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Author
Topic:  The Rules
Talon
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  RE: The Rules
March 15, 2003 3:18:48 AM    View the profile of Talon 
An email I was sent that I pretty much tell people word for word all the time (before I was even sent this). Enjoy and learn something. MILITARY RULES for NON-MILITARY PERSONNEL The current state of affairs in our great nation have many civilians up in arms and excited to join the military. For those of you who can't join, you can still lend a hand. The Military suggests these few areas in which your assistance will be helpful: 1. The next time you see an adult talking during the playing of the National Anthem ... kick their ass. 2. When you witness firsthand someone burning the American Flag in protest ... kick their ass. 3. Regardless of the rank they held while they served, pay the highest amount of respect to all veterans. If you see anyone doing otherwise, quietly pull them aside and explain how these Veterans fought for the very freedom they bask in every second. Enlighten them on the many sacrifices these Veterans made to make this Nation great. Then hold them down while Disabled Veteran kicks their ass. 4. If you were never in the military, DO NOT pretend that you were. Wearing battle dress uniforms (BDU's), telling others that you used to be "Special Forces," and collecting GI Joe memorabilia, might have been okay if you were still seven. Now, it will only make you look stupid and get your ass kicked. 5. If you witness someone calling an enlisted Marine "Sir," stand back... a Marine will kick their ass. 6. Next time you come across an Air Force member, do not ask them, "Do you fly a jet?" Not everyone in the Air Force is a pilot. Such ignorance deserves an ass kicking (children are exempt). 7. Roseanne Barr's singing of the National Anthem is not a blooper ...it was a disgrace and disrespectful. Laugh, and sooner or later your ass will be kicked. 8. Next time Old Glory prances by during a parade, get on your damn feet and pay homage to her by placing your hand over your heart. Quietly thank the military member or veteran lucky enough to be carrying her ..... of course, failure to do either of those could earn you a severe ass kicking. 9. What Jane Fonda did during the Vietnam War makes her the enemy. The proper word to describe her is "traitor." Just mention her nomination for "Woman of the Year" and get your ass kicked.. 10. Don't try to discuss politics with a military member or a veteran. We are Americans and we all bleed the same regardless of our party affiliation. Our Chain of Command, is to include our commander in Chief. The President (for those who didn't know) is our CIC regardless of political party.. We have no inside track on what happens inside those big important buildings where all those "representatives" meet. All we know is that when those civilian representatives screw up the situation, they call upon the military to go straighten it out. The military member might direct you to Oliver North. (I can see him kicking your ass already.) 11. "Your mama wears combat boots" never made sense to me . stop saying it! If she did, she would most likely be a vet and probably kick yourass! 12. Bin Laden and the Taliban are not communists, so stop saying "Let's go kill those Commie's!!!" And stop asking us where he is!!!! Crystal balls are not standard issue in the military. That reminds me ... if you see anyone calling those damn psychic phone numbers; let me know, so I can go kick their ass. 13. Bus Driver, Jar Head, Grunt, Swabbie, Squid, etc, are terms of endearment we use describing each other. Unless you are a service member or vet, you have not earned the right to use them & could get your ass kicked. 14. Last but not least, whether or not you become a member of the military, support our troops and their families. Every Thanksgiving & religious holiday that you enjoy with family and friends please remember that there are, literally, thousands of troops overseas wishing they could be with their families. Thank God for our military and the sacrifices they make every day. Without them, our country would get IT'S ass kicked.
 
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Kjerri
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  RE: The Rules
March 15, 2003 7:49:33 AM    View the profile of Kjerri 
haha thats great!
 
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Fury
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  RE: The Rules
March 15, 2003 9:11:47 AM    View the profile of Fury 
Yup.
 
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Swomz
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  RE: The Rules
March 15, 2003 10:50:53 AM    View the profile of Swomz 
That was good.
 
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Sheepy
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  RE: The Rules
March 15, 2003 4:26:36 PM    View the profile of Sheepy 
hmmm perhaps i shouldn't have burnt that US flag the other day...... /me runs
 
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Argon Viper
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  RE: The Rules
March 15, 2003 6:49:32 PM    View the profile of Argon Viper 
LOL!!  I'm in for about half of that 
 
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Argon Viper
IW COL Argon Viper{ret}
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"History is on the move, those who cannot keep up will watch from a distance, and those who get in our way will not watch at all" - Grand Admiral Thrawn
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"Condemnation does not liberate, it oppresses" - Carl G Jung
Talon
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  RE: The Rules
March 16, 2003 5:10:12 PM    View the profile of Talon 
w00t! Go Chuck! This was written by Charlie Daniels. February 24, 2003 An Open Letter To The Hollywood Bunch Ok let's just say for a moment you bunch of pampered, overpaid, unrealistic children had your way and the U.S.A. didn't go into Iraq. Let's say that you really get your way and we destroy all our nuclear weapons and stick daisies in our gun barrels and sit around with some white wine and cheese and pat ourselves on the back, so proud of what we've done for world peace. Let's say that we cut the military budget to just enough to keep the National Guard on hand to help out with floods and fires. Let's say that we close down our military bases all over the world and bring the troops home, increase our foreign aid and drop all the trade sanctions against everybody. I suppose that in your fantasy world this would create a utopian world where everybody would live in peace. After all, the great monster, the United States of America, the cause of all the world's trouble would have disbanded it's horrible military and certainly all the other countries of the world would follow suit.  After all, they only arm themselves to defend their countries from the mean old U.S.A. Why you bunch of pitiful, hypocritical, idiotic, spoiled mugwumps. get your head out of the sand and smell the Trade Towers burning. Do you think that a trip to Iraq by Sean Penn did anything but encourage a wanton murderer to think that the people of the U.S.A. didn't have the nerve or the guts to fight him? Barbra Streisand's fanatical and hateful rankings about George Bush makes about as much sense as Michael Jackson hanging a baby over a railing. You people need to get out of Hollywood once in a while and get out into the real world. You'd be surprised at the hostility you would find out here. Stop in at a truck stop and tell an overworked, long distance truck driver that you don't think Saddam Hussein is doing anything wrong.  Tell a farmer with a couple of sons in the military that you think the United States has no right to defend itself. Go down to Baxley, Georgia and hold an anti-war rally and see what the folks down there think about you. You people are some of the most disgusting examples of a waste of protoplasm I've ever had the displeasure to hear about. Sean Penn, you're a traitor to the United States of America. You gave aid and comfort to the enemy. How many American lives will your little, "fact finding trip" to Iraq cost? You encouraged Saddam to think that we didn't have the stomach for war. You people protect one of the most evil men on the face of this earth and won't lift a finger to save the life of an unborn baby. Freedom of choice you say? Well I'm going to exercise some freedom of choice of my own. If I see any of your names on a marquee, I'm going to boycott the movie. I will completely stop going to movies if I have to. In most cases it certainly wouldn't be much of a loss. You scoff at our military who's boots you're not even worthy to shine. They go to battle and risk their lives so ingrates like you can live in luxury. The day of reckoning is coming when you will be faced with the undeniable truth that the war against Saddam Hussein is the war on terrorism. America is in imminent danger. You're either for her or against her. There is no middle ground. I think we all know where you stand. What do you think? God Bless America Charlie Daniels
 
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Argon Viper
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  RE: The Rules
March 16, 2003 8:17:22 PM    View the profile of Argon Viper 
I've got to say that that is the largest bunch of hypocracy I've ever seen.  If this country ever gets to the point where anyone is barred by anyone from expressing their opinion as he is suggesting, I will move to Germany or Canada.  As Voltaire said, "I disagree with everything you said, but I would die for your right to say it." This country was founded as an idea that like this that could have been squashed to begin with had those people been as virulent as this man.  Anyone who is this militaristic reminds me of the tyranny that we are saying we need to destroy Iraq for. I honestly have to say that I hope never to see the nation this man is advocating, it would be the greatest obstacle to freedom the world has ever known. As for the Hollywood stars, the fact is that most of them came from this background he's suggesting they go back to.  The thing is that, being national figures, they feel a responsiblity to use that power (and yes, it is power) to prevent something they feel would cause undue pain and suffering to others. There's nothing wrong with what they're saying, and there's nothing wrong with what this man says, but if we actually act on either, we've screwed ourselves.
 
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Argon Viper
IW COL Argon Viper{ret}
Fallen Angel and Proud of It!
"History is on the move, those who cannot keep up will watch from a distance, and those who get in our way will not watch at all" - Grand Admiral Thrawn
"In combat, second place is only the last to die."- Anonymous
"Condemnation does not liberate, it oppresses" - Carl G Jung
JR
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  RE: The Rules
March 16, 2003 8:30:39 PM    View the profile of JR 
Wow...That's a whole lotta ass kicking.  I'm glad i live in canada.
 
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Fury
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  RE: The Rules
March 16, 2003 9:18:45 PM    View the profile of Fury 
Sorry...but there is one thing I have to comment on. Sure, Charlie has got some pent up frustrations to deal with, but he does have one kernel of what I believe is truth. Jesse Jackson can run around and say whatever he wants.  He has dabbled in politics and has some actual experience so the man knows of what he speaks.  It does not matter whether you agree with him or not, he has earned the right. Even that genetic throwback Pat Robertson would grudgingly earn my right to comment on political activities.  He at least tried to run for President and made a stance on issues and gave people the right to vote on them. HOWEVER.... In between there are all these entertainers out there, trying to force their belief system down our throats.  Your average Sean Penn has no more actual ability to prognosticate politics and demand a chance in the nation's foreign policy than does a drunk clown at a birthday party at the local pizza joint. Sure, he has an opinion.  We all do.  It doesn't even matter where you side with the guy's opinion.  The point is, he's a freaking actor.  And Martin Sheen.  He must have gotten his television role mixed up with reality.  I mean, I like the West Wing and I think he does a good job in it.  However, aside from Ronald Reagan, acting like you are the president does not actually mean you ARE the president. Point is, this is gross misconduct as citizens of this country for entertainers to protest government policy as regular Joes.  Now, if they want to change the script of a TV episode or a movie and make that part of their jobs, I say go for it.  Musicians like Rage Against the Machine made a nice living protesting against all they found unfair.  The difference?  They did it as PART OF THEIR JOBS.  The moment an actor or entertainer steps out of their role and tries to preach their belief system is when they have chosen to upset the democratic society we have built and which they presume to be defending. If they have access to a microphone, we ALL should have the same access.  Charlie Daniels is as guilty of this hypocrisy as anyone he's bitching about.  The government, like it or not, is in power through a more or less democratic process.  They are the official spokespeople.  Newspaper and the media are charged, through the unofficial acceptance of them being society's watchdog.  Granted, they are being co-opted through yes-men networks like FoxNews, but that is still their job.  Entertainers are left to perform their dissent through their work.  If they want to protest, they can step off their pedestals and act like the non-special status citizens which they are.
 
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Kjerri
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  RE: The Rules
March 16, 2003 9:41:48 PM    View the profile of Kjerri 
Maybe charly should realise that building up arms attracts people to do the same. When you vastly increase military spending, put nukes on the agenda and rip up a ton of peace policies and international rules you get frowned upon. Ya thats right, tearing up contracts that others worked hard on makes you look bad. Anyhow, I completely agree with Fury on the entertainers and opinions. EDIT: Posted it in a window that was old, didnt see anything under it :/   ----------------------- TRP/CPL Kjerri/2SQD/1PLT/1COM/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE [LoR] [LM] "I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day...tomorrow isn't looking good either."
[This message has been edited by Kjerri (edited March 16, 2003 9:50:53 PM)]
Argon Viper
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  RE: The Rules
March 16, 2003 9:51:23 PM    View the profile of Argon Viper 
Fury has a point, however, I'd like to point out that it is virtually impossible for those people to have a private opinion, the second they utter it, it's all over the news...  Even if they have taken that pigskin and run with it, it doesn't change the basic fact. Anyways, I only really disagree with two things this guy is saying.  First off, I disagree with his comment that they "have no right to say this".  If there's one thing our consitution garuntees, it's the right to say whatever we want.  If you disagree with it, dispute their reasoning, not their right to say it. Second, his idolation of the military.  The military, being what it is, is not a holy shrine or anything, it's a place where people go to learn how to kill other people.  Personally, I'd much rather have people idolize someone like the Dhali Llama or Jimmy Carter who have made real efforts to stop war rather than see that it continues. I agree that risking your life for a cause is laudable, but risking your life by attempting to bring about understanding is more so. In addition, I'd like to point out to those who believe in that, that they should start pressuring the government to support our troops rather than us liberals, the average soldier is still paid just above poverty line. [Edit] Kjerri's stuff wasn't up when I originally posted, but I definitely agree with it    ----------------------- Argon Viper IW COL Argon Viper{ret} Fallen Angel and Proud of It! "History is on the move, those who cannot keep up will watch from a distance, and those who get in our way will not watch at all" - Grand Admiral Thrawn "In combat, second place is only the last to die."- Anonymous "Condemnation does not liberate, it oppresses" - Carl G Jung
[This message has been edited by Argon Viper (edited March 16, 2003 9:53:06 PM)]
Fury
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  RE: The Rules
March 16, 2003 10:39:19 PM    View the profile of Fury 
While I agree, that whenever they utter something, the media picks up on it.  That's not what I'm talking about. I am talking about Sean Penn going to Baghdad, or Martin Sheen heading a "virtual protest" movement.  This is akin to letting the test animals take over the Revlon labs.  The only thing you are going to get are more blind spider monkeys without the critical data. And once again, I like your idealism.  Basically, my wife and I have spent the past few years talking about how we are going to raise our children when we get around to having them.  And yes, we plan to teach them tolerance, express the ideas of cultural understanding and all the variety of different people you run into in this world.  However, they are also going to learn some nature conversation and how to properly handle a bow and a rifle as well. I may hope for a better world, but I am not going to roll over and expect it not to try to harm me either.
 
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Sheepy
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  RE: The Rules
March 17, 2003 6:53:05 AM    View the profile of Sheepy 
Hasn't there been alot of reports of Americans burning their own flag in protest over the Iraq ordeal.
 
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Argon Viper
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  RE: The Rules
March 17, 2003 8:36:14 AM    View the profile of Argon Viper 
Sheepy: Not sure Fury:  I do know how to handle a rifle, a bow, and I'm pretty good with a sword or a staff too.  These skills are very necessary, without seeing the kind of damage a bullet can do to someone, a child is more likely to use it.  In addition, these skills add to hand-eye coordination, which is another plus.  Besides, I said I'd never kill someone even in self defense, I never said anything about wounding them if it was necessary.
 
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Argon Viper
IW COL Argon Viper{ret}
Fallen Angel and Proud of It!
"History is on the move, those who cannot keep up will watch from a distance, and those who get in our way will not watch at all" - Grand Admiral Thrawn
"In combat, second place is only the last to die."- Anonymous
"Condemnation does not liberate, it oppresses" - Carl G Jung
Sniping101
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  RE: The Rules
March 18, 2003 10:28:44 AM    View the profile of Sniping101 
This is probly a bunch of bullshit in your eyes seeing as i believe im the youngest one here. i'm gonna join the army, im gonna stay ther, because i believe it is right to protect yourself and your country, i would never hesitate to kill some one if it came to that, i can use a AR.i have been raised around people who killing was the only way to survive, ive listened to the storys and collected the information i could before i made my decision, i think that peace mongerers are a useless piece of society becuase they waste the time trying to do something that will NEVER happen. if the US shoved thir weapons,China and Iraq and all them other dumbasses would simply see a weakness, they wouldnt fallow suite at thier time of almost sure victory. I dont agree with friggen ppl who think we should convert to solar energy and natuar energys like that either, but i have looked around and read alot of books before i took a stand on this about a year agao, but i've seen people protesting war who dont kno Jack, of course i've seen people pro-war who dont kno Jack either. i guess what im saying is people should find out more information before they go talking anything.
 
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  RE: The Rules
March 18, 2003 10:54:21 AM    View the profile of Bear 
I saw something about this in the paper today, and was just wondering what you felt about it: How do you react to the accusation that the US is desperate to stop the genocide in Iraq because they are deeply ashamed of the cowardice they displayed in 1939? Just wondering if you actually KNEW that most of the world consider you as cowards; "freedom fighters" is about as far from the truth as you can get. (according to the newspaper, anyway) P.S. I am against a war in Iraq because I feel it is an absolute disgrace that the US (and us.. I would bet France would have supported millitary action in 1997) has waited almost 6 years to do this. Just like the 3 years in that other war you are "proud" of. P.P.S. I am not anti-American. So don't even consider playing that card.   -----------------------            Captain Aaron "Bear" Le'pue, NCC Adjutant & VE Today Chief Editor                                                         ~~~        NCC:A/CAP Aaron "Bear" Le'pue/Raptor/Offensive Fleet/mSSD Atrus/VEN/VE
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[This message has been edited by Bear (edited March 18, 2003 11:11:09 AM)]
Kjerri
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  RE: The Rules
March 18, 2003 11:58:02 AM    View the profile of Kjerri 
"...im the youngest one here" Thanks Snips, you summed up your post pretty well. I like how you call countries "dumbasses" and you being an american, have proven points that you probably don't realise yet as well as points already broughten out in numerous other posts. Comments and opinions are one thing, things that can get you into trouble in real life are another. Try walking into a old Italian bar, lots of large Italian men intoxicated with liquor and insult their country like you did to some there in your post. You'll probably get a black eye or two, maybe a broken arm and tossed through the glass-clad front door. Or you could hope they don't have anything sharp in their hands, aka beer bottle. When you get older, crawl through some high school and university you'll see the light, how others are treated in this world. Better yet, go on vacation to somewhere out of the United States and boost as much as you want. Remember to bars, police stations and open public areas and just put down that country. Better yet, walk through the streets of Saedi Arabia and tell the people about the terrorists and bad dictatorships going on there. I'm sure you'll not like the outcome (most of us like having a head attached to our necks). PS: Which part of the United States do you live in so I can avoid the place were people "kill to survive".
 
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  RE: The Rules
March 18, 2003 12:34:48 AM    View the profile of Bear 
I'll just pick this out bit by bit. My additions are in bold. This is probly a bunch of bullshit no swearing on the comnet in your eyes seeing as i believe im the youngest one here dunno, how old are you?. i'm gonna join the army not a bad career choice, im gonna stay ther, because i believe it is right to protect yourself and your country isn't that what the national guard is for? i don't believe the US has EVER been invaded, i would never hesitate to kill some one if it came to that says it all, i can use a AR not gonna be much use when theres 25 people twice your size taking penalty shots at your head.i have been raised around people who killing was the only way to survive unless that was in the Somme in 1916, I think you might be talking total crap, ive listened to the storys maybe you should learn to spell as well and collected the information i could before i made my decision which is?, i think that peace mongerers are a useless piece of society much like immature teenagers, really becuase they waste the time trying to do something that will NEVER happen i suppose neil armstrong was a useless piece of society as well?. if the US shoved thir weapons,China and Iraq and all them other dumbasses would simply see a weakness, they wouldnt fallow suite at thier time of almost sure victory if China and Iraq can find a way to wipe YOU off the planet, I'm all for it. I dont agree with friggen ppl who think we should convert to solar energy and natuar energys like that either why not?, but i have looked around and read alot of books before i took a stand on this about a year agao what, solar energy?!, but i've seen people protesting war who dont kno Jack how do you know? were you out there asking them all?, of course i've seen people pro-war who dont kno Jack either. i guess what im saying is people should find out more information before they go talking anything. Take your own advice then. Oh, and "spelling", "grammer" and "punctuation" might be good topics to start with.
[This message has been edited by Bear (edited March 18, 2003 12:46:12 AM)]
Argon Viper
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  RE: The Rules
March 18, 2003 5:20:52 PM    View the profile of Argon Viper 
Historical fact: The United States has not faced a threat to it's own borders since 1812, when the British Army, on a temporary reprieve from the Napoleonic Wars (another way the French have helped the US) invaded and burned Washingtod DC.  It was decided at that point that congressmen and government civilian officials could no longer make tactical (during the battle) decisions because they were morons. [EDIT]: Note on the historical fact: The French have actually done more for the US than any other nation in history.  They contributed greatly to our war for independence (anyone remember Lafayette and DeGrasse?), the Napoleonic Wars gave us time to build up as England remained occupied with defeating France instead of whipping us back in line, they gave us the Statue of Liberty, and if they had actually given up in either world war (as has been suggested here numerous times), Europe would now be named Germany. [NOT EDITED]Anyways, Snipes, if you want to live your whole life as one large bloodbath, I invite you to do that.  We can gather up all those who want to do the same and strand you on an island.  Heck, we can even drop extra guns and ammunition on it occasionally.  Meanwhile, the rest of us will go on leading the rather peaceful lives we'd rather leave. More to come after my work...   [EDIT]Well, it's after work, so here goes.  I am regretful that we are going to war with Iraq, this is a situation that should never have come to pass and the Blaire/Bush duo may actaully face war crimes charges at some point for this (UN mandate states that war is only allowable in self defense or if clearly stated by the security council, neither of which this is).  However, I would still like to take this time to wish the members of any armed services that are here luck and a swift success in Iraq.  I don't agree with why the war is happenning, but I wouldn't want to wish it to do ill to others.  In that respect, I hope that a peaceful solution is worked out before the war comes to a conclusion in order to avoid uneccessary loss of life and setting a terrible precedent for world foreign relations. Anyways, Sniper, I'd suggest getting out more.  From the sounds of it, you could actually live close to me (way northern California anyone?), but that's not an excuse for ignorance of the reasoning behind other points of view.  Travel to France sometime, may be Germany, heck, visit Bear in Scotland.  From there, go to a local pub or bar and engage in a political discussion with someone, there's bound to be an English speaker who's more than willing to debate with you.  Anyways, all you'll need is an open mind and you won't feel the need to use profanity against them, you'll understand their reasoning even if you don't agree with it, just as I do toward your opinion. Anyways, enjoy  ----------------------- Argon Viper IW COL Argon Viper{ret} Fallen Angel and Proud of It! "History is on the move, those who cannot keep up will watch from a distance, and those who get in our way will not watch at all" - Grand Admiral Thrawn "In combat, second place is only the last to die."- Anonymous "Condemnation does not liberate, it oppresses" - Carl G Jung
[This message has been edited by Argon Viper (edited March 18, 2003 7:10:29 PM)]
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  RE: The Rules
March 18, 2003 10:08:35 PM    View the profile of Trigit 
Wow, hope topic, anyway, here are my views: I am pro-war.  Why?  Because of our economy and the fact that I live in one of the top 5 targets in a war.  Living next to the oil import for the US, NASA, and one of the major energy points in the US comes with danger.  As you might know, after 9/11, downtown Houston was evacuated and we had a CAP(Combat Air Patrol) of a squadren in the air at all times for the next week, and a couple more squadrens on standby, just in case.  I'd rather see us take the first step, rather than my city getting hit as the first strike. Secondly, and this may sound kinda selfish, but did anyone else notice how the Dow Jones jumped 300 points 10 minutes after Bush made his speech?  The US needs an economy boost, and if it takes a war, might as well take out someone that's a threat anyway, right? Also, I stand behind our President.  I may not always agree with him, but like it or not, the people elected him(and I don't want to see any of that "Gore really won" crap.  The people elected him through their own ignorance when they decided to leave the electoral system in place.  If they wanted to actually decide who sits in office, that woulda been changed long ago) and like it or not, he speaks for our nation.  You live here, you choose to live here, and once the decision is made, you are expected to stand behind him, like it or not.  If you don't like it, I'm sure Canada or France would open you with open arms. Those are my views, I'll elaborate if needed. P.S - God Bless our military, where the hell would we be without them?
 
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  RE: The Rules
March 18, 2003 10:14:55 PM    View the profile of Swomz 
From one of Bear's posts: P.S. I am against a war in Iraq because I feel it is an absolute disgrace that the US (and us.. I would bet France would have supported millitary action in 1997) has waited almost 6 years to do this. Just like the 3 years in that other war you are "proud" of. Guess who was President in 1997? 1998? 1999? Clinton.  Now that Bush is in power he is making up for Clinton's mistakes.  There have been more important things up until now such as the falling economy to deal with, or terrorists, etc.  We are going to rape Saddam so hard they will need a crowbar to get our dick out of his ass.  The way I see it he can eat shit and die, as well as anyone who defends his genocidal tendencies.
 
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  RE: The Rules
March 19, 2003 12:52:23 AM    View the profile of Fury 
I have a point which I am sure some of you are going to disagree with.  However, it is one passed down through my family and to be honest, I agree with it in the spirit in which it was designed.  Until my sister and her husband got married, couples in my family usually involved one, if not both spouses being immigrants.  It is all well and good to talk about how you do not want to support a war or the president or just plain want to be contrary to everyone for the sake of being different. That is part of what this country is all about. And yes, you can talk about domestic affairs in a war all you like during a war.  Not everything stops because the firing begins.  Life does go on.  However, after living through a family that constantly sees a) how hard it is to become a citizen of this nation (I dare most of you to actually try to pass a US citizenship test; you'd be amazed how unknowledgeable the average native born citizen can be), and b) what a commitment to one's country is, which means at least one person from every generation has gone on to serve in the military, I am of the firm belief that once combat begins, your right to bitch and moan about war becomes less of a right and more of a detriment to the society in which you live in. Basically, once troops are dying on a battlefield, things have stopped being political and have been placed in the hands of sergeants and lieutenants on the other side of the world whose job it is to defend your right to disagree; but who do not have time to debate your points. Sure, some of you will not agree with that, but in my book, the moment some guy or gal is practicing their right to defend democracy with their lives is the moment that those of us here on the homefront need to learn to shut our traps and support them.  And don't even go on with the you support the troops but not the conflict they are in.  I doubt anyone in uniform would actually believe such pap.
 
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  RE: The Rules
March 19, 2003 8:32:14 AM    View the profile of Argon Viper 
First off, I'm completely indifferent to what other people think of my opinion.  The fact is that those people out there across the globe are fighting for my right to express it (or so they say).  I don't wish them any ill, but I will not stop my efforts to stop the war just because it has started.  Here's a conversational lesson I heard about that kind of thinking: "How would you feel if I were to tell you that you could no longer voice your opinion.  That it was morally wrong to do so, and that I would be willing to prevent you if necessary," said the liberal to the conservative lawmaker who stood before him on the steps of capitol hill. "I would say you have lost your mind," replied the conservative lawmaker, giving the liberal his best glare. "Now you know exactly how I feel," replied the liberal. To be honest, I don't think we'll be living in a democracy for much longer, this country is turning into more of a dictatorship, trying to control what is said, what is done, and how it is done. If these people are really out there fighting for our freedom, please don't try to suppress it here or you will make all of the sacrafice they can make over there entirely worthless.
 
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  RE: The Rules
March 19, 2003 10:05:02 AM    View the profile of Drogo 
Fury isn't trying to say that you have no right to an opinion. He's simply saying that whether or not you agree with this war support it while it is taking place. People claim not to want war because it will cost too much unnnecessary loss of life. If we go into this war "half-assing" it then it will most likely cost more lives and still not accomplish this task it was or wasn't worth fighting for in the first place. We're too proud to back down and admit we've made a mistake. It's a major flaw, and strength(as far as being proud not that we don't admit mistakes) that we have as americans. Look at the wars we've been in. I'll just cite two of the most familiar to make my point. WW II the people supported and was a victory, Vietnam people didn't agree with and we all know what happened there. In the grand scheme of things we are all very insignifigant no matter how much would like true autonomy and to have everyone happy and in agreement having everything go everyone way. That's just the way things work. Bear, please don't criticize us for innaction then and overaction now. If Japan hadn't attacked us we may not have shown up until it was too late (which was almost the case in WW I). Just be thankful that things happened the way they did. A note to everyone, it's too late to argue about whether or not this war will happen. We must accept it and see it through, to whatever end.
 
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  RE: The Rules
March 19, 2003 10:31:51 AM    View the profile of Fury 
I never did say you could not protest policy.  But arguing against an ongoing conflict that the military still supports and then saying you are for the troops is just an outright lie.  I would never do such a thing under those circumstances and while you do have the right to do so, I would personally consider it in really poor taste.  If you absolutely need to protest a war, the Constitution says you surely can, but do so for the right reason. To say this is purely about oil is a lie.  To say this is purely about being anti-Bush, equally so.  If I can accept even half the stuff coming to us from Washington, it goes something like this.  Saddam Hussein is a bad man.  True.  He has weapons of mass destruction.  I absolutely know he did, just ask any Kurd immigrant you might know about his family "back home".  I am pretty damn sure that he still has them.  Imagine negotiating with Hitler without World War II happening.  Sometime in 1952 he goes, "Well, yeah, we did have concentration camps, but we got rid of them."  I suppose you would've believed that too. Hell, WE don't like getting rid of nukes, do you think a medium-sized fish in a pond full of piranhas would try to stop getting them?" Now, I am not sure we need to go to war with this guy RIGHT THIS MINUTE, but can you actually envision a scenario where he left on his own peacefully?  If so, come with me to Vegas sometime cuz I am either going to fleece you big time or you are gonna beat some crazy billion-to-one odds at a Binion's blackjack table. Like Drogo said - just noticed he posted - we did kind of get talked into a war.  Which is really the best way to put it.  Did this guy have to be dealt with at some point in the future? Yeah.  If nothing more than to stop him from paying people to blow up Tel Aviv.  (Now if we could do that AND stop settlement building we might have something.)  Point is, this may have always led to some form of conflict, probably with UN backing as this is not the best case scenario.  Blaming Bush might help you feel better, but it would've likely happened down the road.  I would just like to make a bad situation better and support those who are actually doing something to deal with a regional, if not international threat.  Namely, those Americans, Brits, Aussies, Poles, Slovaks, Spaniards, and whoever else is cooking their butts off waiting to go into a life threatening situation.  Let's hope it goes well for the majority of them.
 
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  RE: The Rules
March 19, 2003 11:20:38 AM    View the profile of Kjerri 
Although Bear is right Drogo, even top American professors and polictical advisors stated the same thing. That WW2 taught America that it needs to join in right away. It was inaction then, but Americans so called "learned" from the experience. So instead of being the allied fighter entering the war late, we became the Japan, preemptive war to halt someone they believe will cause them problems down the road. Although you guys nicely annouced that you will kill them, so thats a good thing I guess isnt it. I bet if there was a UN at the time of WW2, and Japan had went to the council, explaned to them that the United States was unfairly blockading and pulling resource vessels from going to Japan even though they have not formally stated that they are at war, you may slowly see something simular to today's system. We all know their is going to be a war, its just the after effects we should all be concerned about. Will this be the last country? when does the war end? when does the states stop? when will there be peace? can their be peace? what happens if this keeps going on? There alot of scary stuff here, just keep that in your throughts as we pray this war will end quickly and the loss of life is minimal for both side.
 
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  RE: The Rules
March 19, 2003 12:04:47 AM    View the profile of Bear 
On a lighter note: What is the most important factor for an attacking army? Surprise. Thank god we haven't lost it, eh?
 
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  RE: The Rules
March 19, 2003 2:07:57 PM    View the profile of Fury 
Yeah, that's what happens when you let politicians dictate the agenda.  Though if they had succeeded, we wouldn't have gotten to this point. Guess if we had some redneck members, they'd argue the "peace through superior firepower" mantra.  Oh well.
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  RE: The Rules
March 19, 2003 4:07:12 PM    View the profile of Darkhawk 
If there had been a UN back during World War II, I don't think Japan would have been a member after what they had been doing in China for the past decade... Or, at least, no one would have listened to anything they had to say. ----------------------- ADJ:NTO/FM/COM Darkhawk/Kaph 3-4/Phoenix Wing/mSSD Atrus/DEF/VEN/VE/(=A=)(=SA=)(=JCPA=)(=SCPA=)(=FCO=)[LoC][LSM][BRC][MC:1st][CBV*][VC:Ebony][KC:oc] DLS/CL/SG Darkhawk/Eagle 1-4/mSSD Atrus/VEDJ/VE/[CR]
[This message has been edited by Darkhawk (edited March 19, 2003 4:08:07 PM)]
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