Ibram Tyrol wrote:Personally I have some qualms with Rule 11.
A cynical person might think it is there simply to enforce the status quo, to make sure the people in power stay in power whilst they deal with any malcontents behind closed doors.
There's not point in highlighting a an OP's/SO's flaws in private, because it doesn't accomplish anything. Not here anyway.
If you tell someone you have a problem with how they act over PM, then they will either ignore you, acknowledge you, or telll you to stuff it. Either way, nothing changes, and the mean time everyone is oblivous to any 'flaws' that exist in the command structure.
Do it public however, (although it should be i a calm and civilised manner) and you help raise awareness, you force the person in question to seriously think about their action, and you might bring it to the attention of that person's boss or however.
We are after all here to enjoy ourselves, not pander to the fragile egos of people who just happen to have been here longer then us. As such we should have some rights in order to try bring about change. I know you will then say to me "well that can be done via a pm"...
If I thought that would actually work, I wouldn't be making this point.
Wow.. I’m not sure if I read this correctly. You have a problem with an op and you say screw the CoC (both Code of Conduct and Chain of Command) I’m going to blast that person in public for things I don’t like about them.
That would be a nice slap in the face. I know that some of you don’t like the people that have higher ranks/positions than you around here but that’s something you’ll just have to put up with. If you have a problem with someone your first action
WILL be to talk to them in a private message first to try to reason out your differences. Your second action
WILL be to take the matter to that persons direct superior
IF AND ONLY IF the matter is not resolved. You will
ONLY move up the Chain of Command if the direct superior does not take care of things. (You’ll notice I’m using the words “you will” a lot.. there is no wiggle room in this. DO IT!)
Ibram Tyrol wrote:I would also like to see Rule 13 amended, as we have had several incidents in the past where officers have tried giving orders to people outside their usual chain of command, and it hasn't gone down too well. (I'm thinking inter-squadron here, not division) It needs to be clarified whether or not it is allowed, and to what degree, etc...
I have noticed a staggering amount of issues raised where someone felt that someone stepped out of bounds by “issuing orders to those they aren’t in charge of.” There are a few issues here to look at before opening your mouth about it:
1. Are you screwing up and deserve to get called out?
2. Is this person right in calling you out or telling you to do something you’re not?
3. Is this person maybe not in a direct position above you but still in a position that is higher than your own and deserving of some respect?
4. Is this an IRC-related issue in any way shape or form and is this person an op/hop?
5. If you are the one issuing orders to those under you.. why are you compelled to do it instead of that person’s superior?
Many of these complaints remind me of when I was the Commander of Training. I was outside of the Chain of Command but there wasn’t a trooper in the Army that didn’t listen to what I had to say. I was in the Army High Command and I didn’t overstep my bounds unless it was needed. Something for both sides to think about.
Ibram Tyrol wrote:You are trying to impose an Imperial style of rule on people who have grown up in democratic societies. Doesn't always work. Some people would rather try and change things before they quit, becuase we are by nature a stubborn race.
This always cracks me up. 98% of the people who complain about the fact that the VE isn’t a democracy don’t live in America. You Brits don’t even have democracy. Canadians don’t either.
*facepalms*
Ibram Tyrol wrote:You break that, and you get some un-happy people. But why would we leave? We've seen what's here, we like most of it, we feel like we deserve the right to stick around and to at least try to change things.
If you don't like THAT, then you're going to have to kick any and every malcontents, because we won't stop voicing our opinions.
Did you seriously just challenge me to a kicking spree?
…
Really?
Angel wrote: Ibram Tyrol wrote: But then who's going to populate your stories for you?
How about the 93 other people in the club who aren't crying about the CoC? Like I said before, other than Kadann, Talon, and Fury who keep the club/activities running, NO ONE IS IRREPLACEABLE.
You can remove Kadann, myself, and Fury from that list. It's something Majere once told me. He then proved it. As much as it would suck, even Kadann could be replaced.
