources for Star Wars ARE:
1) The novellizations of the movies
2) The movies
3) The radioplays
The other novels are PURELY expanded universe which can, and has been, stomped into little bits by anything Lucas wants to do with his movies, books, and future radioplays. ----------------------- Rear Admiral Japheth Cappadocious, Krath Priest
Naval Executive Officer
Headmaster of the Dark Jedi Order Academy
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NXO/RAD Japheth Cappadocious/NHC-2/ISD-II Devastator/VEN/VE/(=SA=)(=SCPA=)(=FCO=)[BRC][MC:1][KC]
HM/KPT Japheth Cappadocious/DC-3/Krath Order/Elite Griffen Sect/VEDJ/VE
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Daishi
ComNet Cadet
[VE-NAVY] Rear Admiral (RAD) [VE-VEHC] El Presidente*
Post Number: 214
Total Posts: 243
Joined: Apr 2001
Status: Offline
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RE: Deep thought...
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August 23, 2002
4:52:53 PM
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That would be true of the first sighting if it were not for Michale Stackpole's habits when writing. It could be true for the second since I can't entirely remember which book that actually came from.
Stackpole has a nasty habit of actully learning about the universe he is going to write for before begining any of his projects. How much or how little research he did I cannot say for certain, but I find I can ussually trust what he writes as at least following the path laid down by cannon(plot continuity faries don't have to be murdered to make his stories work).
Unfortunately to find out if he did or did not follow this habit as thouroughly as I find he ussually does we'd have to ask him. ----------------------- RA(U) Daishi COSOS
"If we had all knowladge then why would we seek what we already know and if we had no knowladge then how could we even ask the question?" Plato
"Indeceant exposure is fun." Sonatina
"There are at least three sides to any situation." Me
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D-13
ComNet Member
[VE-ARMY] Gunnery Sergeant [VE-DJO] Dark Jedi Knight (DJK)
Post Number: 545
Total Posts: 688
Joined: Nov 2001
Status: Offline
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RE: Deep thought...
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August 23, 2002
9:02:24 PM
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I think we're getting a little off topic with the book thing.
Some reminders:
A) If a crystal were to give off light that's only the same color as it, the overall power is reduced since only the waves of that particular color can get through.
B) A lightsaber contains Adegan crystals which GIVE OFF energy when struck with light.
C) There are certain devices within the lightsaber that sort of channels the ENERGY and focuses it into a tight beam.
D) A lightsaber blade is pure energy, a mirror is reflective matter. If a lightsaber blade was made of light, even concentrated, it would still get reflected. Yes, I know light is electromagnetic energy, and because of that, this all condenses into one major headache. 
E) Don't take a freshman's words too seriously 
Just my two cents
----------------------- TRP/SGT D-13/3SQD/1PLT/1COMP/1BAT/VEA
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