This subject has gotten a lot of attention from me in the last three and a half years (before the housing market crash).  I got really interested after I started to get into the politician named Ron Paul, but I've found a variety of people who are on similar lines and espouse pretty much the same view.

Anyway, I thought I'd open this subject up to anyone who's interested: what do you think needs to be done about the economy?  Maybe it's just the US but maybe it's global?

So me being an African doesn't help Raz?:P

Anycase, I dont know much about the US, nor even global but;
Africa needs to establish its own philosophy of politics and economics because right now the West is screwing it up for us.

As for the world....Dont have a clue :P If we'd stop bullshitting ourselves with green pieces of paper and look at a more equalized structure and spread of capital instead of hoarding it to only i.e 10% of a population things might work.

And maybe a death penalty or two to the bastards who screws around with our capital for their parties.

As for less subjective opinion...I dont know enough to make a statement.

But meh....what do Africans know

Sniping101 wrote:The answer is piracy. I am completely serious. Thank you.

I concur . .  .
>.>
<.<

pirates have never been the cute, cudly, romanicized version we see Johnny Depp protraying on the silver screen. they were low, base, craven murderers that would rape and pillage for their own gain.

Pirates are a vermin that should always be exterminated.

I find you sollution problematic Racer.

Who's definition of good politics will we adhere to?

My view:
let's say 27% like Obama, and some people like Vice President Biden. Well? If a lot of people like Biden, or they like McCain and Palin, then boot Obama out, and bring in them.

Just my idea


EDIT: Yea, i hope in 2 years they'llpick someboyd GOOD.

/e gives a cookie to Marka and Havi

I was rushing to get it done

I would like to announce that I am running for President of the United States in 2012.

I will also be running for, uh, Prime Minister-ship of Canada.

I will then proceed to unite those countries into a megastate that can, and will, pursue an agenda of global domination and tyranny.

Muhahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...




*whistles innocently*

Wait lucky, are you really suggesting that canada was also affected by the GLOBAL economic crisis?

^couldn't of said it better myself^

Here in the US, the current administration should look back at what President Roosevelt did during his tenure to get the country out of the Great Depression.

Yes, World War II was a tremendous boon to the economy, but there are a lot of aspects of the New Deal that FDR set up that would really help out today, particularly creating more public works projects.

As Lewis Black once suggested, the government should just hire all the unemployed people in the country and have them build a "really big thing" somewhere in the midwest. Who cares what it is, just hire them to build it, then they'll spend their money and stimulate the economy! Plus, then tourists will come visit the big old thing and stimulate the economy anymore. I suggest a giant statue of Kadann, but what do I know!

Kad- my thoughts exactly!  Are you a Ron Paul or Peter Schiff fan by chance?

And DH- that's a classic Keynsian argument.  In fact, using your theory, war (As in the case of WWII) can be used as an economic stimulus.  Just have everyone build tanks and battleships, right?  All of it pushes the GDP up!

The only problem with building something and paying people for it (without regard to a useful intent) is that whatever you have built is now, in fact, useless.  The reason that people build things is so that they can make their lives easier.  If you build a road, that's great- but you had better need it.

A simple way to understand this would be to go back to "Crusoe Economics."  Let's say you're Robinson Crusoe and you're stuck on an island by yourself.  You observe that there are coconuts all over the island (and therefore your best form of subsistence).  Usually, it takes you all day to collect enough coconuts to survive.  However, if you take some time out of your day to find a good, long stick- now you can get those coconuts off the tree without having to climb all of them.  This is called a "producer good" or "factor of production."  It would have been totally useless for him to go and build sand castles when he's starving to death, right?

Creating government jobs is good because it puts people back to work, but it's usually in less meaningful or sustainable areas of the economy (i.e. the postal service, building roads, etc).  You want a job that is actually going to stay there for the years to come- not one that will evaporate.

Moreover- what are the moral implications of taking money (garnered from the wages/incomes of individuals via taxes) and then giving it to those who can't find work for themselves (justified or not justified).  I would also point out that, despite having an extremely high amount of unemployment- there is work to be done.  People just have to accept less income to do the same work- or...  Do work they usually wouldn't do (like factory work ).

I'm pretty much in agreement with Kad though.  I think the mal-investment created in the housing market (and the previous stocks bubble of the early 2000s) needs to be liquidated, and that means leaving the government out of the stimulus and bail-out industry.  If we did this, the good paying jobs that have disappeared might come back in a fear years (albeit in different industries/areas).  Either way, the US is going to get a hard hit when we have to pay back our debt (which I don't think we can...)  We can default responsibly, or- we can keep going the way we have and see massive hyper-inflation take us down.  Cool!

(For a way cooler explanation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0nERTFo-Sk)

It officially ended according to an organization (National something or other of Economics) in June of 2009- you're correct.  The way they figure that out, though, is by looking at "confidence" in the economy.  This means that they're looking at spending; they ignored the high unemployment because that's a "lagging indicator," meaning that it takes a while for it to come back.  However, since the FED (Federal Reserve Bank of New York) lowered interest rates to below 1 percent, and bailed out a number of banks and businesses- more money was in the market place and people were put under the allusion that we were coming out of the recession.  Therefore- they spent money.  And therefore- that National Institute of whatever said "oh- the recession is over!"  Obama, Ben Bernanke (chairmen of the FED) and others agreed and said similar things.

In reality, we accumulated more debt and just prolonged reality

Well- it's actually not too complicated.  Economics can seem daunting when you look at it through the eyes of a traditional, "Keynesian" economist, I guess, but it's actually a lot simpler than you'd think.

Economics is the study of exchange.  And when I say exchange- I mean any exchange.  People assume that economics is the study of money or has to involve it, but bartering is economics...  Theft is economics! Lol.  In fact, a burgler is an entrepeneur in the purest sense of the word

The basic purpose of "currency" as you call it, is to have something that everyone can agree has value.  This makes it easier to trade (especially when you're trying to exchange a special item- something big, like a car).  Imagine trying to "barter" a car for something else you have.... like stamps...  or plates...  It'd be tough.  Money is just a way to enumerate the value of your posessions for the sake of trade.

Currency can be anything though: cattle, shiny rocks, shells...  Cigarettes (like in WWII POW camps).  It just has to have value.  Gold is one of those things that is pretty darn consistent, and that's why people like to rely on it for thier currencies.  When a currency is backed only by a promise (as in the case of the US dollar), it can be manipulated (or inflated), which makes people leery of using it.  That's what's happening now