Hunter-Morrell
ComNet Veteran
[VE-NAVY] Warrant Officer 2nd Class [VE-VEEC] Word Slinger
Post Number: 1202
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Naval Academy Discussion
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November 9, 2009
4:37:14 PM
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Re-routed to here. Continue on as before.
Warrant Officer Second Class Hunter Morrell SC/WO2 Hunter-Morrell/Nazgul 1/Wing 1/mSSD Atrus/1Flt/VEN/VE [CBV][BRC][BWC][MC:1]
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Shazam
ComNet Sage
[VE-NAVY] Commodore [VE-VEEC] Journalist
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RE: Naval Academy Discussion
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November 9, 2009
5:55:25 PM
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The area that's been mostly discussed has been on the role of our exams and materials. To be fair, let me just take this from the side of folks who may want to keep exams in place as a means by which promotions and positions can be achieved:
If you decided to keep it, the realities are these: the Navy will become dependent on its members taking exams in a timely fashion so as not to hinder their efforts at promotions. Therefore, at the very least, the requirements for each exam would have to be clearly iterated to commanders and pilots so that no confusion exist on the proper time and pre-requisites for said exams. Furthermore, SCs would, as the bi-weekly discussion idea hints, have to ensure that special attention is given to whether or not members are keeping on top of their exams. In fact, we may have to outline it as one of their explicit duties- otherwise, the risk is high that members will forget to take them in that timely manner and unhappiness at delayed promotions/progress will result. Everything depends on squadrons' taking a stronger position, or efforts at reforming the academy will be in vain. Perhaps, over time, as the materials become more interesting, clean, and easier to read, special attention would be reduced as the culture of the VEN goes to completing these tests in a timely manner. Until that time, though... You get the idea. The conversion to the culture above, does, however, require that those materials become interesting, clean, and fun to read, otherwise, again, your efforts are in vain.
I have, however, a number of problems with the above system. I've espoused, already, my support of an 'interest/incentive' based system whereby members seek the materials themselves, accomplishing the initial goal of improving peoples' understanding of the things they write about. Furthermore, exams, as I see it, serve no real purpose: they prove reading comprehension and patience, (and these are good indicators of an intellectual), but are otherwise meaningless. Exams become more like road-blocks, especially in-light of the intensive materials members are expected to digest, and become the factor by which members are promoted or given certain positions. Exams set a minimum requirement for passage and "qualify" people for positions, meaning they can be expected to attain them. When people don't get a position after straining to complete these tests, they feel cheated. Exams, since they are a part of the academy, are also disconnected from the daily activities of pilots, and therefore feel like a pass and go activity, where the information is not guaranteed to ever be needed again and can be easily reduced to "required" instead of "food for thought". Most importantly, though, no material we offer them can develop the skills which actually qualify them: hard work, creativity, restraint, consistency, discipline. We can preach about these things, yes, and help commanders to identify these traits as indicators for promotion, but we can not test them (meaningfully anyways). The only way to see those things in action and "test" them, is to give members opportunities to take responsibility in their squadrons, and watch them work. Therefor, I would suggest we might focus on the roles commander's can play in offering said opportunities, versus tests we can create to qualify people.
*AND I'M OUT!*
*Flash Was Here...*
FM/COM Shazam/Nazgul 3-4/Phoenix Wing/mSSD Atrus/1VENF/VEN (=A=) (=*SA*=) (=MA=) (=*FOCE*=) [CBV*] [LoM] [LSM] [MC2] [VC:S] [SV*] [DSM] [KC] {Platinum Writing Medal}
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Atrasin
ComNet Member
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RE: Naval Academy Discussion
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November 9, 2009
6:14:30 PM
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I wholeheartedly agree w/you on the 'roadblock' POV. we need to diminish the barriers that get and keep folks in our grand Navy.
who among you saw the real reason for noob DiDreg's quick exit last week...i did, he took one look at the readings and tests and said, "thank you, no" and skeedaddled.
the quicker we throw these tests onto the dustheap of history the better.
WC|CO|LCM Geordi "Driver" Atrasin/Phoenix 1-1/CVT Taskmaster/1VENF/VEN/VE/[=A=][=^SA^=][=^ME^=][=*MA*=][=FOCE=][MC1]{BWC}[NSR:1]{SAS}{SWC} Vacuus Ordo, Nex -Without Order, Death All a man can betray is his conscience. - Joseph ConradWe few, we happy few. We band of brothers. - Henry V May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - General George S. Patton Jr.
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Drac
ComNet Member
[VE-NAVY] Chief Petty Officer
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RE: Naval Academy Discussion
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November 9, 2009
6:52:34 PM
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I vote in support of the roadblock POV as well. My thoughts echo Shazam's.
-Drac
XO/CPO Drac/Nazgul 3-9/Phoenix Wing/mSSD Atrus/1st Imperial Fleet/VEN/VE (=*A*=)(=*SA*=) [SoA][MC:2][MC:1][NSR:H][NT:H]He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep in order to gain what he cannot lose.Drac's VE Wiki Profile: http://www.vastempire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Drac
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Darkhawk
ComNet Disciple
[VE-DJO] Sith Corruptor [VE-NAVY] Commodore
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RE: Naval Academy Discussion
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November 9, 2009
7:09:34 PM
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I hated the exam system back when I was NTO. It has its purposes in ... certain other divisions in the VE ... but it's not necessary within the Navy. There are plenty of other factors the NHC can use to decide whether or not a pilot is worthy of promotion.
COM Darkhawk/VEN/VE/(=SCPA=)(=MA=)(=FCO=)[LoR][LSM][BRC][MC1][CBV.][VC:E][NDM][KC:OC]
SC Darkhawk/Sith/VEDJ/VE/[VP:1][SoY][EoP][CR]
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Arturo
ComNet Novice Imperial Baronet
[VE-NAVY] Senior Crewman
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RE: Naval Academy Discussion
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November 9, 2009
9:56:40 PM
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Would there be a way to make the exams tougher for those who want to be challenged but rewarded greater, but make them optional to everyone? Much like Shazam suggested with some Academy material-its extra stuff that can help you if you want it to, if not, meh.
SCRW Arturo LeeNazgul Squadron Flight 3 Member Imperial Baronet FM/SCRW Arturo Lee/Nazgul 3-11/Phoenix Wing/mSSD Atrus/1FLT/VEN/VE/(=*A*=)
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Shazam
ComNet Sage
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RE: Naval Academy Discussion
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November 9, 2009
10:29:37 PM
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Glad you asked, Arturo, and this is where I was hoping we could get some suggestions going. While the materials on leadership type things will probably be directed by commanders, other pieces of a more technical nature, like on the way a TIE fighter runs/operates, or on tactics, or whatever have you, could be (I thought) incentivized. If people read them, then we could actually write short tests to show understanding, and then offer something in return for their efforts. Perhaps after every exam, a certain monetary value is given, but after three, you're given, in addition to the ICs, something more substantial. Not a medal, but perhaps an additional patch to the ID that signifies someone's knowledge, much like the ComNet gives titles to people according to their post number. At the time, I thought we could also link it into the Skills/Proficiencies System, and offer people more points or a higher status for their 'education,' so to speak. If nothing else, it could be something that, again, commanders could use as a benchmark in promotions. We shouldn't guarentee that, but if mentioned in reports, commanders might take note and use that in combination with other factors to perhaps promote slightly earlier. I'm kind of spit-ballin though: other thoughts?
*Flash Was Here...*
FM/COM Shazam/Nazgul 3-4/Phoenix Wing/mSSD Atrus/1VENF/VEN (=A=) (=*SA*=) (=MA=) (=*FOCE*=) [CBV*] [LoM] [LSM] [MC2] [VC:S] [SV*] [DSM] [KC] {Platinum Writing Medal}
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Gunnay
ComNet Cadet
[VE-NAVY] Senior Crewman
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RE: Naval Academy Discussion
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November 9, 2009
10:32:03 PM
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Why not give members the opportunities to create manuals and tests, pending the approval of the NTO and NHC. If someone takes the time and is interested enough to create a manual and test there is most likely someone out there who is going to want to take it.
Senior Crewman Gunnay
FORMERLY:
Nazgul 3-2
Adjutant to the Training Officer
A:TO/FM/SCRW Gunnay/Nazgul 3-2/Wing I/mSSD Atrus/1VIF/VEN/VE (=*A*=)
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Atrasin
ComNet Member
[VE-NAVY] Lt. Commander
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RE: Naval Academy Discussion
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November 9, 2009
10:38:11 PM
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Shaz and Gunnay,
take a look at the 'Imperial War College' section in my Academy proposal...i think this would be the place to put that 'higher level' portion you've talked about.
WC|CO|LCM Geordi "Driver" Atrasin/Phoenix 1-1/CVT Taskmaster/1VENF/VEN/VE/[=A=][=^SA^=][=^ME^=][=*MA*=][=FOCE=][MC1]{BWC}[NSR:1]{SAS}{SWC} Vacuus Ordo, Nex -Without Order, Death All a man can betray is his conscience. - Joseph ConradWe few, we happy few. We band of brothers. - Henry V May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - General George S. Patton Jr.
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Shazam
ComNet Sage
[VE-NAVY] Commodore [VE-VEEC] Journalist
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RE: Naval Academy Discussion
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November 9, 2009
10:43:19 PM
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Also a great thought, Gunnay. It had occurred to me as well, based on interest/incentive, we could actually allow people's enthusiasm to drive the construction of our databases versus a long dredge to make the VENA-S build it. Perhaps they could lay the ground-work, but areas like "Tactics" or "Offensive and Defensive Maneuvers" could easily be built-up and strengthened by outside input. In fact, articles on anything could be submitted to the VENA-S, or NHC depending on the subject matter, peer-reviewed, and then added to the academy wiki.
Also, as a random side note, we could also incentivize people in building onto their squadron's story archives: again, offer rewards or maybe a special recognition at meetings, etc, for people who go out of their way to enrich the Navy. Do it enough times, and you could be considered for certain medals. Not to make it easy, lol, but it's a thought.
*Flash Was Here...*
FM/COM Shazam/Nazgul 3-4/Phoenix Wing/mSSD Atrus/1VENF/VEN (=A=) (=*SA*=) (=MA=) (=*FOCE*=) [CBV*] [LoM] [LSM] [MC2] [VC:S] [SV*] [DSM] [KC] {Platinum Writing Medal}
[This message has been edited by
Shazam
(edited November 9, 2009
10:49:46 PM)]
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Gunnay
ComNet Cadet
[VE-NAVY] Senior Crewman
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RE: Naval Academy Discussion
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November 9, 2009
10:59:21 PM
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Here's another idea:
Create manuals and tests for:
-single fighter tactics
-wingman tactics
-flight tactics
-squadron tactics
-energy weapons
-missiles
-fighters
-frigates
-destroyers
etc etc etc
This will take time, but there is no downside to doing it over time.
Now, make each one of these specific tests graded on the following scale (for example, could be tweaked):
95-100%: Expert
85-95%: Superior
75-85%: Qualified
65-75%: Adequate
Below 65%: Failed
Say, for every test passed as an Expert, add 1k ICs to monthly pay. Superior 500, Qualified 250 and Adequate 100. Also, encourage people to add these to their ID lines, IE:
[INSERT/RANDOM/ID/LINE/HERE]
Rated Expert in: squadron tactics, fighters, frigates
Rated Superior in: energy weapons
Rated Qualified in: frigates
Rated Adequate in: destroyers
Also, have the tests be multiple-choice so theyre easy to grade and make them standard, too. Say 20 questions per test. 10 easy question, 7 difficult questons, and 3 hard questions (as advised by submittor of test to be accepted by NTO).
@Atrasin: Link to War College post? Couldnt find it :/
Senior Crewman Gunnay
FORMERLY:
Nazgul 3-2
Adjutant to the Training Officer
A:TO/FM/SCRW Gunnay/Nazgul 3-2/Wing I/mSSD Atrus/1VIF/VEN/VE (=*A*=)
[This message has been edited by
Gunnay
(edited November 9, 2009
11:00:01 PM)]
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Atrasin
ComNet Member
[VE-NAVY] Lt. Commander
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RE: Naval Academy Discussion
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November 9, 2009
11:05:28 PM
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here 'tis - OOC:
- Imperial Naval Academy:
I Nebula Squadron: Entry level –Basic training II Top Gun: CPO min. – Specialties III Officer Candidate School: CWO min –FOCE IV Imperial War College: Captain min (NCC must recommend)
I Nebula Squadron: Entry Level [Requirement to enter: Joining VE] Basic intro to VE structure Reporting Guidelines Character development/Creation Writing Ability Evaluation/tips/pointers Aviator’s Exam (AE) – 10 questions (basic) 90-100%- SCRW 60-80%- LCRW 50%- CRW 50% or less – retake exam **At this point they may decide if they wish to join the Starfighters Corp or join the Capital Ship Service.
II Top Gun: CPO min rank to apply [Requirement to enter: Pass Senior Aviator’s Exam (SAE)- 20 ques. – 75% or higher score] Tech information Flying Techniques/Deck Skills Basic Leadership Skills Writing Ability Evaluation – Must have a marked improvement from Nebula Squadron Minor Exams (ME) - 20 ques. – 90-100%- MCPO 75-90% - SCPO Less than 75% - retake exam
III Officer Candidate School: CWO min rank to apply [Requirement to enter: Pass Master Aviator’s Exam (MA) –observed/quizzed by NTO – Recommended by Wing Commander] VE History Advanced Leadership Skills Management Skills: both time management and personnel Fleet Officers Candidate Exam (FOCE) – Submit proposal/ research/ develop - pass/fail graded by NTO and NXO – Pass w/Honors – First Lieutenant (1LT) Pass – Second Lieutenant (2LT)
IV Imperial War College: Captain min rank to apply [Requirement to enter: one year active service as officer] Tactics/Strategic Thinking Technical Writing Some RL military & management readings *Art of War – Sun Tzu *How to Win Friends/Influence People- Dale Carnegie *other readings as candidate sees fit Thesis – oral quiz by NHC Degree awarded by vote of NHC Could award either Master of Fleet Administration (MFA) or Doctor of Fleet Administration (PhD)
WC|CO|LCM Geordi "Driver" Atrasin/Phoenix 1-1/CVT Taskmaster/1VENF/VEN/VE/[=A=][=^SA^=][=^ME^=][=*MA*=][=FOCE=][MC1]{BWC}[NSR:1]{SAS}{SWC} Vacuus Ordo, Nex -Without Order, Death All a man can betray is his conscience. - Joseph ConradWe few, we happy few. We band of brothers. - Henry V May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - General George S. Patton Jr.
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Drac
ComNet Member
[VE-NAVY] Chief Petty Officer
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RE: Naval Academy Discussion
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November 9, 2009
11:10:32 PM
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ID lines tend to get hellishly long already, so I'll pass on the additional tags. Instead, we could easily add a section to our wiki pages detailing what areas we've rated expert in.
I'm really excited about the idea to give points for the CPS upon completion of optional exams and/or for work to create guides. That's a great incentive and something that's easily done.
-Drac
XO/CPO Drac/Nazgul 3-9/Phoenix Wing/mSSD Atrus/1st Imperial Fleet/VEN/VE (=*A*=)(=*SA*=) [SoA][MC:2][MC:1][NSR:H][NT:H]He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep in order to gain what he cannot lose.Drac's VE Wiki Profile: http://www.vastempire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Drac
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Shazam
ComNet Sage
[VE-NAVY] Commodore [VE-VEEC] Journalist
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RE: Naval Academy Discussion
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November 9, 2009
11:37:15 PM
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*nods to Drac*
War College also has (had) a name in the VE Academy as well. There was supposed to be a specialized school for folks who wanted to go above and beyond, but clearly we never got to it. Driver's got some text that I never actually thought to include: I was ganna make it more technically intensive though, and like he suggest, require technical writing. It's definitely a thought.
And I thought someone might say that about the ID lines, lol- puttin 'em on the wikis might be best, Drac, you're right.
*Flash Was Here...*
FM/COM Shazam/Nazgul 3-4/Phoenix Wing/mSSD Atrus/1VENF/VEN (=A=) (=*SA*=) (=MA=) (=*FOCE*=) [CBV*] [LoM] [LSM] [MC2] [VC:S] [SV*] [DSM] [KC] {Platinum Writing Medal}
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Gunnay
ComNet Cadet
[VE-NAVY] Senior Crewman
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RE: Naval Academy Discussion
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November 9, 2009
11:37:37 PM
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Ah, sorry, yea adding to the Wiki pages is cool. I just meant throw them in your sig or something as a "hey look what Ive done" type of thing.
Senior Crewman Gunnay
FORMERLY:
Nazgul 3-2
Adjutant to the Training Officer
A:TO/FM/SCRW Gunnay/Nazgul 3-2/Wing I/mSSD Atrus/1VIF/VEN/VE (=*A*=)
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Denethor
ComNet Sultan
[VE-NAVY] Captain
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RE: Naval Academy Discussion
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November 10, 2009
9:11:48 PM
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Drive, I like the Academy set up. I think the testing the way you've set it up is really the way we need to go. No more of the little piddly tests to get you to Petty Officer, or whatever. The basic exam needs to be something that lets us know that the trainee is actually aware of what the VEN is and can operate in its ranks.
I like the idea that you need to pass the MAE to get into the Officer's School, great thought there. Only, where does the rank of Ensign fall into that?
I would love to see the FOCE become a more personal exam again. When I took it, it was like the MAE is now (I know I've said this before). There needs to be something that let's us know, one on one, that the person is ready for command.
As for the War College, we could use the idea of the FOCE as the "thesis" and then perform the oral type quiz as a High Council.
Kam "Denethor" Vox Captain Naval Executive Officer Phoenix Wing Commander Captain of Corellian Corvette Ferrum Umbra Vast Empire Navy NXO/WC/CCAP/CPT Denethor/CVT Ferrum Umbra/Phoenix 1-1/VEN/VE(=A=)(=SA=)(=FOCE=)[LoR][LSM][LoM] "Only the dead have seen the end of war." -Plato Every drop of blood. Every bitter tear. Every bead of sweat. I live for this.
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Atrasin
ComNet Member
[VE-NAVY] Lt. Commander
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RE: Naval Academy Discussion
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November 10, 2009
9:17:33 PM
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i'd say that when you pass your MAE to get into OCS you automatically become an Ensign, because you're now in training to become an officer, and an Ensign is essentially a officer in training rank.
WC|CO|LCM Geordi "Driver" Atrasin/Phoenix 1-1/CVT Taskmaster/1VENF/VEN/VE/[=A=][=^SA^=][=^ME^=][=*MA*=][=FOCE=][MC1]{BWC}[NSR:1]{SAS}{SWC} Vacuus Ordo, Nex -Without Order, Death All a man can betray is his conscience. - Joseph ConradWe few, we happy few. We band of brothers. - Henry V May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - General George S. Patton Jr.
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StOrMz
ComNet Marshal Imperial Baronet
[VE-NAVY] 2nd Lieutenant [VE-VEEC] Ink Slinger
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RE: Naval Academy Discussion
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November 11, 2009
10:18:16 AM
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I, as well, like the MAE and FOCE idea. Drac, Doc and the rest of the VENA crew (mainly the first two) have created a new system for VENA called the Character Proficiency System. What this system does is gives a new member a layout to create a character for use during his career in the VEN. The plan is for this to go into effect Friday. I would like to get a general consensus of what everyone thinks BEFORE it goes in. If you search "CPS" in the vewiki, you will notice more pages for this. If you want read those and comment on them as well. 2nd Lt. Stormz Naval Training Officer
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Drac
ComNet Member
[VE-NAVY] Chief Petty Officer
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RE: Naval Academy Discussion
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November 11, 2009
10:37:51 AM
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The system will focus on defining what areas a character has developed skill in. One part of this for all current members will include taking a look at past missions and evaluating performance in them. If a said mission meets the requirements (4 posts that do something to develop the character in some way) points will be awarded for that mission.
The best way to describe it is to say that it's simply putting numbers to the weaknesses and strengths we all write into our characters.
(Note: I'll be writing up a guide on how to use the system, which will be posted in the VENA section.)
-Drac
XO/CPO Drac/Nazgul 3-9/Phoenix Wing/mSSD Atrus/1st Imperial Fleet/VEN/VE (=*A*=)(=*SA*=) [SoA][MC:2][MC:1][NSR:H][NT:H]He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep in order to gain what he cannot lose.Drac's VE Wiki Profile: http://www.vastempire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Drac
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Ibram Tyrol
ComNet Veteran
[VE-NAVY] 1st Lieutenant [VE-VEEC] Journalist
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RE: Naval Academy Discussion
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November 11, 2009
11:48:31 AM
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For the record, I never liked the CPS idea, mainly on grounds that it's too 'RPG' for my liking.
That's not to say it's not a good piece of work, it is and Drac and Doc should be very proud of what they've created, I just don't think this is what the VE is all about. Looking at it, it is very detailed and technical, and could severly affect peoples already established writing styles (I guess it wouldnt pose much of a problem for new people though.)
Anyway, just my two pence, will be interesting to see how it plays out.
"Determining the appropiate level of interference in somebody elses war is never a simple matter."
- Special Circumstances
Ensign Ibram Tyrol Viper Squadron Commanding Officer We fly, you die
--------------------------------------- Adjunctant Office of the Naval Executive Officer --------------------------------------- VEN SC/ADJ:NXO/ENS Ibram Tyrol/Viper 1/mSSD Atrus/1W/1FL/VEN/{=*A*=}{=*SA*=}{=*ME*=}{=*MAE*=}{=*FOCE*=}/[NER]
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Arturo
ComNet Novice Imperial Baronet
[VE-NAVY] Senior Crewman
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RE: Naval Academy Discussion
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November 11, 2009
12:01:58 AM
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/me scratches his head in confusion
That guide must be necessary Drac, cuz I can't figure out what exactly to to. Is it that, or am I an idiot?
Don't answer that...
SCRW Arturo LeeNazgul Squadron Flight 3 Member Imperial Baronet FM/SCRW Arturo Lee/Nazgul 3-11/Phoenix Wing/mSSD Atrus/1FLT/VEN/VE/(=*A*=)
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Willtconq
ComNet Sage
[VE-NAVY] 2nd Lieutenant
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RE: Naval Academy Discussion
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November 11, 2009
12:06:47 AM
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is there any way to make the tree into a more progressive tree format. Where certain skills require, not just compliment, another skill. such as Medical would Require, not just compliment, Science.
Right now there's 47 skills ( i actually counted) and seems really really really confusing. maybe if they're shown on a chart of some sort with just the names.
As for Ibram's concern. What VE is all about is constantly changing. i'm sure you know, when VE first began, it was a gaming community, no writing, barely any ComNet usage, etc. Things change, maybe this is one of them.
-(William the Conquerer)- Ex Ship Captain of Tiamut King of PPC 16,000 clicks and counting "A dishonest man, you can always trust to be dishonest. Honestly, it's the honest ones you want to watch out for, because you can never predict when they're gonna do something incredibly stupid." - Captain Jack Sparrow "Happy endings are just stories that haven't finished yet." - Jane Smith FM/2LT Willtconq/Nazgul 2-4/Phoenix Wing/mSSD Atrus/1st Fleet/VEN /VE (=*A*=) (=*SA*=)(=^MA^=) [VC:S][SV][BWC][SWC][LSM][CBV]
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Arturo
ComNet Novice Imperial Baronet
[VE-NAVY] Senior Crewman
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RE: Naval Academy Discussion
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November 11, 2009
12:08:07 AM
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I agree with Will- as our current situation proves, stagnation is our worst enemy.
SCRW Arturo LeeNazgul Squadron Flight 3 Member Imperial Baronet FM/SCRW Arturo Lee/Nazgul 3-11/Phoenix Wing/mSSD Atrus/1FLT/VEN/VE/(=*A*=)
[This message has been edited by
Arturo
(edited November 11, 2009
12:08:26 AM)]
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Drac
ComNet Member
[VE-NAVY] Chief Petty Officer
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RE: Naval Academy Discussion
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November 11, 2009
12:24:53 AM
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The system actually won't require much of you once you understand it. Basically, it will call for four things:
1. Check with your commanding officer after each mission or CD story and request that they evaluate it for the CPS if they have not already. They will award points to be spent on the system.
2. Using those points, you can increase any characteristic/skill/metier or get a new one.
3. Do a CD story about aquiring that new skill or increased level of skill. Doesn't have to be long, but it can be used to get even more points if it qualifies.
4. Remember what your skills and metiers are.
Will: I agree with you and we can definitely look into that, but it will take some time. I'd like to see how the system runs as-is before we make it more complicated.
I understand that the system appears to be overwhelming...it overwhelmed me, too, at first. I will be getting with the VENA staff personally to ensure that all of us can teach the system and answer questions about it, and we will train you guys. Anyone can come to me at any time with questions or suggestions and I'll be happy to speak with you.
-Drac
XO/CPO Drac/Nazgul 3-9/Phoenix Wing/mSSD Atrus/1st Imperial Fleet/VEN/VE (=*A*=)(=*SA*=) [SoA][MC:2][MC:1][NSR:H][NT:H]He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep in order to gain what he cannot lose.Drac's VE Wiki Profile: http://www.vastempire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Drac
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Shazam
ComNet Sage
[VE-NAVY] Commodore [VE-VEEC] Journalist
Post Number: 3693
Total Posts: 4197
Joined: Jun 2003
Status: Offline
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RE: Naval Academy Discussion
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November 11, 2009
12:47:54 AM
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(This is long- I appologize, but I'm ganna take this opportunity to not only comment on the previous point, but also lay a proposition for how I figure folks will be instructed, with or without exams.)
I'm actually with Ibram on this one: I'd like to get a better understanding of this system and 'test' it before making it a piece of the Navy's fabric. If we tried to integrate it wholesale, much like if we tried to simply pool recruits into a CSS program, the process would be messy, frustrating, and probably result in failure. Therefore- when it comes to the CPS- I suggest Drac and maybe a few others do a trial run for themselves, even if they think they really understand it. Try making one from scratch by yourselves and be objective with yourselves: Is it time-consuming? Is it potentially confusing? How much help will people need moving it along? And, perhaps over the course of a story- are points (like our problems with promotions) being assigned and allocated accordingly? I haven't read through the details, of course, so some of the above may not be necessary questions, but step outside your creation and really ask yourself if it's working in the Navy's interest. That being said, I have plenty of faith that you'd do so anyway. Don't be abashed if you find something wrong with it and it needs some serious reworking either: it takes time to make programs work effectively.
Den (welcome to the discussion) and Driver: I'm thinking that what you're promoting here is a series of tests that would cover technical materials, as well as more philosophic ones. You've also included some reviews of writing samples. All of these materials and exams are aimed at creating a sort of pre-requisite to command positions (SC and higher), right?. Now, I've voiced my concerns about making tests so that you can promote off of them, but you've heard that spiel, so let me attack this from a different angle. Hope I'm not sounding arrogant, lol, but hear me out:
Let's just say you get all of these materials together and everything is perfected: very well articulated. Let's also say that we've got a pilot that's super active and has great potential for command. Assumedly, the pilot will ask the SC for a recommendation to take the MAE, because he assumes he's going to be eligable for officerhood/promotions, etc. The SC gives the okay, and the pilot heads off to the war college. While the pilot is enthused, his reaction is evident: "Holy crap- this is a lot of material," he says. He'll dive through it of course, but it's hard work on top of his devotion to his squadron. "It's a bitch," is often heard.
That comment, which I've heard many times before, is an indicator that we're missing something very important. While our heads are in the right place (asking people to learn technical information improves their writing), we're actually shifting the focus from learning and fun, to a struggle over completing this exam. You might say- "well the materials are shorter and cleaner," but then the test is hardly worth putting together: we don't want pilots to learn a minimum so that they can be worthy of officerhood. The point is that the materials at the War College have to be gradually introduced, not dropped into someone's lap when they want to take the test. If you want the War College to work, you can't just spring it on them: they should have already read most of those materials by the time they're asked to test.
This means starting in the squadron: as a pilot shows activity and ambition, the SC's must recognize that pilot's efforts and reinforce them. But how? Usually, pilots showing promise are given positions like flight leader, graduating them to a higher level of responsibility and insight. In addition to this, however, SCs should also begin to offer reading material to these members. One page at a time of course, selected from a suggested list of links, so that the pilot is never overwhelmed; I suspect that pilots will also be more enthusiastic about the materials if they feel their commander is behind them. As time goes on, and more materials are digested, that individual's writing will evolve and their level of detail will become greater. At this point, the mission is accomplished: members are legitametly better read than they were before, and have a number of resources from which to develop ideas. But what about the test? Again, no test can show drive or enthusiasm, desire or leadership; what they can do is make measurements. And, perhaps after six to seven months, an appropriate measurement should be taken. So, the SC would suggest to the pilot that they take the Master Aviator's Exam, a test to examine how the pilot's technical understanding has grown.
Perhaps you've caught it, but I've already defined the MAE differently. Instead of saying- "I want you to become a commander, so I'd like you to take this test," we're saying- "you've learned a lot: now let's see where you stand among peers." You see, the test is a test of your knowledge: it's not a benchmark or means of promotion. It provides an individual with an understanding of how they measure up: that's it. Therefore, there is no expectation associated with taking the test: you won't be promoted and you won't be given a position. Despite that, I'm confident most pilots would welcome the challenge of a knowledge/trivia based exam.
Therefore, positions and promotions will not have pre-requesites like "MAE" or "FOCE" - they are still, primarilly, driven by activity and leadership skills. Therefore, the integrity of the system (work hard and you will be rewarded) remains intact; simultaneously, our pilots are offered a way to show their superior knowledge, whilst becoming better writers and valuable resources to the Navy.
Again- the test means nothing to anyone except the individual- it's a mark of one's pursuit for self-knowledge. And perhaps we could offer more challenging exams beyond the MAE, like the FOCE, which could be over philosophical materials like Tzu's the Art of War, but again: it means nothing in regards to positions or promotions- it's for the individual. If you choose to do the opposite: promote and position off of exams, you're asking for trouble, guys. Take a glance at my previous posts to see the whirlwind of problems associated with said concept.
As you can see, the SC/XOs are playing a larger role in training, too: it's not the academy. Why? Because the squadron command staff is in the best position to determine who is ready for these materials, and can introduce them gradually without a massive layer of bureaucracy. Can the VENA-S do that? Hardly- they're completely disconnected and can see things only as they pop up. The role of the VENA-S is to maintain and update the wiki, improve the wiki (graphics, better writing), supervise BT, and assist pilots and commanders in the locating of materials. I can also see where the VENA-S could, potentially, open a small training group for individuals falling behind on their writing (though I can't see it as a core principle right now).
While I would encourage this approach if implemented correctly, I stress also that, by placing the role of trainer on SCs and XOs, we have to make sure that we're not overwhelming our commanders as well. Instead, this has to be a culture change where the SCs and XOs, instinctivelly, view the progress of a pilot and say- "Hey, you should read this- it'll make you even better." Anywho- That's my spiel: sorry for the long explanation, but it's my best laid plan at this point.
*Flash Was Here...*
FM/COM Shazam/Nazgul 3-4/Phoenix Wing/mSSD Atrus/1VENF/VEN (=A=) (=*SA*=) (=MA=) (=*FOCE*=) [CBV*] [LoM] [LSM] [MC2] [VC:S] [SV*] [DSM] [KC] {Platinum Writing Medal}
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Arturo
ComNet Initiate Imperial Baronet
[VE-NAVY] Senior Crewman
Post Number: 124
Total Posts: 277
Joined: Oct 2009
Status: Offline
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RE: Naval Academy Discussion
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November 16, 2009
12:55:10 AM
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Driver and I had a discussion, and the idea of Top Gun came up, I think he proposed it several posts ago... Maybe it's in a different thread, but the idea I got from it was this:
In the US Navy, TOPGUN is the advanced combat, tactics, and flight school for the Navy's pilots. The best of the best get sent there to train, compete, and improve. If you have no idea what I'm referring to, go watch the movie, you'll at least have a Hollywood understanding of the concept. Anyhow, why not, instead of those evil exams, have a TOPGUN course for pilots whose commanders think they are ready to go above and beyond their current capacities. This could replace the exams, a portion of the Academy, whatever. Something to think about...
SCRW Arturo LeeNazgul Squadron Flight 3 Member Imperial Baronet FM/SCRW Arturo Lee/Nazgul 3-3/Phoenix Wing/mSSD Atrus/1FLT/VEN/VE/(=*A*=)
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Meldrakor
ComNet n00b
[VE-NAVY] Crewman
Post Number: 1
Total Posts: 1
Joined: Feb 2010
Status: Offline
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RE: Naval Academy Discussion
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February 3, 2010
11:16:03 AM
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*Shrugs* I'm new to this group of people, so uh.. Hi.
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Willtconq
ComNet Lord
[VE-NAVY] 1st Lieutenant
Post Number: 4024
Total Posts: 4599
Joined: Oct 2004
Status: Offline
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RE: Naval Academy Discussion
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February 3, 2010
2:17:49 PM
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Please head on over to the Naval Academy Section and create a new topic to announce your "arrival". and a Training Officer will be along shortly to being your Basic Training.
-(William the Conquerer)- Ex Ship Captain of Tiamut King of PPC 17,000 clicks and counting "Have to trust someone to be betrayed. I never did." - Cpt John Price FM/1LT Willtconq/A-4/S:147 "Nazgul"/W:1 "Phoenix"/mSSD Atrus/TF:A/1Flt/SFC/VEN /VE SCPT/1LT Willtconq/C-LC Tempest/TF:X/5Flt/CSS/VEN/VE (=*A*=) (=*SA*=)(=^MA^=) [VC:S][SV][BWC][SWC][LSM][CBV][NC]
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Hunter-Morrell
ComNet Marshal
[VE-NAVY] Warrant Officer 1st Class [VE-VEEC] Word Slinger
Post Number: 1478
Total Posts: 2071
Joined: Jun 2008
Status: Offline
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RE: Naval Academy Discussion
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February 3, 2010
3:59:16 PM
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Now that this has been effectively dug up from the grave, anybody want to continue discussion?
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Slasher
ComNet Member
[VE-NAVY] Senior Chief Petty Officer
Post Number: 471
Total Posts: 1054
Joined: Oct 2008
Status: Offline
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RE: Naval Academy Discussion
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February 8, 2010
8:31:50 AM
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Well, it has been a while since I had any weight to my voice in how the VENA operates, but I'll give it some thought, expect that I will have some ideas when I come back from my Leave.
FM/SCPO Slasher/B-4/S:147 "Nazgul"/W:1 "Pheonix"/mSSD Atrus/TF:A/1Flt/SFC/VEN/VE [CBV][MC:1][SWC][BWC](=*A*=)(=*SA*=)(=^ME^=)
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