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Topic:  BSG: Whos the Fifth? Discussion(Possible Spoilers)
C-3PX2
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  BSG: Whos the Fifth? Discussion(Possible Spoilers)
April 15, 2008 6:37:46 PM    View the profile of C-3PX2 
I know a few people in the VE watch Battlestar Galactica, so I wanted to see about other Opinions on who exactly the Final Fifth Humanoid Cylon Model would be.

So Far the Revealed Eleven are:
01: "Brother Cavil"
02: "Leoben Conoy"
03: "D'ana Biers" (Currently the Only "Boxed" Model)
04: "Simon"
05: "Aaron Doral"
06: Number Six, Caprica Six, "Shelly Godfrey", "Gina Inviere", "Natalie"
08: "Sharon", "Lt. Sharon 'Boomer' Valeii", "Lt. Sharon 'Athena' Agathon" (has "Human-Cylon Hybrid Child")
07, 09 - 11: (Four of the Final Five)
* Cheif Petty Officer Galen Tyrol (has Possible "Human-Cylon Hybrid Child")
* Colonel Saul Tigh
* Ensign Samuel Anders
* Tory Foster

The Question is... who is the Final Fifth Cylon?
I am hoping to get the views of other Vast Empire Members who watch BSG, on who they think it is.

From my own digging, there are only Eight Possible Characters who could be the Fifth. From who, only four of which would have any impact onto the story.
1. Lt. Felix Gaeta
2. Lt. Anastasia Dualla
3. Petty Officer 2nd Class Cally Tyrol
4. Vice President Tom Zarek

5. Dr. Cottle
6. Ensign Diana “Hardball” Seelix
7. Lt. Margret “Racetrack” Edmondson
8. Lt. Brendan “Hotdog” Costanza
(Bold are the Remaining Supporting Characters in the Series, Underlines is my pick for most likely.)

These Characters have Names and Stories, though the Supporting Characters of the Series have story-lines that could have a major impact on the series if they are revealed to be the final fifth cylon humanoid model.

To Support my pick of "Vice President Tom Zarek" as being the final fifth cylon, I look at this. One, Who would have the most impact out of those characters if revealed to be the 5th? Someone withing the Highest Reaches of the Government (either Military or Political). Seeing as President Laura Roslin is in the "Last Supper" Picture (which it has been said in multiple interviews, that any character in the picture Is NOT the 5th cylon) It could not be her. Alternatively, There are no Remaining High Ranking Military Officers who are not already revealed or in the picture above.

This Brings us back to the Political Government. Roslin is out, she is not a cylon, Her Aide "Tory Foster" was revealed to be a Final Five Cylon, so who does that live in the Highest Reaches of the Colonial Government? Vice President Tom Zarek. He has a History, as all the Final Fifth Cylons do, he was a "Political Activist" (a convicted Terrorist), along with a former member of the Quorum of Twelve. He has the History, the Character, the Impact to be the Final Fifth Cylon. Though the True Final Fifth has yet to be revealed.



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Gshlecc
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  RE: BSG: Whos the Fifth? Discussion(Possible Spoil
April 16, 2008 12:05:06 AM    View the profile of Gshlecc 
i'd buy Zarek. plus, w/him being played by richard hatch, the original apollo, it makes for a nice full cirlcle story.
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  RE: BSG: Whos the Fifth? Discussion(Possible Spoil
April 16, 2008 6:35:14 AM    View the profile of Ibram Tyrol 
I personally disagree with all of those, because in the episode where D'ana sees the final five, when she looks at who i am assuming is the fifth one, she says "it's you. I'm sorry i didn't know".

In my opinion, none of the current four, or the possible final five's, would warrant that reaction from her. I'm guessing either Lee, The Admiral, Roslin, or Baltar. Starbuck too, but i have feeling that something entirely different is in store for her.

I have no idea what you're talking about with this "final supper" picture thing, but TV people have been known to lie to hide plot endings. (e.g. New series Dr. Who season 1 ending)

However, Cally being a cylon would make sense, because if she isn't then, then they also have a human-cylon hybrid child, which detracts from the significance of Hera.

5- 8 have too minor roles to warrant being Cylons in my opinion, but gaeta and dualla would be my choices from your list. Zarek....I'm not too sure...your reasons are quite sound...but i don't know...
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  RE: BSG: Whos the Fifth? Discussion(Possible Spoil
April 16, 2008 7:13:29 AM    View the profile of Tomas 
I'll post my thoughts later (have to goto work), but here is the Last Supper C-3 referred to.

Last Supper
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  RE: BSG: Whos the Fifth? Discussion(Possible Spoil
April 16, 2008 1:54:33 PM    View the profile of Cosmic 
I was thinking Cally perhaps, but since the Chief is already a Cylon, it didn't really make sense to make Cally into a Cylon as well.

I then decided perhaps it was Admiral Adama - but since the XO is already in the Final Five, that probably wouldn't be as dramatic.

Roslin, I don't think so. I don't know why the Cylons would create a Roslin, give her cancer, and help the humans find Earth.

My top three are Lee Adama, Kara Thrace (Starbuck), and Guias Baltar. Lee because it would make an awesome twist: the Admiral's son a Cylon. Kara Thrace because it could sort of tie into what each individual Cylon was designed for: Brother Cavil - the divine one, etc. Kara may be in a similar boat as being an "enlightened one" or something.

Guias Baltar was always on my mind though. He's been with a Cylon since the beginning, he sees Six in his mind all the time, he has an obvious connection with them (and they haven't killed him, despite the fact that he was on their ship).

It would be an interesting case though if Roslin was a Cylon, because that would somewhat make Kara the "woman that leads them to Earth" since she's the one with the vision and obvious know-how route to the planet they've been searching for.


That's my two cents anyway.
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  RE: BSG: Whos the Fifth? Discussion(Possible Spoil
April 16, 2008 3:50:14 PM    View the profile of Tomas 
My current guess at the fifth cylon (until I can come somehow recall more characters that haven't already been mentioned) is also Tom Zarek.

I'm going to start with this ... when D'anna sees the final five and says "it's you. I'm sorry, I didn't know" to presumably the fifth cylon (though it could very well have been Tigh who was kept prisoner on New Caprica). Thinking back the only ones it can be are the main characters: the Adamas, Roslin, Starbuck, Baltar. But I strongly trust the Last Supper hints and also have reasons for those five not being cylons later in this post. The only ones she could possibly be apologizing to of the rest of them are Cally and Tom Zarek for having them on the death list on New Caprica (though yes, I realize that's quite a reach).

Between Galen being a cylon, and the two of them having a baby I find it nearly impossible for Cally to be the fifth (in fact I'm willing to bet she isn't). Though have to say that'd be a crazy twist to have a "full cylon baby" in the fleet.

Tom Zarek: important in the political scheme, played by the Apollo of the original series. Good fit in my opinion.

William Adama: With Tigh already a cylon, making the Commander the fifth cylon simply doesn't make any sense.

Lee Adama: Only thing I really have is the Last Supper picture I guess. But he better not be the fifth as he's my favourite character on the show. ALSO, he's the son of William Adama ... I dunno, that seems like a hard "history" to make up ... even harder than Tigh (which I know C-3 still finds unbelievable)

Laura Roslin: She has cancer, plain and simple. I'm sorry but her and Commander Adama are just too "powerful" to be the final cylon on top of that.

Gaius Baltar: He has something special in store for him, and it's not through finding out he's the final cylon. He's desperately wanted to be a cylon to explain all the betrayal he had done in the past, but to end up actually being one I think it's the easy way out. That and the "head Six" and "head Baltar" deal. I feel they serve as the link between humans and cylons and that can't really be possible if Baltar's a cylon.

Starbuck: She too has something special in store for her as the "harbringer of doom". How she came back from the dead I have no idea, but she's not the final cylon.

Hopefully some of that made sense, I know I didn't make very good arguments in some cases.
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[This message has been edited by Tomas (edited April 16, 2008 4:04:59 PM)]
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  RE: BSG: Whos the Fifth? Discussion(Possible Spoil
April 17, 2008 12:33:38 AM    View the profile of Cosmic 
Concerning Starbuck, I'd like to see how the BSG writers explain how her Viper is in mint condition.
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  RE: BSG: Whos the Fifth? Discussion(Possible Spoil
April 17, 2008 7:53:28 AM    View the profile of Ibram Tyrol 
Hmmm..i just looked at the final supper thing. Very interesting indeed.   
Although the Moore doesn't explicitly say that no one at the table is the fifth, it does suggest as much.

So if that's true, that rules out pretty much all my suggestions. Zarek would make sense in a...poetic sense. Original Apollo and all that like Tom said.

If D'ana's reaction does apply to one of the new four, then it is always quite possible that a new character will be introduced who will be the fifth cylon.

I liked the lawyer who was on Balthar's case at the end of season 3, if he comes back, he would be an interesting choice...

This season should be immense though. Anyone see Razor?
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- Innocence is the cost of Justice

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  RE: BSG: Whos the Fifth? Discussion(Possible Spoil
April 17, 2008 8:18:56 AM    View the profile of Tomas 
Cosmic wrote:Concerning Starbuck, I'd like to see how the BSG writers explain how her Viper is in mint condition.

The same way she is in "mint condition".

Anyways, I do believe Romo Lampkin is coming back this season (as is D'Anna) I just have no idea when. I'm loving the season so far.

I really can't see them revealing a new character and making them the final cylon. That just seems ... cheap ... and lowballish after all this. If they do, it better be some "person" they find in some significant system/nebula or something (ie not someone in the fleet right now that we've never met).

And yes, Ibram ... I've seen Razor. Didn't quite watch it was "hard/closely" or enjoy it as much as the rest of the
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  RE: BSG: Whos the Fifth? Discussion(Possible Spoil
April 17, 2008 12:42:06 AM    View the profile of Darr-Rann 
My first guess would be Baltar, then Starbuck. I know it isnt any of the Adamas, because there's a TV show planned about their family history. Unless Lee's mother was a six or something - that would be a twist.

On the topic of BSG, but not the final five, I'd like to remind everyone of something. In Razor, the hybrid aboard the basestar told the woman (I forget her name, the XO) that humanity must not follow Starbuck. Perhaps this is a hint that her "sense" is really a trap for humanity.
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  RE: BSG: Whos the Fifth? Discussion(Possible Spoil
April 20, 2008 5:53:01 AM    View the profile of Ibram Tyrol 
I suppose tom, but then again i didn't think that the choices for the four of five were that great either.

Tigh and Tyrol fine, but Anders and Tory haven't been there since the beginning, and them turning out to be cylons seems a bit...random.

Its liked Anders said, "After the resistance, new caprica...for this!?" Just seems a bit weak.

Tory i can sort of understand, as i think billy's character quit to do something else, hence the need to bring Tory in. If billy had stayed then i assume he would have been the cylon.

I was just about to say there is Tigh;s wife, as it was never confirmed whether or not she was a cylon, but then she's dead now....possibly lol.

All this theorising makes my head hurt...
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  RE: BSG: Whos the Fifth? Discussion(Possible Spoil
April 20, 2008 3:35:48 PM    View the profile of Ibram Tyrol 
Oh my fricking God....

Trust me, it's NOT Cally.

(Just watched episodes 1, 2, and 3 of season 4, nuff said.)
"I'm no Physician, but there appears to be a dagger through my chest."

- Innocence is the cost of Justice

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  RE: BSG: Whos the Fifth? Discussion(Possible Spoil
April 20, 2008 4:22:12 PM    View the profile of AlanRJ 
Definitely not Cally.

My money is on Baltar.
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  RE: BSG: Whos the Fifth? Discussion(Possible Spoil
April 20, 2008 4:28:10 PM    View the profile of Cosmic 
For those that watched the latest episode, Cally was ejected into space.
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  RE: BSG: Whos the Fifth? Discussion(Possible Spoil
April 21, 2008 9:13:32 AM    View the profile of Ibram Tyrol 
I was trying not to spoil it, but i guess any true fan would have watched the episode by now.

So Cally's down, and i don't think it can be Baltar due to the Last Supper photo.

Although I'll admit, I'm a little skeptical about it, as it has been openly criticized by Chief Tyrol's character, and whilst Moore has defended it, I wasn't too convinced.

I love the fact that Baltar saw the "vision" version himself that Caprica Six kept seeing...
"I'm no Physician, but there appears to be a dagger through my chest."

- Innocence is the cost of Justice

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  RE: BSG: Whos the Fifth? Discussion(Possible Spoil
April 21, 2008 11:37:37 AM    View the profile of Cosmic 
I'm thinking the Chief gave "the order" to eject Cally - just because of how things fell into place.
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  RE: BSG: Whos the Fifth? Discussion(Possible Spoil
April 21, 2008 2:49:16 PM    View the profile of Tomas 
Was Cally just trying to eject Nikolas, the hybrid or commit suicide herself as well? Either way, told ya it wasn't her, lol.

And Ibram, I agree ... Anders and Tory were random though as you said, Tory makes sense what with Billy's guy going off to do other stuff. Anders was gaining a bigger and bigger role in the series though. Leader of the resistance on Caprica, married to Starbuck, leader of resistance on New Caprica ... I wouldn't exactly call him random. (The resistance on New Caprica seems to be what ties the three new male cylons together in a way)

I have no problem with it being a character who's had limited screen time in the first three seasons (as long as we know them somewhat well). But if they introduce a brand new character in the fourth season and say "I'm the fifth cylon" ... I'm probably not going to like the decision.
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  RE: BSG: Whos the Fifth? Discussion(Possible Spoil
April 21, 2008 3:10:44 PM    View the profile of Cosmic 
Maybe it's the doc.
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Ibram Tyrol
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  RE: BSG: Whos the Fifth? Discussion(Possible Spoil
April 21, 2008 3:14:40 PM    View the profile of Ibram Tyrol 
A bit too minor if you ask me, and i can't see the significance of him being the final cylon.

I'm still counting on the final supper photo being slightly false, and that one of the majors is the final cylon...possibly Roslin. I doubt either of the Adama's are cylons, because if one is so must the other, but it would be a nice Irony...

But from C-3's list, im swinging towards Zarek too.
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  RE: BSG: Whos the Fifth? Discussion(Possible Spoil
April 21, 2008 3:47:03 PM    View the profile of Luckystar 
For some reason, I'm thinking Felix.
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  RE: BSG: Whos the Fifth? Discussion(Possible Spoil
April 21, 2008 7:22:58 PM    View the profile of Rogue 
My money has always ben on Baltar turning out to be a Cylon.

But the Zarek idea makes sense. More sense tha Starbuck turning out to be it. Her being one would be just too much.
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Garryll Gates
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  RE: BSG: Whos the Fifth? Discussion(Possible Spoil
April 21, 2008 8:36:19 PM    View the profile of Garryll Gates 
I'm really not feeling Batar. Why? He's already a jackass, no need to make him worse; he's hated by 98% of the fleet, but he still resisted the Cylons on New Caprica (sorta). If they really had wanted to drop a bomb on him, they (that is the Cylons) could have told him he was in fact, a cylon.

I don't think the President is a Cylon, I don't think the Admiral, Lee or Starbuck is a cylon.

Why? They've been around since the beginning and they've all had a million avoidances of doom or death or both. The Cylons wouldn't possibly put their 5th of the final 5 in that many life-or-death situations without one of those fancy ships that brings them back to life (sorry, can't think of the name right now). Plus all of 'em are in the 'Last Supper' pic except for Starbuck who

A) died, but reappeared, impossible with no fancy ship to revive her so; it is not a cylon trick.
C) the Admiral's and Lee's trust in her is significant (duh)
D) as the Admiral trusts her, but catches so much flak for it, there is no way the writers would humiliate him further by shooting that idea out the airlock as well.

Maybe Gaeta, or possibly even Hotdog, Racetrack or Hardball, and here's my theory; as it ain't Starbuck, there's got to be someone else to be a cylon, crack at her crazy wanderings, discover they're a cylon, and try to kill everyone. Perhaps the fifth isn't even that important!

There's my theory- as I see it, at least.
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[This message has been edited by Garryll Gates (edited April 21, 2008 8:38:57 PM)]
[This message has been edited by Garryll Gates (edited April 21, 2008 8:43:42 PM)]
Ibram Tyrol
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  RE: BSG: Whos the Fifth? Discussion(Possible Spoil
April 22, 2008 7:09:16 AM    View the profile of Ibram Tyrol 
Remember Gates, the original seven models do not know the identity of the final five. They are programmed not too. There for it is perfectly possible for them to have accidentally fired upon fellow cylons.
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- Innocence is the cost of Justice

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  RE: BSG: Whos the Fifth? Discussion(Possible Spoil
April 22, 2008 2:11:35 PM    View the profile of C-3PX2 
The Humanoid Models, of the Original Seven, were programed never to discuss the Final Five. Therefore, the knowlage of the Final Five, who they are, and what they looked like would not be known. Many of the Cylons, as Obvious from the most recent episode, felt that even discussing them Threatened their very survival.

The raiders on the other hand, while unable to speak and report what the Five look like, have shown the abillity to identify the final five (as shown when the raider scans Anders, but refuses to fire) and know not to attack them.
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Ibram Tyrol
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  RE: BSG: Whos the Fifth? Discussion(Possible Spoil
April 23, 2008 5:36:17 AM    View the profile of Ibram Tyrol 
Hmmm...I wouldn't go that far C. I'd simply say that the raiders recognised  Anders as a cylon, and refused to fire. Given the fact that their higher functions are pretty much limited right now, i doubt they have any concept of the "final five", instead, they simply distinguish between cylon and non-cylon.
"I'm no Physician, but there appears to be a dagger through my chest."

- Innocence is the cost of Justice

Senior Chief Petty Officer Ibram Tyrol
Viper Squadron, "Captain's Own"
Squadron Executive Officer
We fly, you die

-----------------------------------
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Garryll Gates
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  RE: BSG: Whos the Fifth? Discussion(Possible Spoil
April 28, 2008 4:48:34 PM    View the profile of Garryll Gates 
Well, then here's another theory- can't be another military mind. Why?

Balance. 3 to 1 of the final 5 are in the military.

Or another; 3 of the five are going through series doubts about their lives and now.

Tyrol just lost his wife; Saul is grieving over his (slightly insanely) Anders is having issues with Starbuck and almost got shot up by a Raider who seemed to 'wink' at him; the only one who's embodying their role is Tory, who caused Cally's death.
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He, who heard the sound of thy holy trumpet, and took not warning. He hath clearly wandered too far from the word of God. Your hour has come. Let's get it on, Big Boy. It's time to get back on the path.



No, what you have are bullets, and the hope that when your guns are empty I'm no longer be standing, because if I am... you'll all be dead before you've reloaded.


Beneath this mask there is more than flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea, Mr. Creedy, and ideas are bulletproof.
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  RE: BSG: Whos the Fifth? Discussion(Possible Spoil
April 28, 2008 11:48:11 PM    View the profile of Cosmic 
You never know. A few episodes down the road, and you may see Cally on one of those spawn ships. :P That would result in the revealing of a pure Cylon child.
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