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ComNet > Neutral Messages > Archived Lounge > America elected it's President a second time...
 
 
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Topic:  America elected it's President a second time...
Japheth
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  RE: America elected it's President a second time..
November 5, 2004 6:45:53 PM    View the profile of Japheth 
I've given up on following most of this thread, its really too much politics for me to want to handle, and when it comes down to it, I'm a scientist, not a politician.

I'll mostly just be posting retorts to people who retort myself now, or occationally something else random.

JMac: "Japheth, the constitution does not spell out the right to privacy, and the acts of the NSA and FBI in particular have for years gone against it.  As for the Supreme Court, they have moved from interpreting law to making it, and are getting way overboard in some of their decisions that they have been making."

While I agree that the Supreme Court has been going a bit overboard in the last 50 or so years with policy making rather than interpretation, that doesn't change the fact that the 9th Amendment clearly states that we all have other rights that are not explicitly stated elsewhere in the constitution or its amendments. The Supreme Court has said that one of those is the right to privacy. That is not policy making, thats interpretation.

Hmm hmm hmm, who else mentioned me somewhere....

chipmunk man: "Japheth, you say we shouldn't have even been in Iraq in the first place. Does this mean that you think Saddam should have been allowed to continue commiting genocide?"

I don't endorse genocide, of course, but it is not the place of the USA to act as a worldwide police force. The Iraqi people have the responsibility, even the duty, to overthrow their own shitty government. We shouldn't be stepping in and doing it for them, unless they ask real nice and the rest of the world agrees (they didn't, in either case).
 
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Vice Admiral Japheth Cappadocious, Krath Templar
Naval Commander in Chief, Captain of the mSSD Atrus
Headmaster of the Dark Jedi Order Academy
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NCC/VAD Japheth Cappadocious/NHC-1/Raptor 1/mSSD Atrus/DEF/VEN/VE/(=MA=)(=SCPA=)(=FCO=)[BRC][LSM][MC:1][KC:OC]
HM/KT Japheth Cappadocious/DC-3/Krath Order/Elite Griffen Sect/VEDJ/VE
Fury
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Fury
 
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  RE: America elected it's President a second time..
November 6, 2004 12:14:20 AM    View the profile of Fury 
Just for clarification and to hopefully provide a counter to, and hopefully closure for, the concept that being against this administration's actions in Iraq is being un-American somehow.

While I, as an individual, was against, and continue to be against, the concept that going into Iraq was warranted, well-planned, and the "right thing to do," I do not do this alone.

Yes, I am not a member of the armed forces.  But my brother is, many of his friends are, and many of their comrades in many units across Iraq, Afghanistan and back here in the states.

When the internet permits, I hear from at least one of a few hundred troops that check in on my personal site and thank me for saying what they, by law, cannot.  I pull about a half gig a month of bandwidth just from overseas and military IP addresses.  I know they are looking at every angle of the situation here and judge it accordingly. They point me to relevant links and a few have a good back and forth with me when we don't always agree. They point me to friends and family who feel the same as I do.

Once, we family members banded together and got on the horn, wrote letters, and incessantly emailed our legislatures, media, and other concerned citizens to get a few of those units armored Humvees when they saw many parked and unavailable to them on patrol. We were asked to by a platoon in my brother's battery.  We got them armored vehicles in time for an attack which sent one soldier home for a long rehab and therapy and three others slightly wounded.  The same action four days prior would have cost four lives.

We have also pooled together to buy the armor kits and night vision you have heard about in the media.  We help pool money for families to send packages or to help cover medical expenses for the kids left at home when the wage-earner, either mom or dad, is off earning less in combat. We helped buy a video feed so unit members can see their families once in awhile.

I'll be damned if challenging the government to respect troops and provide them the guns, armor, and gear they need before they enter a combat zone is supposed to make me feel like a traitor.  And I'll be good and goddamned if I am told I should leave the country for looking out for our troops' best interests when their leaders won't, be it in gear, combat pay, or access to medical care.

I have the support of troops in combat.  I am among those who work in their best interests; not because I think I do, but because they tell me so.

No one here was bashing the military to date.  I hope I counter the arguments made that this has been done and settle at least that matter to rest. I refuse to be browbeaten into believing I am something I am not. I'm as patriotic and American as the next person and don't even deign to tell me differently.
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PRF/HG Fury/VEA/TADATH/VE [SCP][PoC][SotE:HC][SotE:VEA][IOC]
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[This message has been edited by Fury (edited November 6, 2004 12:15:30 AM)]
Talon
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  RE: America elected it's President a second time..
November 6, 2004 9:18:10 AM    View the profile of Talon 
S'not what I was saying Fury. I was referring to the people that make no attempt to help and just want to call our country belittling names. Though we don't agree on some topics, I still respect what you do.
 
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OO/SM Sierra "Talon" Taurus/HC-3/VEHC/VE[BC][IOC][LoC][SoS][BM][CDS][MSM]
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Sniping101
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  RE: America elected it's President a second time..
November 6, 2004 3:44:08 PM    View the profile of Sniping101 
becuase i go to school instead of having a job, so theres do way in goddamn hell i can do jack, i am not high enough to say that there is problems with the way our government works? damn.
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The Comnet Hermit{Retired}
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[This message has been edited by Sniping101 (edited November 6, 2004 6:05:55 PM)]
Anubis
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  RE: America elected it's President a second time..
November 7, 2004 2:41:08 AM    View the profile of Anubis 
Alright, let's go back some

Phoenix said to me about my quote on Roman persecution influencing the Bible for both old and new testaments:

"You are R-E-T-A-R-D-E-D

Romans weren't in the Old Testament. Once again. CHeck your facts."

I was saying that this was done after they were created.  I believe that the original copies, were in fact true.  But give time, and men can change things.  There is no original Old or New Testament in existance.  I would not have stated this if I didn't think this could occur.  I know my facts, if you could get your head out of whatever hole its stuck in and see that the Bible is corrupted, maybe you could understand where I come from.

Oh and Japheth, just run away while you can.  Politics can be nasty...very nasty indeed.  Turns friends into enemies, innocent into killers, angels into devils.  Fear the almighty politics.

Sorry, had to say that.  Anyway, Snipes, there should be no reason you can't express your feelings on matters and effect them, but the harsh truth is that you won't affect anything till the government truly accepts your existence.  This is why I've been thinking of uprising.  Its not like I just want to cause chaos and fear, no, I loved the Clinton 90's (well, mostly...there were a few things I had problems with *cough* Janet Reno sending troops to take Elian Gonzales from his freedom *cough*)

The truth is that I find that we are slowly losing the freedom we enjoyed a decade ago.  This Bush is far too conservative, he is as bad if not worse than Reagan.  However, his ignorance will prove to be his downfall.  He focuses more on the outside than on the in.  If he doesn't notice this, and stop enforcing his evangelical beliefs upon America, America will kill him.  Plain and simple.
 
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TK-112
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  RE: America elected it's President a second time..
November 7, 2004 2:48:12 AM    View the profile of TK-112 
Nyeh, I voted for howard
 
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Fury
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  RE: America elected it's President a second time..
November 7, 2004 10:26:40 AM    View the profile of Fury 
I think the overall general point being made here is that you can be angry, diving into depression, or just plain baffled, but take care on how you deal with it.

I've seen cars with W'04 stickers cut off in traffic, gloating Republicans not attended to in restaurants, the same folks yelling at minorities that "their time is coming" while they walk down the street.  And this is a fairly liberal/libertarian area.  I imagine the repression flows both ways, and the anger.

Take a second and realize what this does to the country.  While I honestly don't believe for a second that George Bush cares what those of us who didn't vote for him think, let's at least try not to pick up the pitchforks and torches at our level.  Take a second, breathe a little, and realize there are a few things we can all still agree on.  Work on those.

If you want to be passionate, do it productively without tearing down the country in the process.  Work deliberately with good facts to persuade those who aren't part of the divide to your cause, because you are never converting a stalwart with facts alone.  And yelling never helps anyone.

As for this club, it isn't a conversion camp for politics.  I ask you to take the time to understand we can debate (in the places where appropriate) but keep the emotions in check and understand the limits in place.  This is a place where we come to share a common hobby.  Don't let the real world get too invested in what should be our fun.

I'm as befuddled and baffled as many of you.  I just plan to take it to the real world to effect any changes I can. 
 
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PRF/HG Fury/VEA/TADATH/VE [SCP][PoC][SotE:HC][SotE:VEA][IOC]
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Telfaris Bo Dasa
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  RE: America elected it's President a second time..
December 4, 2004 12:51:09 AM    View the profile of Telfaris Bo Dasa 
Hm, coming from Australia and all, we still see a lot of U.S. news and coverage with cable t.v.
Personally I don't have much of a say, I dont live in America, taxes, laws etc don't affect me. But really being an ally with the U.S. which really is basically the ecenomic ruler of the free world, you have ot wonder who is better for the job. Its all about your policies, how they are structured, how tey benefit your people and what the candadite is hopeing to accomplish. Felxing military muscles is one thing, U.K. and Australia has done that too, but on the home front, how you take care of your own country, and how you keep relations with other nations is very important. From what I've read I have seen Michael Moore dislikes Bush, but his problem is that he shows only certaint aspects of Bush. Im sure President Bush is a nice bloke and is doing what he beleives is right. Problem is, he is one man running the country and although he has an administration with him, people's hearts and minds have changed dramatically. I didn't agree with the invasion of Iraq and many operations the U.S. has lead. But that can't be changed, what can be changed is the direction of the country, and with Bush back, it may change, it may not. That's what politics is all about, change and no matter who you get there will always be scandal and upheavel.


 
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--Private Riack Telfaris Bo Dasa III Specialist in Infiltration and Espionage--
"The measure of a man's strength is not seen in war, but through his compassion and his wisdom to aviod a war"

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