Vukan
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Post Number: 278
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RE: Continuance of Pay Day topic...
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February 5, 2004
12:37:14 AM
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Okay...I cant exactly remember all of fury's points from the other topic, but I will try and catch the ones that stuck out to me as quickly and efficiently as possible.
First of all, I never said I hadnt seen any racism anywhere, because I have.
Secondly, I have lived in Denver, New York City, Connecticut, and Kuwait City. So, of course I realize NYC is nothing like Denver, and Kuwait City is nothing like either.
Thirdly (if thats a word), I never said they hired based on race, I said there was no hugely disproportionate percentages of colored or hispanic to white people hired, if they were in the top ten percent of their class in college and had a good resume and such.
Now, brb while I go see if I missed anything of importance. -----------------------
FM/Leading Crewman Vukan/Kaph 2-3/Phoenix Wing/mSSD Atrus/Defensive Fleet/VEN/VE
"And he smote them hip and thigh with a great slaughter: and he went down and dwelt in the top of the rock Etam." -Judges 15:8 |
Fury
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RE: Continuance of Pay Day topic...
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February 5, 2004
12:45:30 AM
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First, I must have misread: "Dont give me that bull about being white, I have met very few people who will discriminate against black or hispanic people." because that implies you do not see a lot of racism. In some walks of life you don't. Which is something we should try to provide for everyone.
Seond, I'm glad you are expanding your horizons.
Third, I never proposed anyone hire by quota. I said they hired according to their marketing. Which is how all companies should do it. Which is different, unless, like you, people want to hang a label on a progressive business practice. -----------------------
PRF/GEN Fury/VEA/TADATH/VE [SCP][PoC][SotE:HC][SotE:VEA][IOC]
Prefect - Stormtrooper Corps
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Vukan
ComNet Cadet
Post Number: 278
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RE: Continuance of Pay Day topic...
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February 5, 2004
12:45:51 AM
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There were some other things there that I probably should answer but won't. And I dont see how it is twisting your words when you say life is good if you are a rich white republican, and yeah, I know, I didnt exactly phrase that correctly either, so sue me. I will catch you on any generalizations you make because I learned long ago (NOT from online stuff so you dont think I am alluding to that), that people will catch you for every generalization you make and then make generalizations of their own. It happens, and I didnt mean to get you so angry about it. -----------------------
FM/Leading Crewman Vukan/Kaph 2-3/Phoenix Wing/mSSD Atrus/Defensive Fleet/VEN/VE
"And he smote them hip and thigh with a great slaughter: and he went down and dwelt in the top of the rock Etam." -Judges 15:8 |
Vukan
ComNet Cadet
Post Number: 278
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RE: Continuance of Pay Day topic...
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February 5, 2004
12:48:24 AM
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I am trying to expand my horizons to prevent occurrances such as this from ahppening :-p obviously I am too late. I dont see much racism, not in Denver, but I did in NYC and there isnt much in Kuwait, people just know their place there...and for clarification's sake, the rich are rich and then there is a poor woirking class for the most part, almost NO middle class, and peoplethere understand that. -----------------------
FM/Leading Crewman Vukan/Kaph 2-3/Phoenix Wing/mSSD Atrus/Defensive Fleet/VEN/VE
"And he smote them hip and thigh with a great slaughter: and he went down and dwelt in the top of the rock Etam." -Judges 15:8 |
Fury
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RE: Continuance of Pay Day topic...
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February 5, 2004
12:55:31 AM
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Understanding and acceptance are two very different things.
And did you just actually say "people just know their place there"?
I'll let someone else tackle that one. -----------------------
PRF/GEN Fury/VEA/TADATH/VE [SCP][PoC][SotE:HC][SotE:VEA][IOC]
Prefect - Stormtrooper Corps
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Vukan
ComNet Cadet
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RE: Continuance of Pay Day topic...
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February 5, 2004
1:03:26 PM
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I obviously didnt mean it like that, as I said for clarifications sake, the rich know they are rich and dont acknowledge the poor. The poor know they are poor and try and work their way up. They know where they are and what tehy have to do to get higher in their society. I didnt mean it in a derogatory fashion, but I am sure after living there for a while you would catch my meaning a lot quicker and not be shocked by what I say. -----------------------
FM/Leading Crewman Vukan/Kaph 2-3/Phoenix Wing/mSSD Atrus/Defensive Fleet/VEN/VE
"And he smote them hip and thigh with a great slaughter: and he went down and dwelt in the top of the rock Etam." -Judges 15:8 |
chipmunk man
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RE: Continuance of Pay Day topic...
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February 6, 2004
11:36:40 AM
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Wellfare can kiss my butt. I work dang hard for what little I make, and it's physical labor, too. I'll be danged if some lazy friggin' idiot is going to sit on his butt and suck my tax dollars through some friggin wellfare program.
A friend of mine is a shop teacher in an inner-city high school. He has three students in particular: two have kids and one is pregnant. They are 16 or younger, and make enough money from the danged wellfare program to live ON THEIR OWN in NICE appartments with NICE cars and live comfortably. They don't have jobs because they KNOW THAT THEY DON'T NEED THEM THANKS TO MY TAX DOLLARS! Is that fair? I work my little butt off to feed some danged lazy [edited] who can't get up off her couch and get her own job?
[Edit: Please watch your language. -Tal]
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"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstien
"There is a certain kind of peace that can be found only on the other side of war." -Sean Connery as King Arthur in "First Knight."
FL/PO2 Chipmunk Man/Kaph 3-1/Phoenix/mSSD Atrus/DEF/VEN/VE/(=A=)[LoC][MC:1]
[This message has been edited by
Talon
(edited February 6, 2004
11:43:43 AM)]
[This message has been edited by
chipmunk man
(edited February 9, 2004
6:54:24 PM)]
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Fury
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RE: Continuance of Pay Day topic...
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February 6, 2004
2:51:30 PM
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I found it interesting that he referred to people who have birthed children as homosexuals right off the bat.
In any case, near as I can tell from people I know who work in government, you can not have a new or "nice" car and still be on welfare. The rules just don't allow for it as it is an asset. You can't have usable assets and be considered in poverty. Though the children must throw the formula off a bit I presume.
As for people whose home situation we know nothing about (abusing and unsupportive parents?), I'd say judging them a priori is a tad overexcessive. Besides, as you stated, these individuals are not among those "who can't get up off her couch and get her own job" seeing as, by your own admission, they are attempting to get an education and raise a child at the same time.
There definitely are cases of welfare abuse out there and I agree those cases need to be tackled and dealt with honestly and without any partisan BS. These instances however, do not appear to be so. At least according to my view on the subject. You may feel comfortable leaving unwed mothers and their children out in the cold without an education, but I'm not.
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PRF/GEN Fury/VEA/TADATH/VE [SCP][PoC][SotE:HC][SotE:VEA][IOC]
Prefect - Stormtrooper Corps
Administrator - Imperial Center
[This message has been edited by
Fury
(edited February 6, 2004
2:52:05 PM)]
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Sniping101
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RE: Continuance of Pay Day topic...
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February 6, 2004
7:42:42 PM
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i admit that i wasnt on this topic before it got moved over here so i might not know all the facts but here i go. . .
ok, we all know im the son of the devil when it comes to these conversations, but im gonna haveta agree with Chipmunk (as much as it might kill me) i lived for awhile in afamily that lived off wellfare, and we managed a new truck a 4 bedroom two bath house and a 32inch tv(that was big at that time) and my dad was a worthless drunk and his wife was no better, except she had 5 (literally) daughters.
also living in Couer d'ALENE i knew a girl who got pregnant specificaly for wellfare, and i believe she had to stay in school to recieve it.
My personal opinion is that if you or your spouse cant support the family they should be left out in the cold.(and believe me, i went for a stretch when i was living with my dad wher we lived out of a car so dont give me the bs of "Youd feel diffrent if it wher happening to you)
and this is just to further protect myself from having to reply to an attack on my character- My parents make me pay rent payu for uttilities and my food and my gass, my insurence and my car, basicaly everything comes out of my own pocket -----------------------
Formaly the Perpetual PFC
TRP/FTC/SGT Sniping101/CrazyRAIDERS/1PLT/1COM/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE [LoR][IH][BoA]
"Ther is Nothing so Exilerating as being Shot at without Result" - Winston Churchill
Sanitys Last Stop |
chipmunk man
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RE: Continuance of Pay Day topic...
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February 9, 2004
6:52:18 PM
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My apologies for the language. I was out of line. -----------------------
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstien
"There is a certain kind of peace that can be found only on the other side of war." -Sean Connery as King Arthur in "First Knight."
FL/PO2 Chipmunk Man/Kaph 3-1/Phoenix/mSSD Atrus/DEF/VEN/VE/(=A=)[LoC][MC:1] |
chipmunk man
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RE: Continuance of Pay Day topic...
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February 9, 2004
6:59:31 PM
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Please note that this example is taken from my friend. All I know is what he told me, which I have repeated to you here.
The only reason the girls are still in school is not because they want to further themselves with an education, but because of truancy laws. They are under 18, and thus are required by the Feds to stay in school. The kids are little more than cash bags, as that is the source of wellfare income. -----------------------
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstien
"There is a certain kind of peace that can be found only on the other side of war." -Sean Connery as King Arthur in "First Knight."
FL/PO2 Chipmunk Man/Kaph 3-1/Phoenix/mSSD Atrus/DEF/VEN/VE/(=A=)[LoC][MC:1] |
Fury
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RE: Continuance of Pay Day topic...
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February 9, 2004
7:42:23 PM
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Unless you have actually asked them if that is their intent, that's slander buddy.
I'm not saying you are right or wrong, just letting you know that hearsay can get you into a lot of trouble. -----------------------
PRF/GEN Fury/VEA/TADATH/VE [SCP][PoC][SotE:HC][SotE:VEA][IOC]
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Dragoon
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RE: Continuance of Pay Day topic...
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February 12, 2004
3:55:41 PM
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My family was on welfare for a time, and we needed it. And we got out of it, which I believe that's what you're supposed to do on welfare, and that is work until you don't need it any more. I don't think that you're a lazy bum if you need assistance, although there are no doubt cases in which involve people who just don't want to get jobs. Until you can speak of every possiblity fairly, don't judge everyone on welfare as lazy bums. While I don't find it personally offensive, I do think that you're an obnoxious ass for suggesting such. -----------------------
SSGT Dragoon
Roses are Red
And Ready for Plucking
You're Sixteen
And Ready for High School |
chipmunk man
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RE: Continuance of Pay Day topic...
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February 13, 2004
5:59:09 AM
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I think wellfare can be could in certain cases, and yours appears to be one of the good stories. I think to recieve wellfare, one should prove that they are at least trying to find a job, and that if you legitimately cannot find work that is alright. It is these cases of lazy people who could work but refuse to that drives me insane. -----------------------
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstien
"There is a certain kind of peace that can be found only on the other side of war." -Sean Connery as King Arthur in "First Knight."
"People like you are the reason people like me take medication." -Cool T-shirt
FL/PO2 Chipmunk Man/Kaph 3-1/Phoenix/mSSD Atrus/DEF/VEN/VE/(=A=)[LoC][MC:1] |
Sniping101
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RE: Continuance of Pay Day topic...
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February 15, 2004
10:50:32 PM
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ya, im with Chipy on this one; i mearly dont like warefare because so many people just live off it and dont even try for a job. and Fury if you were talking to me, i do know the girl and its fairly common knowledge that that was her intent, she was a good friend of mine and whe told me quite plainly that was her intent. -----------------------
Formaly the Perpetual PFC
TRP/FTC/SGT Sniping101/CrazyRAIDERS/1PLT/1COM/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE [LoR][IH][BoA]
I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle, here is my spout. When I see an ARC all short and stout, BOOM! He flies through the hall and out. -anonymous
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Fury
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RE: Continuance of Pay Day topic...
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February 16, 2004
9:48:30 PM
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What's sad here is that people fall into stereotypes so quickly. I do it, so does everyone else. What's really pathetic about the welfare concept is that people actually get so wound up about a couple of admittedly poor cases and distribute that out to anyone accepting public assistance. Its like seeing a KKK rally and assuming all whites are blood-thirsty, cross-burning racists. The test does not confirm the theory but you could easily convince yourself it is so apparently.
Its a slipperly slope towards some real wrong-headed thinking and, like so many other things, its important to see the forest for the trees. -----------------------
PRF/GEN Fury/VEA/TADATH/VE [SCP][PoC][SotE:HC][SotE:VEA][IOC]
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