I think that the VE is in no way mature enough to have this discussion in an open forum.

Please surprise me, but this thread will be watched closely.

I agree as well that we should not discriminate Muslims or their religious views.  But as far as Obama not making it clear what religion he was of to the American public, I'm afraid the video made it quite clear that he is of the Muslim religion; for which I must disagree with what you said about it being cloudy.  He has stated his religious views quite plainly, after he was elected.

I never read the Koran or studied any religious book, and I understand that the three main stream Western religions hold a grudge against women. Christians for "Eve", Judaism asks that women shave their heads, Muslims ask that they cover themselves. Also all religions preach peace and loving, also all three religions have been the cause for wars.

What is my conclusion? They're all quite similar aren't they? Which is perhaps why I chose not to follow any. As to what this spells for the USA that Obama is in fact a practicing Muslim makes no difference as long as he's not an extremist, I personally dislike any extremist of any religion and political ideal, since they seldom know how to balance things equally.

He's a Christian, you idiot.

Joking aside, that video is a collection of clips snipped from speeches. They talk about his family, his friends, and allegations of his muslim status. Not his own religion, which is significant. These clips have been snipped to give a misleading impression. As for his quotes about the Koran, muslisms, and Iran, he was being diplomatic! Stating known facts. The US is not supposed to be a Christian nation, Muslims are part of daily life in it, Muslims are not Evil Incarnate and the enemy of mankind, and Obama left the pin off in an entirely justified gesture...

The video's misguided at best, actively subverting the truth at worst. Quoting hacks from Fox News, taking short clips from normal videos...hardly conclusive evidence.

It doesn't confirm anything, just butchers clips until they seem to suggest that. Find one part where he actually says what the title suggests he does. One part. Where does he actually say the quote in the end?

Look at the user! His video clips are all meant to suggest one thing!

Why show a clip of the WTC destruction in a supposed quote video? To make Obama's statement look bad, and to reinforce the maker's underlying message. Obama likes Muslims. Muslims are bad. Muslims did 9-11. Obama is a Muslim. Obama must be bad. He's different, an outsider, un-American, not our President!

Conclusion: Another piece of rubbish (slickly made, well edited rubbish but still rubbish) churned out by an increasingly deluded right-wing culture and its idiotic defenders.  The end.

1. You're absolutely right on all points. Which makes the video's subtext meaningless.

2. Regardless, he has shown no signs of following his former pastor's teachings. In any event, he is most certainly not a Muslim, meaningless as that may be.

3. When I say "right winger", I mean those with certain, very specific beliefs. The kind of person who worships the ground Bush stands on. The kind of person who thinks Obama isn't American, and can't be President because of that. The kind of person who shouts "you lie" to the American president. The kind of person who goes to the farcical "tea parties". Does that describe you? Right-winger and Republican aren't the same in my book.

And, yes, I'm essentially a straw liberal and proud of it.

Regarding Christmas: Neither will any school in my district or Wal-Mart for that matter. Everything is 'Happy Holidays' now. That's just the way things are, cause I seriously doubt that my entire school board is not christian. I find it more believable that they are trying to appeal to a wide range of religious beliefs.

Well I imagine if you have people voting for you it is wise not to take any side at all, simply because you will upset someone and that means less votes for you.

The whole "Obama is a Muslim" thing preys upon the supposed fear of a Shia Islamic concept called Taqiyya, through which a Muslim may "conceal" their faith for a number of reasons. Certain political factions, shall we say, try to use the existence of Taqiyya to funnel fear of the Muslim world to accomplish the political demise of the President

Basically, I say this: I don't think Obama is a Muslim. (By the way, I almost typed that as "Muslin." Just thought you should know. :P) Even if he was though, it is not illegal to adhere to one's faith in this countries, and under Shia law it is sometimes obligatory to practice Taqiyya. And if the American people politically crucify a man for adhering to his faith, then they deserve to have the First Amendment revoked.

I say this as a proud American.

To comment on the issue of whether Obama is a native born American: I'm not going to stand here and say he is or he isn't, because I honestly don't know- for that matter, none of us do. However, all they've ever done is claim that they "have the birth records and he is indeed an American citizen by birth." I'm sorry, but that's not proof. Show the birth certificate, at least. He's the POTUS- I'm quite sure every identity theft criminal in the world could try and they still wouldn't crack the defenses around his identity.

I'd also agree with the point about the church Mr. Obama attended for so long. You don't go to such a place for that long if you disagree with what's being preached. I also think he carries this through in his interactions with other countries. An excellent example of that is his recent visit to Japan. A deep bow to their Emperor? The POTUS should never feel the need or desire to do so to an equal. The man's an embarrassment to this country and the millions who've worked so hard to make it great.

Fox is biased, I must admit- however, they're certainly no more biased than the other networks. CBS ran a 24-hour special for Mr. Obama, allowing him to push his healthcare bill as much as he wanted- a bill that is ramrodded by the Democrats. Just days later they refused to run an ad against the bill from a Republican because they "refuse to support any one political party or agenda over another." That's bull, pure and simple, no matter how you try to twist it.

Muslims are not bad people- certainly not worthy of the stereotype they get landed with due to things like 9/11 and Fort Hood. I've met them and talked with them and experienced some of their culture, and they're just like we are. Just normal people who want to go about their lives in peace. A large number of them, though I wouldn't say all, condemn the extremists and dislike them as strongly as we do. (Genuine Somalian food rocks, by the way. Best rice I've ever had, along with roast lamb & a flatbread. Nom nom nom.)

Note: Anything that appears quoted is my best approximation of the original statement made, rather than an actual quote.

-Drac

As now several people have mentioned it, can someone please tell me where in the Constitution does it provide for the separation of church and state?

first of all...

Quote:I haven't read the entire thread, nor do I intend to

Star...if you won't read what others have say, you really have no room to comment on what they have said.

Quote:IT DOES NOT MATTER what religion Obama is

no it does not...to a point. if his espoused religion tells him he MUST do harm to this nation, then 'yes' we have a right to know and a right to question.

Quote:Leave the man alone. Let him do his job

somehow i doubt you would have been so adamant in a defense of President Bush.

to all here:
many of you know i am a somewhat conservative in my views. i support the Republican party, many times because the Democratic options are beyond the pale of reason, but more times because they reflect my views. 

a few comments on my part...

-the 'Birthers' have a valid question. the WH is evasive. nothing is served by this dance other than the further vilification of both sides.
-Jerimiah Wright IS a racist. his writings and sermons prove that. the WH is disengenuous when they say the Pres had no idea what was going on...if that is the case, all talk of Bush being a clueless dolt should cease, because if you don't know what your church is about after a decade+ then....
-is Obama a Muslim? that i know not. i feel he's more driven by ideology than religion
-the Tea Parties should not cynically discarded as machinizations of the Republican party. recent gubenatorial elections should show the current anger and discontent the American people have shown w/the current leadership in Washington.  a fact that will be made abundantly clear come Nov. 2010

finally, the question we should all ask is not 'What is he?", but more "What is his intent?"  answer that, and you deserve a REAL Nobel Prize.

The less of Christianity I see, the better.

Just my opinion...

Anyway:

Arturo, in that case, you are a right-winger according to my defintion of the phrase.

Re: Birth Certificate

They uploaded the damn certificate! You can see it if you bother to look online, as certain

http://www.snopes.com/politics/graphics/birthann.jpg

http://msgboard.snopes.com/politics/graphics/birth.jpg

Other:

Barack Obama is officially a Christian. Officially. That is a fact.

Unofficially, small gestures such as a religion-free Christmas are more or less meaningless when it comes to determining if Obama is a Christian. The only person who really knows is Obama himself, and if we take his word at face-value, he is. Until he officially says he worships the Beast, there's no evidence to say he isn't a Christian/

As for the bowing, he's showing respect. Respect for other world leaders and cultures. A far cry from Bush the cowboy.

Not that this means anything, but I suspect the First Amendment was written for the purpose of protecting the Protestants from the Catholics, I doubt they had the muslims or the jews etc... in mind at the time.

Luckily, it was worded in such a way that it applys to all religions anyway.

The words "Bush" and "Competant" don't belong together unless accompanied by the word "not".

/me giggles

somehow the misspelling of COMPETENT renders your point moot.

history will judge him kinder than his contemporaries