Almost forgot to explain to Fury.  Basically, my belief is that an Atheist does not believe in any God in any shape, form, or construct.  An Agnostic either does or does not believe in a God(but not an established religion), but at the very least, they believe in a spiritual force.  That's my understanding of it anyways. As to Geist, just because you can't imagine life without a God doesn't mean I can't 
 
-----------------------
Argon Viper
IW COL Argon Viper{ret}
"History is on the move, those who cannot keep up will watch from a distance, and those who get in our way will not watch at all" - Grand Admiral Thrawn
"In combat, second place is only the last to die."- Anonymous
"Condemnation does not liberate, it oppresses" - Carl G Jung
"The only thing that will never change is that everything will change" - Argon Viper

I know the dictionary explanations.  I was kinda more leaning towards how people come to this approach. Sometimes the story is better than the answer you receive.
 
-----------------------
XO/LTC Fury/VEA/TADATH/VE [PoC][SotE:HC][SotE:VEA][IOC]
Company Commander
Shopkeeper - Imperial Center

Ahh, now that you explain it that way it works.  I'd have to say that science fills the void.  Clear, beautiful, provable science  Fury: Do you need more info or can I assume you understand what I mean by athiest? JMac: That toga makes you an exhibitionist, not a Roman.  However, I can define God how I wish, and that's my right to do so  /me flings his toga wrap around him in a majestic gesture... ...gets it caught on his feet and hits the ground... Ow...   
 
-----------------------
Argon Viper
IW COL Argon Viper{ret}
"History is on the move, those who cannot keep up will watch from a distance, and those who get in our way will not watch at all" - Grand Admiral Thrawn
"In combat, second place is only the last to die."- Anonymous
"Condemnation does not liberate, it oppresses" - Carl G Jung
"The only thing that will never change is that everything will change" - Argon Viper

Geist, if you design a theory yourself knowing all relevant information, all I have to say is that it darned well better explain everything, or you're not that good of a theorist  Anyways, I have no idea the point of that rant, only the personality that you were at the time could tell you that  Anyways, the reason I believe in atoms, electron clouds, and the like is that they have been proven mathematically to within an almost infinitesimal degree of complete proof.
 
-----------------------
Argon Viper
IW COL Argon Viper{ret}
"History is on the move, those who cannot keep up will watch from a distance, and those who get in our way will not watch at all" - Grand Admiral Thrawn
"In combat, second place is only the last to die."- Anonymous
"Condemnation does not liberate, it oppresses" - Carl G Jung
"The only thing that will never change is that everything will change" - Argon Viper

Clear beautiful, provable science? you are joking right? There are so many differenct explanations for everything ih physics, each one constantly being revised that i don't think it can be called that
 
-----------------------
SL/SGMTRaziel/4SQD/1COMP/1BAT/1RGT/Tadath/VEA/ {EW1} {WoS} {VP}
Squad Leader - Squad4 Wraiths
"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989.

Very well stated, JMac.  The BS of evolution comes to mind.  Luckily, my bio II teacher in school let us explore evolution vs. creationism and let us form our own opinion, instead of force-feeding us what he believed or what the government told him to teach. 
 
-----------------------
Rear Admiral Riel Fury
Navy Commander In Chief
Krath Prophet(ess), Dark Lord of the Krath, Cult Member in Elite Griffen Sect
Give in to your hatred.  Give in to your anger.  Give in to the Dark Side.

I for one believe that Evolution should be taught in our schools. I just think it should be taught for what it is, a theory, AND I believe that teachers of the subject shouldn't be so shy to point out all the flaws, inconsistencies, and outright acts of fraud that have been proping it up all these years. Same goes for the Big bang. Teach it as a theory, show all the evidence, but don't be afraid to also teach alternate theories like plasma cosmology or c-gravitons. And the environmental "problems" like global warming or the hole in the ozone layer should be just tossed out, but then I might be biased because my dad is an environmental chemist that can point out most of the problems with both theories without breaking a sweat.
 
-----------------------
"Some day we'll all look back on this and cringe."
~Uncle Yo-sim, All Knowing Bartender

Hello from a history-loving, god fearing liberal non-denominational Christian: ....Cut and Pasted... The simple fact is that the American way was not based on a God at all, in fact, most of the founding fathers were humanists, believers that God created us but that we were there to decide our own way, not Christians as is publicly touted. .............. I would personally like to know where you got this information.  I've read the website that you linked and I find nothing in there proving much of anything.  It's a well-known historical fact that all but one of the founding fathers could quote the bible scripture and verse.  They believed at the time you couldn't even call yourself an American if you subverted the word of god (then when they said that they went home and had sex with their slaves behind their wife's back).  So please re-read the Declaration of Independance, the Bill of Rights, and other documents written by our christian forefathers.  You will see their christian beliefs in most of their published documents.  They believed in a nation under god.  They also believed in religeous freedom; which is the reason why they put that little bit in there about freedom from church and state.  Whether they were right or wrong has yet to be seen.  As there sons and daughters slaughtered thousands of Native Americans (who I happen to be part of as well).  All I know is that I'm a firm believer in the meaning of the bible.  I live a good life based on peace, happiness, and hard work to keep my country strong.  I'm god fearing for the sole reason that there is too much evidence that god does exist to completely disprove him.  The only thing that upsets me is when people use their beliefs as an excuse to attack others for their beliefs.  Otherwise I could careless who believes in what; whether its atheism, Christianity, Muslim, etc.  Live a life of peace, happiness, and the ability to forgive and forget the transgressions of others; as well as your own transgressions.  Even if the others choose to remain hateful of you.  Anyone use a Websters Dictionary lately?  It's original author could also quote the bible.  So next time you curse...Think about what you are saying.  You just might be asking "god" to "damn" someone or something. 
 
-----------------------
--SIGNED--
Adalric Majere, DJM
Head of the High Council (ret)

am i allowed to second that? anyways, i can quote many parts of the bible, if not word for word at least the gist of it and i believwe in the new testament of the bible only, and none of the parts about god, just a few of Jesus' philosophies. I don't have any certain religion, and i don't believe in any "gods", i believe in philosophies
 
-----------------------
WC/LCM G5

Now now Three.  Majere may not be an active member but he's still got the right to speak on this board, after all the lounge comnet as I understand it is open to any and all as long as they behaive themselves. Now where was I? Oh yes, now I remeber. Everything in our world only exists because we believe it exists. Our explanations of what we percieve become the foundation of our religion. Science is as much a religion to me as is Islam, Judaism, or Christianity. They all work because people believe they do.  Each are equally valid explanations of life and the universe.  None is any better or worse then the other.  It is the application of these religions that makes them good or evil depending on one's own moral values. Fortunately for pagans like me there is a great deal of leeway despite overwhelming christian influences(hen there are about one church for every thousand people, such as in where I live, I tend to keep my religious stance a non-issue).
 
-----------------------
RA(U) Daishi COSOS
"If we had all knowladge then why would we seek what we already know and if we had no knowladge then how could we even ask the question?"  Plato
"Indeceant exposure is fun." Sonatina
"There are at least three sides to any situation." Me

Allright 3, I guess I can live with that. Our founding fathers were politicians straight through and through. From thier offical documents we see a lot of concesions to the largely purist population. Unfortunately thier private documents don't reveal as much as we'd like about what they actually where.
 
-----------------------
RA(U) Daishi COSOS
"If we had all knowladge then why would we seek what we already know and if we had no knowladge then how could we even ask the question?"  Plato
"Indeceant exposure is fun." Sonatina
"There are at least three sides to any situation." Me

and what the hell do you think this is?

LOL!  This is open again?  They still say it in your school because the decision was overturned.  And as far as being called Yankees, all i can say is: Yankee Doodle came to London riding on a pony, stuck a feather in his cap and called it macaroni! Yankee Doodle keep it up, Yankee Doodle dandy, mind the music and the tap, and with the girls be handy!
 
-----------------------
NTO/LCM JMac/ISD Overlord/Raptor 9/(=A=)(=SA=)(MC1)

You may see me as only a drunken, vice ridden gnome whose only companions are pimps and girls from the brothels.  But I know about art and love, if only because I long for it with every fiber of my being.
~Moulin Rouge