It's a pathetic show of power. They are living under the impression that violence deserves a reaction of violence, which it doesn't. But it is understandable, it's been the longest lasting battle between two different cultures ever, it's lasted since like 10 AD (feel free to correct me on the better estimation of dates, i know you would anyways)   ----------------------- FM/WO2 Denethor/Venom 2-3/ISD Overlord/VEN/VE[=SA=] Kam "Denethor" Vox Flight 2 Flight Member 3: Venom Squadron Lusthawk (place # here) Co-founder: Nazgul "No one can guarantee victory during war, but only deserve it."    -Winston Churchill

I say we pillage their villages, rape their women, get the hell out of there then drop some big ass bomb to wipe it all out...then go steal their oil.... What can I say....I'm republican... j/k
 
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-=:General Anakin:=-
Executive Officer for the Vast Empire
XO/GN Anakin/HC-2/Lotaith/VE [SCP][CDS][IOC][CM-SS][LoCx23]
YAPI!!!!!
E-mail 

Ah yes, once again the respected voice of Red5 speaks out. So here's my spiel: First off, I think Arafat is the goofiest looking guy I've ever seen. I believe he is only seeking retribution (did I use that word right?) for the evil and sometimes bad abuse he recieved as a child, resulting in his present appearance. I also believe that we should wholeheartedly support Israel, as Natalie Portman came from Israel, and where would the SW universe be without a Natalie Portman? Moving on, we could descend upon them with hordes of man-eating locusts, thus wiping out their population, but not harming the land. When that is finished, we leave the locusts to die at the hands of pesticides, then move in and take what we want. Israel, of course, will be shielded from our wrath, unless some tainted water "accidentally" gets into their tiny bit o' land. Finally, but not necessarily least important, I think bin Laden is dead, not to mention he looks like a giant hairy male genital, and his soul burns in a bad place. But thats just me, and I'm an American, and I think these things on a regular basis. Oh, and one more thing I'd like to share: Kick bin Laden for a buck! $.50 to punch him in the face! Bring a monkey and get half off! (I thought of that last part last night at 2 in the morning. I'm quite proud of it, actually.)
 
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[PO1][Red5]/[Nazgul]-[1]/[Wing 1]/[None]/[1VENF]/VEN [=A=] (medals)

I am whole heartedly behind the Isrealis this time.  This is a war.  They are responding exactly as we did in Afganistan.  I think that Bush, even though I have supported him all the before this, is being hypocritical in telling them to back off.  As for peace talks, Isreal has signed several peace accords where the give the Palistinians land in return for peace, all of which the PLO has broken.  Arafat is a terrorist, and deserves to be treated as such.  He is the one continual factor in all the violence.  There have been several presidents that have tried to stop the violence , and a few Israeli leaders, but he has staid.  I also think that Iraq and Saudi Arabia are terrorist nations because they are giving a ton of money to families of suicide bombers.  That is my rant. (On a secondary note: how fake did the latest video of Bin Laden look?)
 
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[army] Fishman
FM/LCRW JMac/Aegis 3-4/Aegis 12/(=A=)(MC1)
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
"In order to find his equal an Irishman is forced to talk to God."
- Braveheart
Crack pilot and thickheaded conservative

one word for all, nuke thats what its gonna come down to anyways, so lets get it over w/  they'll back down like the japs
 
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TRP/CPL BaNe/4SQD/1PLT/1COM/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE

"When staring in the face of death, we see our reflection."
                 ~•Wraith Squad Motto•~

Heck, I would've voted for Nadar in the last election even if he wasn't the best candidate running just to get a third party into the election system  Also, about nukes, only the most insane and nationalistic people are still arguing to use those because only an idiot would want to control territory that's gently glowing green  The japs did back down, but back then, there was no one around to launch another one right back up our throats like Israel can.  In fact, GB and France would probably join them, as would China and Russia.  We'd get decimated, as would they, and India and Pakistan would take the opportunity to launch at each other, and then who would be a world power?  Australia and Saudi Arabia spring to mind from all those left over 
 
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Argon Viper
"History is on the move, those who cannot keep up will watch from a distance, and those who get in our way will not watch at all" - Grand Admiral Thrawn
"How boring life would be if everyone felt the same way we do..." - Argon Viper
"Condemnation does not liberate, it oppresses" - Carl G Jung
"The way of peace is always better than the way of war, it's just not as fast" - Argon Viper

A few things. (More then that actually, but I don't have much time right now.)  First off, Denethor, what is wrong with descendents of British criminals.  Just look at America.  We are not the purebreds, we're the mutts. Our forefathers were kicked out of every respectable nation.  But let me tell you this, there is no animal more loyal, or more lovable, then the mutt. Onto the serious issues.  Argon, I was agreeing with you, but not on this issue.  There is no excuse for terrorism.  I a not quoting Bush here, or the bible, just my own thoughts.  Terrorism is a delibrate targeting of innocent lives for a political purpose.  It is using the as pawns because you believe that your cause is right enough.  That is wrong.  War usually is not about killing off all others. It is about hurting each other's MILITARY enough so that they back down.  dislike any taking of life, but in the military at least they signed up for that risk.  That is why I was pissed off on 9/11.  Had Al Queada just hit the pentagon, I would have been ok with it.  I would have said that we were at war, I would have said that they were sneaky and underhanded, but they were still good statisticians.  They crossed the line though, and killed the innocents.  That lowered them from an army and put them into criminal scum.  That was wrong. I back Israel full heartedly in what they are doing. They are defending themselves from attack, and because they are surrounded by enimies, they can't afford to show weakness. I thought that the tape looked completely phony.  In it, Bin Laden doesn't even seem to notice that the speaker is there!  It definitely looks doctored.  On nuclear war I think we are in complete agreement.  There is no winner of a nuclear war. One nation launches theirs, everyone else launches, and it is the end of the world as we know it. Saudi Arabia and Australlia won't live long. The radioactive fallout will kill them before very long.
 
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[army] Fishman
FM/LCRW JMac/Aegis 3-4/Aegis 12/(=A=)(MC1)
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
"In order to find his equal an Irishman is forced to talk to God."
- Braveheart
Crack pilot and thickheaded conservative

ah pakistan and india having nukes, if there's anyone i wouldnt trust less with weapons of mass destruction (par usa) its them Isreal are taking it just too far now, from what ive seen on the news their soldiers have been commiting complete acts of cruelty to the palastines, not that im suprised after all the suicide bombs, i just think they've made their point and should back off now. They're going to have to give in to peace talks sooner or later. I was in london today and there were petitions everywhere for "stopping the isreali slaughter" oh well i have no sympathy for either country now. One side suicide bombing the other side killing loads of civilians
 
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SL/1SGTRaziel/4SQD/1COMP/1BAT/1RGT/Tadath/VEA/ {EW1}
Squad Leader - Squad4 Wraiths

Eh? Rightttt.. Jenin was shut off from foreigners for what? I'm not sure of the number, but it must have been at least a week. There was, what? At least 500 Israeli troops in the area? Going by statistics from the second world war.. A German soldier in a concentration camp could bury around about 10 bodies an hour, with the help of machinery. In this day and age, the Israelis have god knows how much equipment, and 500 troops.. so whats that? 500 x 10 = 5000 bodies an hour. And they were there for seven days.. 168 hours. 5000 x 168 = 840,000 buried bodies. The town hasn't been open for 24 hours yet (at the time of your writing), and you're already claiming the government knows exactly how many people are dead? What did they do, X-Ray the ground?!?!?!?! Anyway, now I've given my thoughts on that.. my thoughts on the rest. Yasser Arafat is about the worst leader the Palestinians could ever have - which is unfortuanete, because they have a very good case. They want a country to be created, called.. Palestine. Just like the Jews wanted a country to be created, called.. Israel. Before WW2, the Jewish homeland was Jerusalem - but this was unofficial. The Palestinian homeland was Palestine - this was official. Then, however, it was switched round. Palestine is now just the West Bank, the Gaza Strip and areas of Lebanon, Syria etc where there are large numbers of Palestinians - nothing official. So, in my opinion, and in theirs, there should be a new homeland for the Palestinians. The trouble arises because both the Jews and the Palestinians want their homeland to be in the same place. Hence the joke.. "At the Israeli peace talks today, some common ground has been found between the two sides. Unfortuently, its Jerusalem.." Arafat is a total plonker who is only intrested in himself. If he got off his ass, he could turn the rabble of Palestinian terrorists into a proper group - I won't go so far to say "Army", but what he is in control of right now is groups of teenagers throwing stones at tanks. He also has the fanatics who strap explosives to themselves and walk into cafes.. How can you control either of those groups? Look at it like this. I am an Israeli soldier, in my tank. A kid comes out and throws a stone at me. Is that: a) An act of defiance against the heathen Jews who have taken over his country b) What he has been told to do c) What everyone else is doing, so he better do it as well Probably b and/or c, right? In Afghanistan, the Northern Alliance were little more than a rag tag group of guys with nothing better to do - they had no jobs, no prospects, no home, nothing. Now they've been kitted out by the Americans and are being trained to good standards by the British (and vice versa) - and now they are using their expert knowledge to flush out whats left of the Taleban. If a good leader for the Palestinians comes along, and organises them, and polices them, and disciplines them, great - if there are maybe.. half a million Palestinians who are registered as Palestinians, then perhaps the world will sit up and think "Hold on a second.. some of these people are pretty decent.. doctors, lawyers, scientists.. they don't all blow up cafes full of Israelies. Maybe we should think about negotiating their homeland?". But, until that happens, plonkers like Arafat will continue telling his men to blow things up, and plonkers like Sharon will be ordering his army to shoot anything that moves. My solution: Deport Arafat to somewhere safe, where he can't be in contact with his fanatics. Sharon will get on an American flight to visit Bush in Washington, and it'll crash on the way, killing him. What a coincidence..
 
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CMDR/CAP Aaron 'Bear' Le'pue/Flight School 1/Training Fleet/Plt Saratoga/VEN/VE (=A=) (=SA=) (=FOCE=) (=JCPA=) [BRC] [BRC] [LSM] [LoC] [NDM]
VE Today Chief Editor
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Bear - [email protected]
Vast Empire Today - [email protected]

the palestines are blowing things out of proportion that is correct. However the isreali troops are killing civilians, i saw a man on TV who was shot down on his farm, i simply cant see how that couldnt have happened? In some places the civilians are being treated ok, in others they're being held as prisoners, and for what exactly? The land was "claimed" by the jews, who technically had no claim over it whatsoever.
 
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SL/1SGTRaziel/4SQD/1COMP/1BAT/1RGT/Tadath/VEA/ {EW1}
Squad Leader - Squad4 Wraiths

I would just like to apologise in advance for quite a low punch.. "We would have seen if they were doing mass burials on the scale that the Palistinians are claiming using our satelites." Your satellites didn't prevent 4 Canadian soldiers from being blown up by an American plane; They haven't found Osama Bin Ladens hide out (and the hide out of his lieutenants) yet; They haven't led to you having solid proof that Iraq is producing chemical/nuclear weapons; They didn't see the mass graves in Kosovo a few years ago (explaining the American reluctance to help in that conflict) One other thing.. in late August/early September of last year, George Bush was getting very excited about his "Star Wars" satellite defence system, which would apparently prevent nuclear inter-continental missiles from attacking the US. There are two problems with this.. 1) No country in Europe even has nuclear missiles. Britain's nuclear weapons are in cruise missiles in submarines and aircraft, which is the same for the rest of the continent. If no country in Europe has them, how could any other? Europe is the richest continent on the planet.. 2) Nowadays, the "War on terrorism" is the only war that matters. The only way nuclear weapons will be used is by some Arab putting one on a plane and flying it into the US. Will satellites help? Ermm.. no. Basically, start to face facts. This "War on Terrorism" is not a war which will require satellites, missiles (we've already seen how ineffective cruise missiles have been), submarines and the like. It will probably require spies, loads of intelligence and specialist soldiers. In this war, satellites are virtually obsolete. And before you counter that, I ask you this: If satellites are so valuable, why didn't they stop 4 Canadian soldiers being killed from "friendly fire"? Oh, yeh.. and why haven't I seen Bin Laden in American hands yet?
 
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CMDR/CAP Aaron 'Bear' Le'pue/Flight School 1/Training Fleet/Plt Saratoga/VEN/VE (=A=) (=SA=) (=FOCE=) (=JCPA=) [BRC] [BRC] [LSM] [LoC] [NDM]
VE Today Chief Editor
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Bear - [email protected]
Vast Empire Today - [email protected]

Actually, because of the START treaties, the two world super-powers (well, former super power in Russias case) have destroyed all their long range intercontinental missiles. A few are still kicking about in the Russian republics, but since these haven't been maintained for almost 15 years and nobody knows how to fire them, I don't think theres much threat from them. You see, because of the billions of dollars spent on the Star Wars system, four Canadian soldiers were killed because the American bombs aren't accurate enough - a problem solved easily by that amount of money. And I have little doubt that because (indirectly, perhaps) of the money wasted on the satellite defence system, many Americans and their allies will die.. lives which could have been saved. Before you say anything to THAT, we're even starting to see it in the UK. The Fleet Air Arm (thats the British Naval aircraft) is replacing all of its interceptor Sea Harriers with ground attack Harrier GR9's. These aircraft, unbelievebly, will not be fitted with Air-to-surface missiles (even though they are ground attack aircraft), and, even more unbelievely, won't even have a GUN! Why? Because of the huge amounts of money being pumped into other areas of the Armed Forces - most notably the Trident nuclear weapons systems. The US isn't immune to budget cuts like that.. even with a Republican government.
 
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CMDR/CAP Aaron 'Bear' Le'pue/Flight School 1/Training Fleet/Plt Saratoga/VEN/VE (=A=) (=SA=) (=FOCE=) (=JCPA=) [BRC] [BRC] [LSM] [LoC] [NDM]
VE Today Chief Editor
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Bear - [email protected]
Vast Empire Today - [email protected]

And back to the subject of the satellites.. Satellites can't move. They don't have engines. They orbit around the planet in a big circle. The earth revolves around its axis. Therefore, you have to wait until the satellite has passed over the area of the earth you want to look at. With the planet revolving itself, it could be turning the wrong direction for the satellite to get a fix. For example: The planet goes left, and the satellite goes left and up a bit (if you see what I mean). Therefore, it can see everything along the line from Australia-India-Ukraine-Germany-Scandinavia-Artic-East USA-Central USA-Hawaii-Pacific-Australia. Or something like that. It can't see Israel. Of course, theres a lot of satellites. BUT it takes a while to get a fix. Not just a few hours, or days.. in the cold war, it would sometimes take a team of scientists a week to work out how they'd view a specific area of Russia at that time.
 
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CMDR/CAP Aaron 'Bear' Le'pue/Flight School 1/Training Fleet/Plt Saratoga/VEN/VE (=A=) (=SA=) (=FOCE=) (=JCPA=) [BRC] [BRC] [LSM] [LoC] [NDM]
VE Today Chief Editor
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Bear - [email protected]
Vast Empire Today - [email protected]

I must add the point that alot of intelligence satellites DO have engines, CAN change their trajectory, AND do so more than once.  The only problem is that we've long since run most of those out of fuel. Plus we've got slews of geosynchronous sats...tho i doubt any in that particular region.  How the heck do you think GPS systems work?  At least some of those are spy sats I would assume. But in that area?  No, we leave that to the Israelis and their Jericho sats (I think that's what they are called). And the point is this.  You can say the world is outraged at Israel.  That is such BS.  The Arab world in the vicinity might be.  Every radical bored college kid might be (as it is finals time they surely will increase in volume as it is a fact that most college protests are a way to get out of classes and tests; don't believe me? see how loud the outcry is in another month or so).  The truth is that no one wants to pay more for fuel.  Every time some mullah gets a hair up his butt or some chief/sheik/prime minister/zealot gets assassinated, we have to pay 10-30 cents more a gallon.  This gets old.  Since no one is throwing a Jewish-Muslim brawl in their towns, they would rather things not occur that disturb their banal existences.  We are talking about people who on either end of the extreme can neither: a) find enough food to feed their family or b) vote yes on a school tax referendum then wonder why all the kids become crackheads.  Your average Joe, Chang, Jose, or Vladimir could care less what happens outside of their neighborhood. Bush sure the heck doesn't want this as he needs to pucker up to anyone who can help him find Bin Laden and his wacky cast of human projectiles.  At the same time, he'd rather close his eyes than learn from the Israeli's mistakes. Personally, if someone was bombing my home, I'd want to retaliate too.  Who wouldn't?  But invading towns is not the way to do it.  Grab some people in the middle of the night.  Assassinate your bigger offenders.  Why give a whole new generation the idea that becoming a human bomb isn't a bad way of arguing the Palestinian case? Basically, as all internalized struggles do, this becomes a schoolyard brawl more than a moderately civilized disagreement.  I can't say any side is entirely in the right.  I also can't say I approve of the tactics used by either side.  However, I do have this opinion I feel strongly about:  once you begin to use regular citizens as bombs, you really have lost the right to protest about unfair treatment when your chosen enemy shoots anything that moves that isn't them.    ----------------------- XO/LTC Fury/VEA/TADATH/VE [PoC][SotE:HC][SotE:VEA][IOC] Company Commander Shopkeeper - Imperial Center

Now, now JMac.  "Star Wars: The Republicans Strike Out" is, will be, and always has been a fat pork barrel arrangement with an almost zero percentage chance of succeeding in it's goals.  If we ever got into a large scale nuclear war, chances are nobody would be seriously vested in surviving a worldwide holocaust.  I'd be more interested in ground based intercept solutions such as a CAWS system on our ships.  Sure you take a hit, but not the one the enemy intended.  Plus, it isn't filled with triple redundancy solutions that would slow a space based system so much that we wouldn't intercept the one rogue Iraqi missile that ever gets produced.  I can see it now, "Um, we got a nuke launch.  Somebody find the president, and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs.  Plus we need to get the mayor of Toledo online and the local rep of the NRA.  Um...never mind.  Somebody call FEMA." So, unless you personally work for Raytheon or one of the big Northrop-Marietta-Boeing-Megacorp conglomerates, no one will see any "big time" payoffs on this system. As for the PLO, I totally agree with you.  Asking the Israelis to make a peace with those guys is like making death row inmates shoot themselves up for a lethal injection.
 
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XO/LTC Fury/VEA/TADATH/VE [PoC][SotE:HC][SotE:VEA][IOC]
Company Commander
Shopkeeper - Imperial Center