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Talon
ComNet Overlord

[VE-ARMY] Grand General
[VE-DJO] Dark Jeedai Master
[VE-ICS] Founder Emeritus
[VE-VEHC] Grand General

Post Number: 2253
Total Posts: 2417
Joined: Feb 2000
Status: Offline

Clarification. Read At Your Own Risk

January 26, 2009 4:50:31 PM

I have recently sensed a lot of resentment and heard rumor of dissent because of my action regarding former Commander of Training 2nd Lieutenant Darr-Rann. I also received a well written letter of concern touching on this issue. I am always preaching “punish in private, praise in public” but sometimes that just does not work. Sometimes those who were punished give their side of the story and it gets passed around as fact. That is not to say that the person is an outright liar, but sometimes personal perspective skews things. Because of the negative effect of Darr’s dismissal, I’ve decided to make a public statement. I will show logs and screenshots. Some of the information will be paraphrased to protect those that do not wish to be named. I WILL WARN ALL WHO ARE READING THIS NOW: if you would like to remember Darr for the good times you had in the VE, stop reading now. Continue reading only if you will not rest until you see the facts for yourself.

Darr-Rann has been outspoken in criticizing the High Council in the past, often doing so in public… but not to their faces. This has decreased over time, but he has always been on my radar as either being a troublemaker or associating with them. Over the past year or so, Darr has kept his nose relatively clean.

As Army High Command members moved up the ranks, the Commander of Training position opened up. Darr was elevated to this position, given moderator status on ComNet, and given ops in #Vast_Empire (that is actually my mistake, he should have been given half-ops per his position. Oddly enough that would have made it impossible to kick Angel as they would both be half-ops. The situation would have never happened). I was told by Rizzit that Darr threatened to quit numerous times during his short time (less than 2 weeks) as CoT.

Below is my log from #Vast_Empire unedited (saved from changing the brackets around names so that they don’t disappear from ComNet). I started it early to show there was nothing going on before out of the ordinary.

Quote:[10:52:45] (Sherlock) who was being speshul today?
[10:52:58] * Angel rayzez hiz handz
[10:53:38] (Sherlock) fail PC is fail
[10:53:51] (Angel) if fail PC is fail, then fail PA is fail :P
[10:53:52] * Angel was kicked by Rizzit (talk right and in English )
[10:53:53] * Angel ([email protected]) has joined #vast_empire
[10:53:53] * ChanServ sets mode: +h Angel
[10:54:02] (Angel) gah!
[10:54:17] (Angel) That means a lot coming from someone who says "izzzle" all the damn time :P
[10:54:21] (Rizzit) lol
[10:54:38] (Rizzit) the ops werent bored at the time
[10:54:51] (Angel) That's like Kand telling me not to be a prick. Or Darr telling me not to whine.
[10:55:07] (DM) ...
[10:55:08] (Rizzit) Darr does not whine
[10:55:11] * DM sets mode: +b *!*@ft-BFC4F7C9.chemithon.com
[10:55:16] (Rizzit) he bitchs
[10:55:17] (Sherlock) or something else ironic and amusing!
[10:55:18] (Rizzit) *bitches
[10:55:23] * Angel was kicked by DM (15 minute penalty for being a shithead )
[10:55:29] (Rizzit) LOL
[10:55:36] (Sherlock) roflcopter
[10:55:44] (DM) Praise in public, bitch.
[10:55:56] (Sherlock) okay
[10:56:02] (Sherlock) coffee and xmas shopping
[10:56:17] (Rizzit) Darr...unban Angel he didn't do anything
[10:56:37] (DM) We going to ignore everything he said again?
[10:56:51] (Rizzit) no no I was making a jab at something else
[10:57:31] * Jeg|Gone ([email protected]) has joined #vast_empire
[10:58:07] * Jeg|Gone is now known as Jeggles
[10:59:07] (DM) well
[10:59:16] (DM) since I didnt have timestamps on, let's call it ten minutes from now
[10:59:40] (Jeggles) Not true.
[11:00:05] * Sherlock is now known as Sherlock|Gone
[11:00:45] * Rizzit ([email protected]) Quit (Ping timeout )
[11:01:44] * Ron ([email protected]) has joined #vast_empire
[11:04:40] * Rizzit ([email protected]) has joined #vast_empire
[11:04:41] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Rizzit
[11:05:03] (Rizzit) god damn I hate my pc
[11:05:05] (DM) wb
[11:05:12] (Hunter) heh
[11:05:17] (Jeggles) Level 6 :P
[11:05:18] (Rizzit) oh look at that I said the G-word
[11:05:29] (Jeggles) Please do not use the Lord's name in vain.
[11:05:31] (Jeggles) It offends me.
[11:05:43] * Jeggles runs
[11:06:36] (Hunter) -.^
[11:07:03] * Jeggles is now known as Jeg|GW
[11:08:40] (Hunter) Hmmm...
[11:08:46] * Rizzit ([email protected]) Quit (Ping timeout )
[11:08:50] (Hunter) Not many people on today.
[11:09:27] (Hunter) Ah crap.
[11:10:20] (Hunter) I talked a guy into joining the VE the other day and I just found out that the guy is Catachan...
[11:10:28] * Rizzit ([email protected]) has joined #vast_empire
[11:10:29] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Rizzit
[11:10:31] (Jeg|GW) Ouch
[11:10:38] (Jeg|GW) Don't know if I would be passing that one around :P
[11:10:40] (Jeg|GW) Welcome back Rizz
[11:10:40] (Hunter) heh
[11:10:49] (Rizzit) let's try this again
[11:10:49] (Hunter) Speaking of that...
[11:10:56] (DM) okay
[11:11:01] * DM sets mode: -b *!*@ft-BFC4F7C9.chemithon.com
[11:11:16] (Jeg|GW) Smooth
[11:11:20] * Angel ([email protected]) has joined #vast_empire
[11:11:20] * ChanServ sets mode: +h Angel
[11:11:36] (Angel) Its so cute how Darr wants to wear the daddy pants now.
[11:11:38] * Angel goes and whines to Cosmic
[11:11:53] (Rizzit) heyJeg
[11:11:56] (Rizzit) mind if I come tag along
[11:11:56] (Angel) Now where are my razor blades...
[11:12:01] (Jeg|GW) Sure
[11:12:03] (Angel) Oh wait, Darr bought them all.
[11:12:23] (Rizzit) Angel, word to the wise
[11:12:31] (Rizzit) I'm getting off and Darr controls your fate
[11:12:36] (Hunter) heh
[11:12:37] (Angel) pppft.
[11:12:44] (Angel) Just because he's on his period...
[11:12:59] * Jeg|GW giggles
[11:13:05] (Rizzit) hey Darr...rock paper sciscors?
[11:13:10] (Jeg|GW) You said period :P
[11:13:13] (Angel) Care for a feminine napkin?
[11:13:23] (DM) lol
[11:13:24] * Hunter giggles
[11:13:26] (Hunter) So did you...
[11:13:33] (Jeg|GW) Creeper...
[11:13:47] * Rizzit sets mode: +b *!*chatzilla@*.chemithon.com
[11:13:52] (DM) Heh
[11:13:56] (Hunter) heh
[11:14:51] * Rizzit sets mode: -b *!*chatzilla@*.chemithon.com
[11:14:55] (Jeg|GW) heh
[11:14:55] (Jeg|GW) ...
[11:14:58] (Jeg|GW) I like conforming
[11:15:00] (Jeg|GW) What can I say
[11:15:10] (Rizzit) play nice
[11:15:17] (Angel) I'm not a nice person :P
[11:15:29] (Angel) But at least I won't go cry like a sissy little bitch.
[11:15:34] (Jeg|GW) Ouch
[11:15:35] (Rizzit) tthen be neutral ;p
[11:15:37] (DM) Heh
[11:15:45] (Rizzit) yeah...thats why we have Ibram
[11:15:47] (DM) No, you'll go on a big bitchy rant
[11:15:58] (DM) Angel, dont act like a dick and you dont get kicked
[11:16:00] (DM) it's that simple.
[11:16:05] (Jeg|GW) Actually, it's not
[11:16:09] (Hunter) Rants are Angel's specialty...
[11:16:12] (Jeg|GW) Why did he get kicked in the first place?
[11:16:23] (Hunter) Because he made fun of Darr.
[11:16:31] (DM) Because he was insulting me and a couple of other people
[11:16:33] (DM) for no apparent reason
[11:16:50] (Angel) It's only insulting if the truth hurts.
[11:16:52] (Hunter) Question.
[11:17:00] (Hunter) How many times a day does that happen to other people?
[11:17:08] (DM) lol
[11:17:10] (DM) The truth?
[11:17:11] (Hunter) Yet nothing gets done to that person.
[11:17:14] (Angel) Yeah, the truth.
[11:17:16] (DM) Your spending your time attacking people on IRC
[11:17:21] (DM) That's pretty damned lame.
[11:17:26] (Angel) Kand's a prick, you're a whiner.
[11:17:33] (Angel) If that hurts you, not my fault.
[11:17:34] (Hunter) Can both of you shutup.
[11:17:35] * DM sets mode: +b *!*@ft-BFC4F7C9.chemithon.com
[11:17:43] * Angel is now known as BIGDADDYDARR
[11:17:43] * BIGDADDYDARR was kicked by DM (Your banned for another half hour )
[11:17:44] * Rizzit sets mode: +b *!*ghdfhd@*.eastlink.ca
[11:17:53] (DM) heh
[11:17:59] (Hunter) I mean, its bad enough for the troopers to be arguing, buy you two?
[11:18:00] * DM sets mode: -b *!*ghdfhd@*.eastlink.ca
[11:18:00] (Jeg|GW) Wow
[11:18:02] (Hunter) *but
[11:18:06] (DM) that doesnt really work Rizz
[11:18:19] (Rizzit) oh damn
[11:18:19] (DM) I dont want to bitch with him, if he wants to keep doing that I'll just keep banning him
[11:18:25] (Rizzit) haha
[11:18:29] (Jeg|GW) I love how we just boot people when we don't want to deal with them. Kewl.
[11:18:30] (Rizzit) well im off to play with Jeg
[11:18:31] * Jeg|GW ([email protected]) has left #vast_empire
[11:18:33] (Rizzit) have fun with Angel
[11:18:38] (DM) And I scale the time
[11:18:40] (DM) Later Rizz
[11:18:42] (Hunter) Just be the better man and ignore him.
[11:18:43] * Rizzit ([email protected]) Quit (Quit: (Kadann) just lost 750 million ICs at the stock market!! (Rizzit) so the stock market system which you own just lost you fake currency that you created? (Kadann) makes me mad....can't even beat my own system )
[11:18:44] (Hunter) Jeez.
[11:20:51] * MD|Poker steps in to break it up
[11:20:55] (DM) heh
[11:21:00] (MD|Poker) Ill kick all of your fuckin asses
[11:21:00] (DM) Delayed response? :P
[11:21:17] (MD|Poker) ehhhh, just got fucking bad beat
[11:21:35] (MD|Poker) pocket twos go all in on a flop of A6J
[11:21:38] (MD|Poker) i have AJ
[11:21:43] (MD|Poker) he has pocket twos
[11:21:46] (MD|Poker) and rivers a 2
[11:22:36] (MD|Poker) lost 56 bucks that hand
[11:27:17] * Bacredi ([email protected]) has joined #vast_empire
[11:29:26] * arturus ([email protected]) has joined #vast_empire
[11:36:27] * Helena ([email protected]) has joined #vast_empire
[11:37:04] (Ron) hey hel
[11:37:13] (Helena) Hola
[11:37:19] (Helena) work is a bitch =/
[11:37:45] (Bacredi) http://nazgul.imperial-navy.com/misc/maps/flash/yetton.swf
[11:38:43] (Tomas) hey
[11:38:44] (Tomas) lol
[11:38:47] (DM) Hey, Sophie
[11:39:35] * Albino ([email protected]) has joined #vast_empire
[11:41:29] (Bacredi) Ok, ok, ok
[11:41:36] (Bacredi) what exactly are RAIDERS orderS?
[11:41:39] (Bacredi) orders*
[11:46:30] (Hunter) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3S6-RPDuR8&feature=PlayList&p=C1DA2AFFF8FE0638&index=12
[11:47:45] * DM sets mode: -b *!*@ft-BFC4F7C9.chemithon.com
[11:47:54] (Bacredi) o_O
[11:47:56] (DM) Angel
[11:48:03] (Bacredi) LOL
[11:48:48] (Albino) u,timate lolage

Explosive, no? Who is at fault? That is hard to call at first glance. Many people will see Angel’s aggressive reply and point the finger. Stop a second and look at what started it all.
[10:54:51] (Angel) That's like Kand telling me not to be a prick. Or Darr telling me not to whine.
That line alone was met with a kick/ban. I don’t expect everyone to understand why this is a big deal, but Darr kick/banned a fellow op. There is a courtesy that is extended between ops to take beefs like this to a private message first to resolve. That’s not even to mention the fact that their issues should have been taken to a PM even if neither of them were ops. After this action, HC and AHC had a hard time faulting Angel for his aggression.

The situation actually escaped my attention until Rizzit told me that there was a mess in the channel earlier that day. I reviewed the log closely, made my decision, and waited to catch Darr on IRC again to talk to him. The following PM log is the resulting conversation.

Quote:[02:10:00] (DM) Hey
[02:10:07] (DM) So, my ops were removed?
[02:11:09] (DM) I'd like to talk whenever you get around - I'm assuming this was because of angel
[02:11:32] (DM) He was violating a specific request made by the AHC to tone down his behavior
[02:13:04] (DM) He was insulting me (A member of the AHC) and two people who he's already driven to nearly quitting because they dont like being picked on by him
[02:13:28] (DM) and in each circumstance I set a specific time for the ban and enforced it
[02:13:59] (DM) If I'm going to get my ops removed for enforcing the CoC, I dont see why it's still there
01[02:19:22] (Chesh) There were some who were leery of you getting ops in #VE. I reviewed the logs and he called you whiney once before your kick/ban. Frankly I see his response to that justified.
01[02:20:14] (Chesh) The part that really irritates me is you not following Rizzit's order when he told you to knock it off.
01[02:20:52] (Chesh) The CoT is an important job, but as far as the Chain of Command goes it barely makes it into the HCA.
[02:21:01] (DM) heh
[02:21:07] (DM) Rizzit told me I was getting ops
[02:21:12] (DM) Rizzit didnt tell me to knock it off either
01[02:21:22] (Chesh) yes he did. I read my own logs.
01[02:21:44] (Chesh) and I've had a talk with Rizzit about him not stomping a mudhole in your ass after that
[02:21:57] (DM) I kicked Angel because he wouldnt stop going on about people
[02:22:03] (DM) He's driven two people to nearly quitting
[02:22:13] (DM) one member is extremely upset by him because he wont lay off
01[02:22:23] (Chesh) Really? Are you adding Kand to that list?
01[02:22:38] (Chesh) because he's stated he's staying even if Helena leaves.
[02:22:50] (DM) He's also stated that he could quit
[02:23:00] (DM) He's less likely to, but I've heard it from him
[02:23:30] (DM) when I kicked Angel, he didnt exactly take it well either
[02:23:38] (DM) He even went into #ahc and started insulting me
01[02:23:42] (Chesh) I wouldn't have either.
01[02:23:50] (Chesh) you kicked him for calling you whiney
01[02:23:51] (Chesh) once
01[02:23:56] (Chesh) you abused your ops
[02:23:59] (DM) no
[02:24:08] (DM) He's been asked SPECIFICALLY by the AHC to cut it out
01[02:24:17] (Chesh) tone it down, was what I heard
[02:24:21] (DM) He's supposed to be a PC
[02:24:28] (DM) But he's abusing members
01[02:24:43] (Chesh) you don't have a leg to stand on Darr. The logs are against you.
[02:24:48] (DM) I have the logs
[02:24:52] (DM) How the hell are they against me?
01[02:24:57] (Chesh) so do I. So does Rizzit... and Cos.
01[02:25:37] (Chesh) the three of us had a little pow-wow. They both know that I took your ops and they are finding no fault on Angel here.
[02:25:45] (DM) Of course
[02:25:49] (DM) This is such bullshit
[02:26:02] (DM) Angel does things right in the public eye and we always let him get away with it
[02:26:16] (DM) I know he's your friend, but this is getting ridiculous
[02:26:38] (DM) [15:11] (%Angel) Now where are my razor blades...
[02:26:38] (DM) [15:11] (Jeg|GW) Sure
[02:26:38] (DM) [15:11] (%Angel) Oh wait, Darr bought them all.
01[02:26:38] (Chesh) Really? I'm the one that kicked him out of the VE before. I still knock him down a peg or two when he needs it.
[02:26:44] (DM) He was fucking making fun of my depression
[02:26:52] (DM) I dont know, but that seems a bit much
[02:27:46] (DM) 14:49] * @Rizzit gives himself RAIDERS SL again.
[02:27:47] (DM) [14:49] (%Angel) oh noes!
[02:27:47] (DM) [14:49] (%Angel) cheater!
[02:27:47] (DM) [14:49] (%Angel) unfair!
[02:27:47] (DM) [14:49] (Sherlock) lawl
[02:27:47] (DM) [14:49] * %Angel cries like a Kand
[02:27:47] (DM) [14:49] (@Rizzit) lol
[02:27:47] (DM) [14:49] * %Angel cries like a Helena
[02:27:47] (DM) [14:49] * %Angel cries like a Darr
[02:27:49] (DM) First thing
[02:27:57] (DM) Rizzit kicked him
[02:28:06] (DM) [14:53] (%Angel) gah!
[02:28:06] (DM) [14:54] (%Angel) That means a lot coming from someone who says "izzzle" all the damn time :P
[02:28:06] (DM) [14:54] (@Rizzit) lol
[02:28:06] (DM) [14:54] (@Rizzit) the ops werent bored at the time
[02:28:06] (DM) [14:54] (%Angel) That's like Kand telling me not to be a prick. Or Darr telling me not to whine.
[02:28:09] (DM) He goes at it again
[02:28:18] (DM) So Two indicences against me, two against kand, and one against Helena
[02:28:24] (DM) When he's been asked to leave them alone
[02:28:36] (DM) So I ban him for 15 minutes
01[02:28:50] (Chesh) don't twist facts.
[02:28:52] (DM) [14:56] (@Rizzit) Darr...unban Angel he didn't do anything
[02:28:59] (DM) Rizzit specifically told me this was sarcasm
01[02:29:05] (Chesh) Rizzit's kick was for this: [10:53:51] (Angel) if fail PC is fail, then fail PA is fail :P
[02:29:08] (DM) How am I twisting facts?
[02:29:10] (DM) heh
[02:29:17] (DM) I missed that
[02:29:23] (DM) All the same, it doesnt make what I posted okay
[02:29:29] (DM) And what I posted contributed to my ban
[02:29:51] (DM) Why does Angel have ops?
[02:29:56] (DM) He's a PC, and he got them BEFORE then
[02:30:00] (DM) and he's abused his ops
01[02:30:16] (Chesh) his ops are because of his standings in the DJO
[02:30:29] (DM) heh
[02:30:38] (DM) So he abuses them and nothing happens?
[02:30:47] (DM) [15:11] * Angel ([email protected]) has joined #vast_empire
[02:30:47] (DM) [15:11] * ChanServ sets mode: +h Angel
[02:30:47] (DM) [15:11] (%Angel) Its so cute how Darr wants to wear the daddy pants now.
[02:30:47] (DM) [15:11] * %Angel goes and whines to Cosmic
[02:30:47] (DM) [15:11] (@Rizzit) heyJeg
[02:30:47] (DM) [15:11] (@Rizzit) mind if I come tag along
[02:30:47] (DM) [15:11] (%Angel) Now where are my razor blades...
[02:30:47] (DM) [15:11] (Jeg|GW) Sure
[02:30:47] (DM) [15:11] (%Angel) Oh wait, Darr bought them all.
[02:30:48] (DM) [15:12] (@Rizzit) Angel, word to the wise
[02:30:50] (DM) [15:12] (@Rizzit) I'm getting off and Darr controls your fate
[02:30:50] (DM) [15:12] (Hunter) heh
[02:30:52] (DM) [15:12] (%Angel) pppft.
[02:30:52] (DM) [15:12] (%Angel) Just because he's on his period...
[02:30:54] (DM) [15:12] * Jeg|GW giggles
[02:30:54] (DM) [15:12] (@Rizzit) hey Darr...rock paper sciscors?
[02:30:56] (DM) [15:13] (Jeg|GW) You said period :P
[02:30:56] (DM) [15:13] (%Angel) Care for a feminine napkin?
[02:30:58] (DM) This
[02:31:27] (DM) [15:15] (%Angel) I'm not a nice person :P
[02:31:27] (DM) [15:15] (%Angel) But at least I won't go cry like a sissy little bitch.
[02:31:27] (DM) [15:15] (Jeg|GW) Ouch
[02:31:27] (DM) [15:15] (@Rizzit) tthen be neutral ;p
[02:31:27] (DM) [15:15] (@DM) Heh
[02:31:27] (DM) [15:15] (@DM) No, you'll go on a big bitchy rant
[02:31:27] (DM) [15:15] (@Rizzit) yeah...thats why we have Ibram
[02:31:27] (DM) [15:15] (@DM) Angel, dont act like a dick and you dont get kicked
[02:31:27] (DM) [15:15] (@DM) it's that simple.
[02:31:27] (DM) [15:15] (Jeg|GW) Actually, it's not
[02:31:27] (DM) [15:16] (Hunter) Rants are Angel's specialty...
[02:31:29] (DM) [15:16] (Jeg|GW) Why did he get kicked in the first place?
[02:31:31] (DM) [15:16] (Hunter) Because he made fun of Darr.
[02:31:31] (DM) [15:16] (@DM) Because he was insulting me and a couple of other people
[02:31:33] (DM) [15:16] (@DM) for no apparent reason
[02:31:33] (DM) [15:16] (%Angel) It's only insulting if the truth hurts.
[02:31:34] (DM) [15:16] (Hunter) Question.
[02:31:34] (DM) [15:16] (Hunter) How many times a day does that happen to other people?
[02:31:36] (DM) [15:17] (@DM) lol
[02:31:38] (DM) [15:17] (@DM) The truth?
[02:31:38] (DM) [15:17] (Hunter) Yet nothing gets done to that person.
[02:31:42] (DM) [15:17] (%Angel) Yeah, the truth.
[02:31:42] (DM) [15:17] (@DM) Your spending your time attacking people on IRC
[02:31:42] (DM) [15:17] (@DM) That's pretty damned lame.
[02:31:42] (DM) [15:17] (%Angel) Kand's a prick, you're a whiner.
[02:31:43] (DM) [15:17] (%Angel) If that hurts you, not my fault.
[02:31:44] (DM) That
[02:31:48] (DM) Resulted in his next ban
01[02:32:03] (Chesh) you can state your case to Cosmic and Rizzit. I've reviewed the logs and deemed your reaction to be excessive. I've made the recommendation to Cosmic and Rizzit that you be placed in a squad and a new CoT found.
[02:32:12] (DM) ...
[02:32:18] (DM) Wow
[02:32:31] (DM) This is pathetic
01[02:33:26] (Chesh) This has nothing to do with my relationship with Angel. When things like this pop up, I am impartial. It's all part of the job.
[02:33:48] (DM) what about everything that Angel said I did?
[02:33:55] (DM) said*
[02:34:00] (DM) I'm sorry, I just woke up
[02:34:06] (DM) What about everything angel said?
[02:34:14] (DM) He's off the hook for everything, again?
01[02:35:04] (Chesh) My foot is asleep. That's God's way of saying I should be done with the conversation. Later.
[02:35:12] (DM) of course he is
[02:35:18] (DM) later
[02:55:20] (DM) I did not mention any specifics
[02:55:32] (DM) I just wanted to make my resignation public
[02:55:37] (DM) and I have that right
[02:58:58] (DM) so please, do not edit it again
01[02:59:08] (Chesh) that post showed a complete lack of maturity.
[02:59:15] (DM) I have not named any specific names, nor have I said anything other then I disagree with their position and resign in protest
01[02:59:24] (Chesh) and I'll delete your next one and change your password if you continue.
[02:59:33] (DM) ...
[02:59:41] (DM) So I'm not allowed to state my resignation?
01[02:59:55] (Chesh) If you want to, do it with a little dignity.
[03:00:02] (DM) heh
[03:00:12] (DM) How? Saying everyone has been doing a wonderful, peachy job when they havent?
[03:00:28] (DM) I kept it as civil as possible
[03:00:38] (DM) but I'm not going to sugar-coat it
01[03:01:16] (Chesh) you know what, go ahead and post the original. Need me to copy/paste it to you?
[03:01:36] (DM) I Quit. I had a strong disagreement with other members of command on how a certain situation was handled (Is that vague enough)? and have decided enough is enough. I hand in my resignation in protest.
[03:01:36] (DM) There
[03:01:36] (DM) That's it
[03:01:36] (DM) It says nothing specific
[03:01:48] (DM) heh
01[03:01:53] (Chesh) I saw it.
01[03:02:19] (Chesh) your first version sounded whiney and childish. Funny, because that sums you up pretty nicely.
[03:02:50] (DM) Why is that necissary?
[03:03:05] (DM) I'm not looking for any more insults, so keep them to yourself
01[03:07:07] (Chesh) yeah, well, I'm off anyway.

Here are the screenshots of the post, versions 1,
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and 3.

Note that he chose to unlock a thread that I locked, and delete an edit that I made. I barely kept myself in check for that one. So as you can see, he resigned after hearing my recommendation. He was not fired.

Some time passed as Darr continued to spread the hate in the background. He was still on IRC and posting on ComNet. I then heard from two different sources that he started up a new writing club. I couldn’t have cared less. More power to him. It’s a lot more work than he thinks and if he wants to do that on his time, by all means. My ears perked up when these sources told me that he tried to recruit them. They even gave me names of about a half-dozen more. I jumped on my phone to call Kadann. He laughed when I told him that Darr was starting up his own club. I believe his words were “good luck with that.” If anyone knows how much work it is, it’d be Kad. Anyway, when I told him about the recruitment, Kadann agreed with me. Darr should know better. I removed his ComNet moderator status (should have been done when he resigned, but it never happened). I also changed the passwords and email addresses of both of his accounts. I did not kline him from IRC, so that I could explain to him what was going on and why. The frustrating thing was, even though I took these measures, Darr somehow changed his own password. I changed his password at least 4 times, each time he was able to figure out the new one. My guess is that he somehow had an admin’s password. At this point I told everyone to change theirs immediately. In between password changes, he came on IRC. Here’s the PM log from that:

Quote:[14:39:20] (Darr-Food) Hey
[14:39:26] (Darr-Food) Can you please just leave my password alone?
[14:39:52] (Chesh) I'll deal with you when I'm done talking to MD.
[14:42:15] (Darr-Rann) heh
[14:42:19] (Darr-Rann) whenever you've got a moment then
[14:44:28] (Darr-Rann) Also, my VERPG mods were assigned to me by Kadann
[14:45:51] (Chesh) the same guy that removed your roster access?
[14:46:10] (Darr-Rann) heh
[14:46:25] (Darr-Rann) interesting how he used your email
[14:46:37] (Chesh) here's my issue right now. I don't give a shit that you started up your own club. Go right ahead.
[14:46:47] (Darr-Rann) With my friends
[14:46:51] (Chesh) the problem I have is you recruiting from the VE
[14:46:53] (Darr-Rann) and please, dont read private conversations
[14:46:58] (Darr-Rann) With my friends
[14:47:01] (Darr-Rann) I have not posted about it
[14:47:05] (Darr-Rann) nor made public recruits
[14:47:05] (Chesh) I don't have to.
[14:47:11] (Chesh) I've heard from others about this
[14:47:28] (Darr-Rann) I've been talking to my friends, specific people
[14:47:28] (Darr-Rann) oh?
[14:47:42] (Chesh) yep
[14:48:00] (Chesh) you've approached others in this club about joining your new group... knowing full well that we don't allow that.
[14:48:03] (Darr-Rann) that's interesting, because I dont think any of my friends would do that to me
[14:48:09] (Darr-Rann) I've approached friends
[14:48:18] (Darr-Rann) Friends who I associate with outside of VE
[14:48:28] (Darr-Rann) I dont believe my friends would do that
[14:49:30] (Chesh) So then you're accusing me of lying?
[14:49:33] (Darr-Rann) heh
[14:49:38] (Darr-Rann) You changed my password without telling me
[14:49:46] (Chesh) I didn't kline you.
[14:49:48] (Darr-Rann) removed my comnet mods
[14:49:52] (Chesh) I thought I would talk to you first.
[14:49:54] (Darr-Rann) I'm waiting for it, honestly
[14:50:13] (Chesh) Here's the deal. I have no possible way of reading your private messages.
[14:50:18] (Darr-Rann) Heh
[14:50:21] (Darr-Rann) On your IRC server?
[14:50:29] (Chesh) I had to get this information by the people you talked to
[14:50:40] (Chesh) that's right. On my IRC server. It's illegal for me to listen in on PM's.
[14:50:46] (Darr-Rann) heh
[14:50:49] (Darr-Rann) I dont believe you
[14:50:52] (Chesh) fine
[14:50:53] (Darr-Rann) Who would have told you?
[14:51:02] (Chesh) It doesn't matter. It's the truth.
[14:51:12] (Chesh) You know the rules. You used to train people on them.
[14:51:19] (Darr-Rann) well
[14:51:24] (Chesh) That means I have less patience with you.
[14:51:28] (Darr-Rann) Apparently those rules only apply when you feel like it
[14:51:44] (Darr-Rann) because when I tried to enforce them - as I was told to do by Cos and Rizz - I got in trouble
[14:52:09] (Chesh) You "enforced" a rule without any warning and to a fellow op. There is a level of courtesy that is extened to ops.
[14:52:11] (Chesh) they are PMed first
[14:52:17] (Chesh) what you did was personal
[14:52:19] (Darr-Rann) He's been warned before
[14:52:48] (Chesh) You obviously don't understand what I'm talking about with the courtesy then.
[14:53:08] (Darr-Rann) My issue is his behavior has been a topic of discussion for the AHC for a while now
[14:53:26] (Darr-Rann) He was making very personal issues
[14:53:38] (Darr-Rann) He made fun of my depression/suicidal thoughts
[14:53:57] (Darr-Rann) I think that's completely out of line
[14:54:01] (Darr-Rann) I'm not DJO
[14:54:02] (Chesh) Here's the deal. You were given a position of power you weren't ready for. You proved that. Your actions when I removed your ops haven't helped your case any. The AHC does not support you right now. You've pounded the final nail with recruiting from the VE members. You're not longer welcome here.
[14:54:13] (Chesh) DJO has nothing to do with this
[14:54:24] (Darr-Rann) But I was superior to angel in the Chain of Command
[14:54:32] (Darr-Rann) Yet he's running up a line about me in the main
[14:54:42] (Darr-Rann) But if anyone says anything about him, they get cracked down on
[14:55:38] (Darr-Rann) I've only tried to keep things calm
[14:56:00] (Chesh) You're done, Darr.
[14:56:15] (Chesh) I've talked to your superiors.. and mine.
[14:56:24] (Darr-Rann) They tell me other things
[14:56:27] (Darr-Rann) But yeah
[14:56:33] (Chesh) good luck with your club. Don't use the VE as a recruiting pool.
[14:56:45] (Darr-Rann) I'm not recruiting from the VE, I'm recruiting friends who are here
[14:56:49] (Darr-Rann) I am recruiting friends who are elsewere
[14:56:56] (Darr-Rann) These are my friends, VE or not
[14:56:59] (Chesh) I'll ask you nicely not to use my IRC server.
[14:57:05] (Darr-Rann) very well
[14:57:26] (Darr-Rann) Right now I've been trying to get contacts of people
[14:58:05] (Darr-Rann) okay
[14:58:10] (Darr-Rann) since you've taken away my VERPG channel
[14:58:20] (Chesh) I haven't touched your channel.
[14:58:21] (Darr-Rann) would you mind putting the email in the topic?
[14:58:23] (Darr-Rann) yes
[14:58:29] (Darr-Rann) You deregistered my nick
[14:58:32] (Chesh) no I didn't
[14:58:38] (Darr-Rann) then why dont I have access anymore
[14:58:39] (Darr-Rann) ?
[14:58:43] (Chesh) you may have let the registration lapse. Not my doing.
[14:58:57] (Darr-Rann) this nick is supposed to be grouped
[14:59:05] (DM) here we go
[14:59:13] (Chesh) I haven't touched your IRC access.
[14:59:45] (Chesh) I'll let you use today to get in contact with your friends on IRC. I'd like to see you gone by tomorrow.
[14:59:52] (DM) heh
[14:59:52] (Chesh) I have to go now.

Between his actions as an op in #Vast_Empire, his retirement post, his recruitment of VE members for another club, and his bypassing security measures on the domain; Darr-Rann was found to be a detriment to the VE as a whole and was asked to leave. He showed a lack of maturity throughout the situation that proved he was not fit for a job in the Army High Command. All that has happened to him was his own doing. He had the choice of leaving privately and with dignity, but because of the misinformation he spread his dirty laundry must be aired.

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RE: Clarification. Read At Your Own Risk

January 26, 2009 4:55:42 PM

I would like to state that if anyone has any questions, please feel free to ask them here. Nothing you say (respectfully) will land you in any hot water. I want this issue cleared up for everyone.

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RE: Clarification. Read At Your Own Risk

January 26, 2009 5:23:44 PM

Why exactly is recruiting for another club a crime? Heck, I've done it myself (the PPC). It isn't hostile or uncalled for, and I don't think other clubs mind if we recruit there.

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RE: Clarification. Read At Your Own Risk

January 26, 2009 5:33:42 PM

I would just like to say thanks for putting this up. I know some of us, myself included, were wondering just what had happened. Although it matters absolutely zilch what I think, I'm still going to point out that I believe you made the right decision.

Just my two cents.

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RE: Clarification. Read At Your Own Risk

January 26, 2009 5:38:13 PM

That is a very good question. Not one I'm sure I can prove in plain English with written rules. This is something that should be fixed soon, though, as this rule is common knowledge. What I can offer you in reply is this:

Imperial Penal Code - Article 3: Chapter 6: Treason - Any member or officer who acts in a manner directly opposed to the interests of the club, thereby knowingly attempting to do damage to the club, either alone or in collusion with others, for personal gain or that of others, and with or without consideration for or from an enemy organization, shall be guilty of Treason, a Class III offense.

Also on the same page is the Imperial Sentencing Guideline

Article 4: Class III Offenses

* Chapter 1: Class III offenses may rightly be punished with the following sanctions unless stated otherwise by the High Council:
o Any of the sanctions enumerated in Article 3, Chapter 1 of this title, BUT NOT those enumerated in Article 2, Chapter 1, provided that the mitigating factors outweigh the aggravating factors in the opinion of the High Council.
o Discharge: The member shall be expelled from the Vast Empire and loose all rank and seniority.
o Expulsion: The member shall be discharged without possibility of return.

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RE: Clarification. Read At Your Own Risk

January 26, 2009 10:15:03 PM

Dante wrote:Why exactly is recruiting for another club a crime? Heck, I've done it myself (the PPC). It isn't hostile or uncalled for, and I don't think other clubs mind if we recruit there.

In kind of the opposite perspective of "Can we recruit off other club's forums?" The answer to that would be "No" as well. I was asking Kadann about this, and it really comes down to: If we recruit off another club's forums, that gives them the right to recruit/advertise off our forums as well (which we don't want).

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RE: Correction Clarification Read At Your Own Risk

January 28, 2009 1:09:41 AM

Well, at least you all know. Always, ALWAYS keep in mind when jumping the gun over things there is always two (if not more) possible sides to the story.

[This message has been edited by Rizzit (edited January 28, 2009 1:11:48 AM)]

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RE: Clarification. Read At Your Own Risk

January 28, 2009 5:19:30 AM

[11:15:45] (Rizzit) yeah...thats why we have Ibram

I heard that :P

I just like to point out, that whilst this as an isolated incident points to Darr over reacting a tad, I think that it's important to look at the history.

Going by Angel's comments in this log, and from my personal observations, this isn't the first time Angel's made fun of people, or even be rude to people.

I for one am not surprised Darr acted the way he did.

I know from first hand experience that if you push a person too far then that person might snap and do something rash. Whilst Darr's subsequent actions after the first incident were in the wrong - Angel isn't completely blameless either.

Anyway, that's just my two cences..

I suppose this will be moderated out.

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RE: Clarification. Read At Your Own Risk

January 28, 2009 5:34:22 AM

Nah, this is an open forum. While you are right about his history, Angel has been corrected. He's actually kept his nose fairly clean lately... unless provoked. He's been having to defend himself a lot lately. Not saying he couldn't have diffused the situation a bit, but I'm saying that people look at his history and don't see how he's acting now.

If I held grudges like the majority of the VE does, I'd have a shit-list a mile long with people who would get promotions shot down whenever they were recommended. :P If you really and truly have a beef with someone that can't just be shrugged off, try a private conversation. Hell, even if you need someone else there to mediate it. Come find me, and I'll help you two resolve an issue. Passive aggressive comments, whining, and bickering fix nothing. They only feed the flames. Let's be adults here. Even if you aren't one yet.

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RE: Clarification. Read At Your Own Risk

January 28, 2009 11:00:58 AM

This really does make alot more sense now that the facts are presented... its so hard to determine fact from fiction down here in the lower ranks =P.

But now that I see both sides; I must agree that it was the right decision Tal, Darr was just making the problem worse after the fact I think.

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Dante
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RE: Clarification. Read At Your Own Risk

January 28, 2009 2:33:59 PM

Well, Angel's reputation for...being a jerk isn't entirely undeserved. I have to agree that he's a lot better now.

Still, he is partially to blame for the incident, even if Darr went too far.

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RE: Clarification. Read At Your Own Risk

January 28, 2009 2:51:27 PM

Raynald of Châtillon wrote:"I am who I am. Someone needs to be."

Partially to blame for part of it perhaps. You must have missed the part where it was explained Darr /ragequit over:

1) His loss of channel ops, which were probationary, which he abused (sure I teased him, but it wasn't k/b worthy), and my rather...heated response was a result of the ban.

2) He thought he would be demoted, which hadn't been decided upon, nor acted on.
--> By extension, he was constantly threatening to resign anyway

So the only real thing I contributed to was his loss of ops. The rest was his decision to quit. Then his further decision to commit treason according to the CoC.

Am I innocent in all of this? Of course not. Have I earned my reputation? Of course I have. Am I sorry for my reputation? Not in the least. Am I sorry for my actions? Not at all.

Take it anyway you wish, but I didn't hold a gun to his head. We all have free will, and everything he did was ultimately his decision. Let us not forget this little gem:

Quote:[10:55:23] * Angel was kicked by DM (15 minute penalty for being a shithead )
...
[10:55:44] (DM) Praise in public, bitch.

Yep, that sounds like the mature response of an AHC member and channel op.

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[This message has been edited by Angel (edited January 28, 2009 2:56:08 PM)]

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RE: Clarification. Read At Your Own Risk

January 28, 2009 5:29:26 PM

Note the "partially" in my last post. Teased is too mild a word for what you did. If I were in your shoes, I would be sorry for what I'd done. Granted, Darr went much too far, but just because he abused his position and chose to act in an inappropriate manner doesn't mean he had a perfectly legitimate reason for being annoyed. What he did may not be justifiable, but I don't really think what you did then was either.

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RE: Clarification. Read At Your Own Risk

January 28, 2009 6:00:12 PM

Quote: Quote:[10:55:23] * Angel was kicked by DM (15 minute penalty for being a shithead )
...
[10:55:44] (DM) Praise in public, bitch.

angel i'm sorry to quote your quote, but when i read that i fell out of my chair laughing. But if i had just been kicked by someone because i was being a "shithead" would piss me off, I mean, that kind of stuff happens all the time on the IRC channels, people just give each other shit.

Although Angel, does have to take at least half of the blame, but I don't think this was an incident that was worth quiting over, it could have been resovled, I think.

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RE: Clarification. Read At Your Own Risk

January 28, 2009 6:33:50 PM

That reminds me.. thank you. This issue brings an interesting dilemma to the table. How can we tell if someone is joking or not if they kick or kick/ban? I'll bold this so people don't miss this:

From now on, no ops are to be abused in any official VE channel. This protects both parties. Just don't do it.

Violators will be castrated.

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RE: Clarification. Read At Your Own Risk

January 28, 2009 6:45:08 PM

I can see it!
Violators will be castrated. is in small print

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RE: Clarification. Read At Your Own Risk

January 28, 2009 6:51:34 PM

You just abused Talon. Your castration is scheduled for tomorrow.

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RE: Clarification. Read At Your Own Risk

January 28, 2009 8:06:45 PM

Why the delay?

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RE: Clarification. Read At Your Own Risk

January 28, 2009 9:39:29 PM

enough time to sharpen the knives

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RE: Clarification. Read At Your Own Risk

January 28, 2009 11:01:38 PM

so now wadda i do?

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RE: Clarification. Read At Your Own Risk

January 28, 2009 11:43:26 PM

Stop talking?

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Kanderin Draken
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RE: Clarification. Read At Your Own Risk

January 29, 2009 2:56:20 AM

So yeah, what's this topic about again? People acting like children?

May be useful if we could like, stay on that topic and now have it devolve into the pages of spam that are too common nowadays.

Angel did wrong, darr did something worse. I can't force angel to beg for forgiveness, and neither can you dante. So why you may be meaning well, please don't risk inciting this again.

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Dante
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RE: Clarification. Read At Your Own Risk

January 29, 2009 8:21:09 AM

Rest assured, that wasn't what I had in mind. I'm aware that I can't force anyone to do anything, and I won't risk starting another argument. It's just my opinion that both Angel and Darr were in the wrong.

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RE: Clarification. Read At Your Own Risk

January 29, 2009 9:46:38 AM

Well good thing for me I, or anyone that matters, don't care what you think!

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RE: Clarification. Read At Your Own Risk

January 29, 2009 9:53:41 AM

and Angel earns his reputation once again.

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RE: Clarification. Read At Your Own Risk

January 29, 2009 10:26:15 AM

back to topic?

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RE: Clarification. Read At Your Own Risk

January 29, 2009 11:49:22 AM

I think we're all missing a far more serious point here: Talon and his racial hatred against scripts.

If you look at the bottom of all the screenshots, they all say scripts are only partially allowed.

Why only Partially Tal? Do you not think they are as good as normal software? Are the second class citizens?

I shall say this only once: LET MY PEOPLE GO!!!!

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RE: Clarification. Read At Your Own Risk

January 29, 2009 12:20:03 AM

... What?

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Talon
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RE: Clarification. Read At Your Own Risk

January 29, 2009 1:49:18 PM

I allow only what I need to view a webpage's content.

I block any and all ads, flash, and useless javascript.

Now then, let's keep this thread on topic please. I'd rather not delete posts or lock this thread.

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RE: Clarification. Read At Your Own Risk

January 30, 2009 4:28:44 PM

I don't at all disagree with what you did Talon. For what it's worth it seems to me you handled this problem well and I'm not surprised an incident like this happened. The one thing that does really concern me though is that a line seems to have been crossed when it comes to the razor blades comment. I think most of us know Darr has been going through some difficult times in his personal life and unfortunately that all too frequently crossed over to VE interactions which wasn't right. Some of his reactions are part of that and the right thing was to strip him of his powers for abuse. But to use that as a way to provoke seems to be not just crossing into the territory of what is not funny or no longer teasing/making fun at the expense of others, it is a serious personal attack that is never called for and should never be accepted in VE. VE should be a welcoming friendly place for all members, and while that doesn't preclude teasing and poking fun if its all in good fun, it certainly should rule out any attempts to use someone's personal problems to make a mockery of them. No matter how much you know of their problems because of what has been said or done, it is inexcusable to make a quip like that. When that happens, VE ceases to be a safe, welcoming environment for fans of Star Wars and that hurts everyone involved.

Why am I going into all of this? While I won't defend Darr for his actions, I do know he's been going through several challenges in his life and it seems to me that one thing that perhaps hasn't really been well addressed by those in power is nature of the remark in question. I'm just wondering if anything was done to address this particular point.

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