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Topic:  Iraq then Iran
Typex3
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  RE: Iraq then Iran
June 21, 2006 3:56:07 PM    View the profile of Typex3 
Oh boy, What has this place turn into. There is Opinions flying evrywhere. Iran then Iraq, United states to Mexico, and Rebels. This looks like a ministry of nothingness. lol, Yeah the problem is nuclear substances where found on iran, so the united states thinks there some kind of allies of terrorisim.
 
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~Dark Dragoons~
TRP/PCF Typex3/2SQD/1PLT/1COM/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE

"You must unlearn what you have learned. Once you start down the dark path,
Forever will it dominate your destiny, Consume you it will"
Arturus
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  RE: Iraq then Iran
June 21, 2006 8:33:29 PM    View the profile of Arturus 
I was at a security conference over the weekend and I came out with a belief that I think has merit.  How do we define weapon of mass destruction?  We always define it in terms of lives lost and indeed that is a very natural human thing to do.  But consider how hard it is for a terrorist to acquire one, bring it to North America, and use it.  They can make homemade bombs here and indeed that is a concern as the arrests in Toronto show.  However, biological weapons are largely ineffective given how hard they are to acquire and disperse in such a way to have an impact.  Chemical weapons also are hard to disperse and use to any great effect as we have seen in Japan.  Nuclear weapons are extremely hard to acquire/build and require tremendous effort and organization to get into place.  We have to ask ourselves first of all: do terrorist simply want to exterminate people or is it something else.  Terrorism isn't about mass murder, it is about fear and disruption.  As a result, I think we need a broader definition of WMDs just as we need a broader definition of war.

Electromagnetic pulse weapons.  The technology is commercially available an easy to acquire.  As I learned at this conference, it would take limited effort for a terrorist to acquire and use this technology and yet we do not mention it nor do we prepare against it.  This is not science fiction but today's reality.  In a society wholly dependent on computers and electricity, an EMP attack on New York City would have an extremely destructive impact on global commerce.  To me, this would seem to be one of the more likely tools of a terrorist.  It is destructive economically, disruptive to the western world, and would instill tremendous fear as people realize just how vulnerable we all are thanks to the nature of our society and the difficulty of defending against such a weapon.  It's time to address some of these possibilities.
 
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WAJ/2LT Corran "Arturus" Hargraves/M-SSD Atrus/VE/VEN/(=A=)(=SA=)(=*MA*=)(=JCPA=)(=SCPA=)[MC:1](x2)[SV][BRC][VC:B][LSM][LoC]


"The way of war is a way of deception. When able, feign inability; when deploying troops, appear not to be. When near, appear far; when far, appear near. Lure with bait; strike with chaos. If the enemy is full, be prepared. If strong, avoid him. If he is angry, disconcert him. If he is weak, stir him to pride. If he is relaxed, harry him; if his men are harmonious, split them. Attack where he is unprepared; appear where you are unexpected. This is victory in warfare; it cannot be divulged in advance. Victory belongs to the side that scores most in the temple calculations before battle. Most spells victory; least spells defeat; none, surer defeat. I see it in this way, and the outcome is apparent." -- Sun Tzu

"Ultimate excellence lies not in winning every battle but in defeating the enemy without ever fighting." -- Sun Tzu
Kairo
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  RE: Iraq then Iran
June 21, 2006 9:04:51 PM    View the profile of Kairo 
That's true Art. But it is pretty much impossible to stop an EMP blast. There may be a way, but I don't think it has been discovered or studied yet. It isn't like you can stop an electromagnetic surge. Yes, we should know about it and try prepare, but it would be almost impossibe to actually protect NY city if an EMP bomb did go off in Time Square, for instance.
 
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Garet Daimun
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  RE: Iraq then Iran
June 21, 2006 9:14:00 PM    View the profile of Garet Daimun 
Not to mention all those poor people with pacemakers.

But, Art, I think you're overanalyising this. The term "Terrorist" is quite obvious, they inspire terror/fear. You don't need any reasoning to determine that.
 
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DarkDragoons
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Atrick25
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  RE: Iraq then Iran
June 22, 2006 10:58:23 AM    View the profile of Atrick25 
But now what about North Korea? They have a missle on the platform and the US has armed it's missle defense system. I live in Wisconsin though, so I don't really have anything to worry about.
 
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FM/LCRW Atrick25/Nazgul-11/Phoenix Wing/[mSSD Artrus]/1VENF]/VEN/VE (=A=)
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Garet Daimun
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  RE: Iraq then Iran
June 22, 2006 11:07:23 AM    View the profile of Garet Daimun 
Oh please. Kim Jong Il doesn't have the stones to attack the US. We're like 50 times bigger than his country.
 
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DarkDragoons
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Atrick25
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  RE: Iraq then Iran
June 22, 2006 11:12:55 AM    View the profile of Atrick25 
But he does have a missle on the platform.

People are known to do stupid, crazy things...
 
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FM/LCRW Atrick25/Nazgul-11/Phoenix Wing/[mSSD Artrus]/1VENF]/VEN/VE (=A=)
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Nerds stick together! (Until Football Players storm us, because then we run like the girly men we are!)

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Jennabelle
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  RE: Iraq then Iran
June 24, 2006 8:10:06 AM    View the profile of Jennabelle 
yeah, kind of like the man who started this damn war or the man who started the vietnam war, or the idiots who started WWII, hitler being one of them.
 
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DarkDragoons

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"Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force. " -Darth Vader
Garet Daimun
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  RE: Iraq then Iran
June 24, 2006 9:29:07 AM    View the profile of Garet Daimun 
Hitler actually never started the war... It was France and England that did.
 
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Jester Squad
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Trix
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  RE: Iraq then Iran
June 24, 2006 9:48:50 AM    View the profile of Trix 
Actually, its was the Agreement of Versialles. I know its not called that, but I can't remember what is is English.
My history is a bit rusty, but Jenny lemme try and explain this war to you quickly. Of course Art will throw in a correction or two

Anyhow. Austria started the First World war after their crown prince was killed. Germany was Austria's ally and etc. Germany ruled WW1 and when they lost it was agreed that Germany should never be allowed to become that strong again.

Germany was forced to shut down most of his military defences, and alot of other stuff(Can't remember evrything} that ruined Germany economically, and they also had to pay of all their war debt and damage.

This all happened in 1919 when the war ended if I am not correct, so of course when the great depression broke out it ruined them even further.

Hitler grew up with an abusive step-father, he wanted to study art, but his works was rejected and his went of to start a political carreer. He believed in dinamic leadership, and inspired the nation greatly with his promises of building Germany back to its former glories in the times Bismarck.

The failed German republic didn;t stand a chance against the Nazi party. Hitler simply wanted to free Germany from Agreement of Versialles. But then of course things got a bit out of hand.

What I dont get is how nobody knew about the Holocaust.:S


 
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- Raider Squad -

TRP/PFC Trix/3SQD/1PLT/1COMP/1BAT/Tadath/VEA/VE
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Typex3
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  RE: Iraq then Iran
June 24, 2006 2:21:29 PM    View the profile of Typex3 
Exactly Trix is right!
 
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DarkDragoons
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"You must unlearn what you have learned. Once you start down the dark path,
Forever will it dominate your destiny, Consume you it will"

Arturus
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  RE: Iraq then Iran
June 24, 2006 2:42:55 PM    View the profile of Arturus 
Since you offered, I will throw in a few changes :P

I don't have time at the moment but I will argue that while Austria started a war, Russia actually started WWI.  I think I can make a fairly convincing case for that but that is for another day.

Secondly, I would dispute that Hitler just wanted to free Germany from Versailles.  That was certainly part of his policy but it is also clear that he had expansion in mind (I did a 25 page essay on Hitler's foreign policy if you want to read it; the paper deals with ideology, strategic considerations, and geopolitics).
 
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WAJ/2LT Corran "Arturus" Hargraves/M-SSD Atrus/VE/VEN/(=A=)(=SA=)(=*MA*=)(=JCPA=)(=SCPA=)[MC:1](x2)[SV][BRC][VC:B][LSM][LoC]


"The way of war is a way of deception. When able, feign inability; when deploying troops, appear not to be. When near, appear far; when far, appear near. Lure with bait; strike with chaos. If the enemy is full, be prepared. If strong, avoid him. If he is angry, disconcert him. If he is weak, stir him to pride. If he is relaxed, harry him; if his men are harmonious, split them. Attack where he is unprepared; appear where you are unexpected. This is victory in warfare; it cannot be divulged in advance. Victory belongs to the side that scores most in the temple calculations before battle. Most spells victory; least spells defeat; none, surer defeat. I see it in this way, and the outcome is apparent." -- Sun Tzu

"Ultimate excellence lies not in winning every battle but in defeating the enemy without ever fighting." -- Sun Tzu
DJ234
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  RE: Iraq then Iran
June 24, 2006 9:27:45 PM    View the profile of DJ234 
i believe that the treaty was called the peace treaty and it was signed in the Versaillies Palace right after WWI, limiting all the germans to small armies and the like. Hitler tried to make germany better in his own mind but took a turn for the worse and thus began WWII

Wrote a big report on the matter for Sociology

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Aegis Squad
I think war might be God's way of teaching us geography~Paul Rodriguez

If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.
- Sun Tzu
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XO/FL/PO2 DJ234/Aegis-5/Phoenix Wing/mSSD Atrus/Defensive Fleet/VEN/VE (=A=) (=SA=) [VC:B]
[This message has been edited by DJ234 (edited June 24, 2006 9:28:25 PM)]
Rogueboy
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  RE: Iraq then Iran
June 26, 2006 10:30:28 AM    View the profile of Rogueboy 
no it was called the treaty of versailles, I dont think you can officially call a treaty the peace treaty unless its universally binding (as in with those damn ufos )  also I looked up the causes of WW1 in wikipedia and it states that the immediate cause of WW1 was a group of Serb-Bosnians assassinated the heir to the Austro-Hungarian throne, the Germans sent an ultimatum which supposedly was outrageous, the Serbs who were allied with the Russians rejected the proposal knowing the Russians would come to their aid, Germany than declared war on the Serbs, Russians, and France......for some reason heres a list

July 28: Austria-Hungary declares war on Serbia.
July 29: Russia's treaties with Serbia commit it to mobilize against Austria-Hungary in Serbia's defense.
August 1; Germany declares war against Russia under the terms of the Dual Alliance with Austria-Hungary.
August 1: Germany, expecting that France will come in on the side of Russia, mobilizes against France.
August 1: France mobilizes against Germany under the terms of the Franco-Russian Alliance.
August 3: Germany declares war on France.
August 4: Germany invades Belgium. (The Schlieffen Plan for a war with Russia and France commits Germany to attacking France first, then turning against Russia when France is defeated. The roads of Belgium are needed for the German army to outflank the French.)
August 4: Britain declares war on Germany under the terms of the Treaty of London, 1839 which guarantees the neutrality of Belgium, and to support the Triple Entente.
With Britain's entry, the remainder of the British Imperial colonies and dominions are drawn in offering financial and military assistance. These were Australia, Canada, India, Newfoundland New Zealand and the Union of South Africa.
August 23: Japan, honouring the Anglo-Japanese Alliance, declares war on Germany.


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He will give them death, and they will love him for it -Gladiator

TRP/PFC_Rogueboy/1SQD/1PLT/COMP/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE [LoR]
[This message has been edited by Rogueboy (edited June 26, 2006 10:42:23 AM)]
Arturus
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  RE: Iraq then Iran
June 26, 2006 12:25:32 AM    View the profile of Arturus 
Ah there is more to it than meets the eye.  Russia, contrary to what some say, was not bound to defend Serbia.  They mobilized to assist Serbia but were not required under treaty to do so.  When Russia began mobilization, Germany sent a message to Russia asking it to stop mobilization because if Russia mobilized then Germany had to in order to defend Austria in accordance with their defensive alliance.  Russia went to partial mobilization briefly and then back to full mobilization causing Germany to mobilize.

Germany sent a message to France to ask its course of action and whether or not it would enter the war in according with the Franco-Russian agreement.  France essentially said "wait and see" leading Germany to initiate its plan for a two-front war.

Russia was the nation that acted out of the alliance system to enter the war.  It's entering the war dragged others in due to their obligations under their alliances.  To make would could be a long argument by me short on this matter, this is essentially why I argue that while Serbia-Austria were engaged in a war, Russia actually started WWI because it decided to stand up and act when it was not bound to do so by an alliance.  During a period of nationalism, Russia wanted to defend Slavs and thus acted dragging everyone in.
 
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WAJ/2LT Corran "Arturus" Hargraves/M-SSD Atrus/VE/VEN/(=A=)(=SA=)(=*MA*=)(=JCPA=)(=SCPA=)[MC:1](x2)[SV][BRC][VC:B][LSM][LoC]


"The way of war is a way of deception. When able, feign inability; when deploying troops, appear not to be. When near, appear far; when far, appear near. Lure with bait; strike with chaos. If the enemy is full, be prepared. If strong, avoid him. If he is angry, disconcert him. If he is weak, stir him to pride. If he is relaxed, harry him; if his men are harmonious, split them. Attack where he is unprepared; appear where you are unexpected. This is victory in warfare; it cannot be divulged in advance. Victory belongs to the side that scores most in the temple calculations before battle. Most spells victory; least spells defeat; none, surer defeat. I see it in this way, and the outcome is apparent." -- Sun Tzu

"Ultimate excellence lies not in winning every battle but in defeating the enemy without ever fighting." -- Sun Tzu
Atrick25
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  RE: Iraq then Iran
June 26, 2006 2:12:38 PM    View the profile of Atrick25 
Another intresting fact is that Russia and Japan never signed a peace treaty. That means that the countries are technically still at war.
 
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NazgulSquadron

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Nerds stick together! (Until Football Players storm us, because then we run like the girly men we are!)

Why does Darth Vader want cookies?
Mykill Doomslayer
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  RE: Iraq then Iran
July 2, 2006 9:49:07 PM    View the profile of Mykill Doomslayer 
Wow. Do you all really have to get so technical over the slightess things. I think the subject matter at hand was TERRORISM. And that has a lot more to do with the Religeous Repercutions of this world than it does WWI or II or Korea,Vietnam,that island,Afghanistan or Iraq and now Iran. It's a HOLY WAR out there. Doesn't anyone understand that. It's been a HOLY WAR since the crusades,and they are still pissed off that we kicked thier ass,meaning our European ancestors,a long time ago. Not only that,but doesn't anyone remember that all of the Middle East was OWNED BY ENGLAND until just after WWII.Thus it was split up by England afterwards.And,not to stick in anybodies craw,if you know what that means,but England split those lands unfairly,also giving the Jewish people Palestine and therefore making the whole Middle East fight each other.England wanted that.That is why SADDAM invaded Kuwait.He wanted more beachfront property.It's all screwwd up and if you want to know more.I'LLtell you.
 
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"my soul was cast into the vastness of space for my fear of loneliness" Chronicles of Mykill Doomslayer bk III>chpt 6
Garet Daimun
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  RE: Iraq then Iran
July 2, 2006 10:01:56 PM    View the profile of Garet Daimun 
Mykill, I'm expressing my opinion here: I think you're absolutely wrong. In morals and facts.
 
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Jester Squad
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-Jennifer Mui, Mercenaries
Rogueboy
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  RE: Iraq then Iran
July 2, 2006 10:10:05 PM    View the profile of Rogueboy 
MyKill that was terribly done with nothing to back up your statements, no dates no facts. The crusades were won by the Arabs ( I dont remember what they were called than ) with many dead on both sides, and in my personal opinion the whole reason this is a holy war is because they are jealous of our way of life unfortunately I have nothing to back that up so it holds no water to anyone but me
 
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He will give them death, and they will love him for it -Gladiator

TRP/PFC_Rogueboy/1SQD/1PLT/COMP/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE [LoR]
Atrick25
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  RE: Iraq then Iran
July 2, 2006 10:11:38 PM    View the profile of Atrick25 


That was a random collection of history, sketchy facts, and fiction.
 
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NazgulSquadron

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Nerds stick together! (Until Football Players storm us, because then we run like the girly men we are!)

Why does Darth Vader want cookies?
Mykill Doomslayer
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  RE: Iraq then Iran
July 2, 2006 10:45:21 PM    View the profile of Mykill Doomslayer 
Not really.I'll do some research I can back my statements up I know people.It's kinda like the Kennedy conspiracy.It really was a plan by England to give none of the Middle East nations any real power and you do know for a fact that ENGLAND did own all of the Middle East att the end of WWII. DONT YOU?
 
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"my soul was cast into the vastness of space for my fear of loneliness" Chronicles of Mykill Doomslayer bk III>chpt 6
Aphamos
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  RE: Iraq then Iran
July 2, 2006 10:45:35 PM    View the profile of Aphamos 
I'm not going to take the time to argue with that, Mykill.  Maybe someone else will, but I'm not going to waste my time.  I just hope that you didn't write that. 
 
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Raiders

War is cruelty. There's no use trying to reform it, the crueler it is the sooner it will be over.
--William Tecumseh Sherman--
Mykill Doomslayer
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  RE: Iraq then Iran
July 2, 2006 10:50:31 PM    View the profile of Mykill Doomslayer 
I did and it's cool.I don't mind controversy.I really do know what I'm talking about.I thought eveyone knew what I have known for years.My grandfather told me about the plan come on man
 
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"my soul was cast into the vastness of space for my fear of loneliness" Chronicles of Mykill Doomslayer bk III>chpt 6
D'har Leth
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  RE: Iraq then Iran
July 2, 2006 10:51:10 PM    View the profile of D'har Leth 
I say the reason behind all of this is because of humanity's destructive and self destructive nature.  Since the dawn of time man has killed his fellow man.  There's always a reason, but there doesn't need to be a reason, which would make things a hell of a lot worse.  If people ran out of things to fight for, people would kill eachother for absolutely no reason.  Also, America needs war, I think this is proof of how corrupt a psuedo-morality-based capitalist nation is.  If there is no war for America to fight, there aren't people on the pro war side, and people on the anti war side will protest another war that isn't America's.  And in that case, people lose that same sense of national pride, so essentially, America not in a war is bad for business.  I have some pretty serious issues with the government as you can tell, but I have no beef with the soldiers who are off fighting, regardless of what the government is fighting for, the soldiers are fighting for the ideals that once held up this country.

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Private First Class D'har Leth
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(BUY MORE URINAL CAKES)
[This message has been edited by D'har Leth (edited July 2, 2006 10:52:49 PM)]
Atrick25
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  RE: Iraq then Iran
July 2, 2006 10:54:13 PM    View the profile of Atrick25 
The English did NOT in fact own the entire Middle East, as you say. They were occupied countries during tyhe war, for their strategical importance to the Allies, and were still countries of their own after the war. Iran was occupied six months after the war, but the British didn't OWN them. If they had owned the entire Middle East after the war, do you think they would give up such valuable resources of Oil? It doesn't work that way.

And no one could own the entire Middle East. That's just wrong. (Except for the Ottoman Empire. They owned most of it )
 
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NazgulSquadron

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Nerds stick together! (Until Football Players storm us, because then we run like the girly men we are!)

Why does Darth Vader want cookies?
Mykill Doomslayer
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  RE: Iraq then Iran
July 2, 2006 10:57:47 PM    View the profile of Mykill Doomslayer 
D'HAR you are right to a certain extent.WE are the police of the world and I too am anti gov. BUT this whole  terrorrist thing is  a JIHAAD  Holy WAR
 
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"my soul was cast into the vastness of space for my fear of loneliness" Chronicles of Mykill Doomslayer bk III>chpt 6
Atrick25
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  RE: Iraq then Iran
July 2, 2006 11:04:04 PM    View the profile of Atrick25 
That may be true, but not for the reasons you stated above. That's just randomly put together stuff with some fictional history mixed in.
 
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NazgulSquadron

FM/LCRW Atrick25/Nazgul-10/Phoenix Wing/[mSSD Atrus]/1VENF]/VEN/VE (=A=)
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Nerds stick together! (Until Football Players storm us, because then we run like the girly men we are!)

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Mykill Doomslayer
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  RE: Iraq then Iran
July 2, 2006 11:04:21 PM    View the profile of Mykill Doomslayer 
Atrick I know I am new here, but why do you feel the need to DOG ME OUT EVERY CHANCE YOU GET. Yes England did occupy Oh,MY bad,all the middle East at the end of the war and parceled it out as THEY saw fit.How do you think Israel was created in 1949?DID they just go over ther and say here we are RESEARCH YOU STUFF MAN I KNOW WHAT I'MTALKING ABOUT TRUST ME.
 
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"my soul was cast into the vastness of space for my fear of loneliness" Chronicles of Mykill Doomslayer bk III>chpt 6
Atrick25
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Atrick25
 
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  RE: Iraq then Iran
July 2, 2006 11:12:42 PM    View the profile of Atrick25 
No. The UN created it in order to seperate Jews and Palestinian Arabs. This caused a war from the Arabs...
 
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NazgulSquadron

FM/LCRW Atrick25/Nazgul-10/Phoenix Wing/[mSSD Atrus]/1VENF]/VEN/VE (=A=)
~Leading Crewman Atrick25~

Nerds stick together! (Until Football Players storm us, because then we run like the girly men we are!)

Why does Darth Vader want cookies?
Mykill Doomslayer
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  RE: Iraq then Iran
July 2, 2006 11:26:36 PM    View the profile of Mykill Doomslayer 
Okay maybe you got me on a Technicallity ther,but why would they even want to introduce Jews to a land that wasn't thiers for oh so many years and where they wer not welcome and WELCOME them I.K.A. giving them a homeland in the midst of INFIDEL, is the word you wanted 
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"my soul was cast into the vastness of space for my fear of loneliness" Chronicles of Mykill Doomslayer bk III>chpt 6
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