I know- everyone is groaning: "Not another one of these..."  Folks, the aim of this thread won't be, necessarily, to argue with one another so that we leave angrier than when we arrived.  Rather, I'd like for this thread to be informational- I thought with the wealth of knowledge and highly intelligent as well as informed members of the VE, we could create a bit of a cost and analysis of what's happening and, who knows, come to a consensus on, at least, what our thoughts are about the war.  If for no one else, I, at least, would love to hear people's opinions of the war.  I'll gladly fight in support of what I think, but, and this is my hope, that position may very well change if people provide me with good enough information in a different direction.  With so much riding on the nation's thoughts about this war- it should be discussed everywhere, even a Star Wars roleplaying message board.  So here's what I think so far:

To tell you folks the truth- I haven't spoken much about this because the entire topic is so ambiguous: are we there for political/oil gains or to help the people, etc... Rather, the only way I could come up with any side was to get past the inevitable corruption and mistakes that were made; it is my oppinion that the past is now somewhat irrelevant and that we must look at the situation currently playing out.  I've had to be quiet- listen more than I speak, even to some of the more elaborate and expansive plots or schemes, but I'd say I've learned quite a bit and I've made some deductions:

The initial reason we entered the war (the WMDs bit) is obviously no longer relevant, and the use of the term "War On Terror" is one that I believe may be scaring off our allies, (allies we need to effectively end this war)- it's too ambiguous, unending and uncertain to advocate. Furthermore, the media has outstanding presence in American culture; their lack of reports concerning any positive effects of the war have probably led people in the opposite direction. That's not to say that they're purposefully casting aspersions toward our president or the surge, but the emphasis has certainly been on the destructive nature of the war.  People can't help but be against it.

So, the question now, I suppose, is- do we stay for the people? As far as I'm concerned: yes.  Yes on both counts: because it's the right thing to do (sound morally naive yet?), and yes because it's advantageous to the United States.  I only explore the latter because it, in the opinion of many, is the only way things are decided around here...  So how is it advantageous?  If we remove our foothold and these thugs decide to set up shop around the region, when the world finally decides enough is enough- it's going to be a heck of a lot harder to get back in, won't it?  Costing the United States more man power and money.  Furthermore, stabilizing the oil regions, for all those conspiracy theory/realists out there, can only look like a good prospect for some of the higher-ups.  On the moral side of things: c'mon- this is a place where women burn themselves alive to escape their day-to-day lives- something's goin on with that.  It's bad enough we ignore Darfur, can we really ignore a region where we actually have a foothold?

Folks: think through your answers, post with passion if you must, but don't post angry- we're trying to inform one another- not murder eachother.  Thanks for any replies I can get- I'm really looking for as many points of view as possible; keep rockin.

I agree; we need to finish up in Iraq/Afghanistan, and come home, close our borders, and focus on fixing our totally screwed inner problems.

the US is the last super power, but abuse of power is really starting to get old. Democracy is only viable to those who have no power, so stop trying to put it on people with dictators.

See, this is how America should fight a war:
-Disagree with country.
-Petition the UN to interfere
-Cut all trade with said country
-Get allies to cut trade
-Don't bitch and moan if they won't

Country, minus a huge trading partner, falls slowly apart; someone compromises, so both America and the enemy country win, sorta.

If we would stop interfering with other countries, we might be able to lower military expenditures to about a quarter of what it is.

Or, instead of massive amounts of soldiers, we just send Green Berets or SEALS, or the Navy.

Cutting most ties and dependencies on foreign countries (like the middle East for oil, or some of the south American countries), could only be helpful.

In summary; bring our troops home after we're done; cut military spending, but keep a decent sized military to discourage attacks; keep a large Navy; work on making ourselves quasi-independent; stop fighting wars we have no say in (holds up Vietnam).

Heh, America can't pull out though that's the problem. If we pull out, chances are we're gonna get bombed again and we're going to be very vulnerable. Yeah, it sounds nice when all the candidates for President say they're gonna pull us out, but they're not going to and thats the hard truth. We're in a mess now that's gonna take a while to clean up, and thats the harsh reality of the situation.

Correct me if I'm wrong please.