Ignorance is running amok.
 
-----------------------
*DarkDragoons*
+ Advance Recon Commandos {ARC} +
TRP/ASL/SGT Rema/2SQD/1PLT/1COM/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE [LoR][OPE] [AM-B][AM-S][AM-P][IH][SoA][CDS]
"Only Trust your Allies as much as you can Predict your Enemies."
"Do you expect me to talk?" "No Mr. Bond, i expect you to die."
"Luke, I am your Fasha."

Wow a lot happened overnight, ok time to start replying.

Fury said:

"Actually, Canada doesn't want us."

Not true, the department of Foreign Affairs is simply saying that you won't get any special treatment.  If there was a draft in the US Americans could apply for refugee status, but since there is no crisis in the US, you have to wait in line with everyone else.  Fair is fair.

Phoenix said:

"My solutions:

Abortion - Don't be stupid and have unsafe sex....better yet...don't have sex until you want a kid.

Gay Marriage - um...just no.

AA- wrong on so many levels. How is giving a job or college admission to a minority beneficial? All it does is perpetuate minorities using their race as a crutch and an excuse."

1. Your solution to abortion is all fine in good but ultimately, it is choice that should be left to a woman and her doctor.  It is her right to choose what happens to her body.  I truly sympathize with women who have the serious potential of losing some of their rights under this administration.  As a sympathizer of the feminist movement I fear the strong evangelical forces in the administration could undermine some women's rights.

2. Your solution to same-sex marriage is to discriminate against approximately 10% of the population, I don't know about you but I see a serious problem with that.  Why shouldn't they have the same rights as all other Americans?

3. Affirmative Action helps to end the perpetual cycle of poverty that minorities face thanks to decades of discrimination which pushed them to the bottom of society.  Affirmative Action I think is important in order to help minorities break out of the perpetual cycle of poverty and move up into positions of power in society.

Liquid said:

"Now, if it is the woman's decision to get drunk, and then through her drunkeness she somehow manages to be convinced to have sex with some guy, that is her fault. She shouldn't have been drinking in the first place, unless she knew full well what all the consequences might be. Short of somebody putting a date rape drug in her drink, she should have still had the ability to say no."

Apparently the fact that the guy took advantage of the fact the woman was drunk and managed her to do things she ordinarily wouldn't isn't wrong?  It is the man's fault not the woman's fault for that.  Again, I believe abortions should be legal as it is a decision that should be left to a woman and her doctor.  It is a woman's body and it is her right to choose whether or not to have an abortion.  As a religious person I think it shouldn't be used as a form of bithcontrol but rather in situtions such as rape, incest, the health of the mother, etc.  But ultimately, it is a woman's choice, not our choice, and we should respect that.  We have no right to take this right away from women, we have no right to say what she can and can't do with her own body.  It is her body, not ours.

Liquid said:

"I do feel safer because of the Patriot Act, only because of the fact that with it, the real criminals can have stuff found out about them easier. I'm not trying to say that the government isn't going to misconstrue the law someday, but I sure hope not."

But you are willing to risk it anyhow?  Does the government really have the right to know so much about your personal life?  Are you going to guarantee it that you will never be falsely accused based upon this evidence?  You obviously are quite trusting that this evidence might not accidentally be used as information to convict you of a crime you didn't commit.


Talon said:

"I'm only going to make one point on this topic. I've heard so many people say they're ashamed to live in the US now and that they want to leave. Guess what, I'm putting my life on the line so you can live in peace. You have no clue what kind of danger is out there in the water. There are a lot of people that would kick our asses if given the chance. If you don't like my country so much, get the fuck out of it. I hope I'm asleep on watch when the bombs hit your houses you ungreatful sons of bitches."

Since when is it a crime to be ashamed of your country.  People have a right to be disgusted and want better.  They also have the right to leave the US if they want.  Since when is being ashamed of your country being ungrateful to the military?  People have yet to mention the military other than they think the US shouldn't be in Iraq.

Snipes said:

"however the point of the US is for the people to be able to bitch and moan about how shitty the country is and for them to maybe decide to change something. thats the entire point, not for us to settle, but to always strive for better"

There is so much truth in that, well said!

Merrick said:

"Talon makes an excellent point. It's like blaming the soldiers for getting sent to Iraq against the beliefs of more than half of the country. It's a great dishonour to them to protest their being sent there when it's out of their hands and their orders prevent them doing anything about it."

I disagree completely.  People have a right to protest wars, especially illegal and unnecessary ones like Iraq.  That isn't disrespectful to the troops, I'd argue it is supporting them by trying to get them back home and out of danger.  Freedom of dissent should never be crushed because the troops are at war, if they at war for illegitimate reasons then its the duty of the public to protest to bring them home.  People should speak out and make their demands heard, that's the point of democracy.  Besides, ever think that they are speaking for the troops who are in Iraq?  The troops can't speak out but the public at home can, the citizens can demand better and have their voices heard and I say more power to them!

Merrick said:

" The US has seen itself as owning the world for longer than Bush has ever been alive, and that isn't something that is going to change any time soon."

Damn straight.

Raziel said:

"Now i have to place my vote for the UK party who is least likely to follow your ar****** of a leader around."

Just out of curiosity is that the Liberal-Democrats?

Lukas Yuy said:

"we have the best disciplined/trained men and women"

No offence but there are other militaries that are more disciplined.  The American military is very very well trained but some nations drill discipline much much more.

Lukas Yuy said:

"If the draft is reinstated, I'd sure as hell go and serve with him in Iraq if I got the chance, or anywhere for that matter"

Bush will be glad to know that there are some people still willing to die for his mistake.  Why don't you tell that to troops in Iraq who are scared out of their wits and don't want to be there and are angry that they were sent there because of lies.  I'm not saying all think this way but I'm damn sure some do.

Lukas Yuy said:

"Just because you don't like our country/president Snipes, doesn't mean you have to go and shoot it down."

That is his right.  If you continue to read that paragraph he stated that in the US you have the right to demand better, he is stating that he doesn't like the way the country is and wants better.  It's called freedom of speech and participation in the democratic process.

Lukas Yuy:

"We all make mistakes and we can learn from them. I am sure President Bush has made his mistakes, but in doing that I think he may have learned from them to make him a better person."

Well I guess that fact that his mistake has caused the deaths of 1,100 soldiers as long as he learns from it and becomes a better person.

Lukas Yuy:

"If you would like me to give you examples, then ask me and I will prove my point Afyon."

By all means please do.

Stormie said:

"I don't understand why gays and lesbians should not marry."

Ya I don't understand that one either.

Virius said:

"help Bush make this country a nicer to live in"

Best way to do that is to replace Bush, unfortunately it'll be another 4 years to do that.

JMac said:

"Wouldn't have been able to sleep anyway, I was too terrified that Kerry would be my Commander in Chief.  That would have been a situation too horrible for words."

How so?

JMac said:

"Those organizations are racist in and of themselves, and I am appaled that they have the legitamacy that they have.  What would happen if there was a Congressional White Caucus? Or for that matter, White Entertainment TV "

There is, it's called the KKK.  Unlike the KKK, the NAACP doesn't lynch and kill caucasians, nor does it spread racist propaganda, advocate the "purification" of America, or any of that other shit the KKK spews out.

Is it just me or are most channels White Entertainment TV, only not called by that specific name.  Why is there a problem with a channel that shows programs about African American history and entertainment for African Americans?  They don't have the right to watch these programs?  Not their fault that the main networks won't show these programs.


JMac said:

"US Army, for instance, has 3 primary purposes, not 1. 
1.  Combat Operations
2.  Peacekeeping
3.  Humanitarian Aid

Amazingly, we are fulfilling all three in Iraq.  Go figure."

1. One of the primary purposes of the US army is peacekeeping?  This is news to me.

2. Peacekeeping occurs once there is actually peace, until then you are either engaged in combat operations or peacemaking.

JMac said:

"Snipes, all I have to say is, better men then you could ever hope to be have died to give you the right to say that."

He isn't a good man for criticizing his country and demanding better?  There is more than one way to ensure your rights, the military isn't the only option.

Darkhawk said"

"sometime soon this nation will get swept up in a huge Civil Rights movement again, and I'm all for it"

How about Barack Obama for President?  I think that would be a fantastic idea.

Shazam said:

"Our decision to go into Iraq is truly moral...  That's a fact, we are doing the 'right' thing.  Doesn't matter about 'the evils' or that Saddam Hussein needed to be 'taken out'.  We are attempting to restore those people to peace, to govern themselves...  Thinking otherwise is almost selfish."

Seems to me I recall terrorism and WMD's as reasons the administration sited before the war.  Once they found out they were wrong the "moral" war aspect came into it.

Shazam said:

"I hope, for the sake of our souls that some one get rid of 'Roe v Wade'"

Apparently giving the women the right to choose what happens to their body means our souls are doomed?

JMac said:

"We are in the middle of an economic upswing, rebuilding the middle east (Afganistan had a better voter turnout then we did), so far as I'm concerned, things are going great.  I've never been happier, well, girlfriend breaking up with me aside, I've never been happier.  Life is going great."

Tell that to the troops and the families of those who have been killed, maimed, and crippled in Iraq.  See how happy they are, how great their life is going.  Also, the US economy is still showing weakness and many economists are forcasting another recession.

JMac said:

"Why would we have a huge Civil Rights movement?  Civil Rights are still fine, there is no need for a movement."

Because African-American voters continually get disenfranchised on election day and are still being discriminated against.  Just because everything is peachy for you doesn't mean that exists for everyone, expand your scope of vision to see what goes on outside your personal life.



 
-----------------------
*DarkDragoons*
+ Advance Recon Commandos {ARC} +
SL/SFC_Afyon/2SQD/2PLT/1COM/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE/[LoR][IH][CoH(2)][SoA]
"No I expect to leave you on some beach with no name at all while I say away on my ship...and then I'll shout the name back to you...saavy?"

so staying and voicing your demands for something better isnt an option?

People have a right to despise and hate their country, they also have the right to demand better.  Telling them to get out simply eliminates dissenting opinions and the vocal demands for something better.  That is not the way to improve a country.
 
-----------------------
*DarkDragoons*
+ Advance Recon Commandos {ARC} +
SL/SFC_Afyon/2SQD/2PLT/1COM/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE/[LoR][IH][CoH(2)][SoA]
"No I expect to leave you on some beach with no name at all while I say away on my ship...and then I'll shout the name back to you...saavy?"

this topics getting real mean real fast, all i was saying is i dont like the way the country is now, however as the american people we have a place, you could even say an obligation, to make things better, make the government more effective and more serving to the peoples will, the idea of a country isnt a bunch of people slaveing away for the needs of thier government, its one government slaving away for its people.
 
-----------------------
The Comnet Hermit{Retired}
-Raider Squad-
TRP/SSG Sniping101/CrazySQD/1PLT/1COM/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE [LoR][IH][BoA]

"As long as their is Space, Im going to stare off into it"-Garfield

Well Afyon, here is one example that most of the people won't know, including you.

Well in the debates, President Bush and John Kerry may have talked about the weapons of mass destruction that were suppose to be in Iraq but were never found by what I have heard. Many people believe that they were never there to begin with.

The thing is, many people don't know or don't want to believe that the weapons have been moved to Lybia, Syria(sp?), and that Russia is helping them do that. Now believe this if you want to or don't want to, I am just stating something that many people don't know.
 
-----------------------
Name: Lukas Yuy
Rank: Lance Corporal
AS-4/TRP/LCPL Lukas Yuy/3SQD/1PLT/1COM/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE/Tadath
Occupation: Sniper/Special Forces

what hes saying, and i'm not saying i agree or dissagree, is that the people during roman times may have changed even the OT, becuase of how his logic is flawed; heres something for you to suck on, if they wanted to attract more fallowers by changing things they would have made them more similiar to local customes and such, sheesh,
 
-----------------------
The Comnet Hermit{Retired}
-Raider Squad-
TRP/SSG Sniping101/CrazySQD/1PLT/1COM/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE [LoR][IH][BoA]

"As long as their is Space, Im going to stare off into it"-Garfield

Lukas_Yuy said, "The thing is, many people don't know or don't want to believe that the weapons have been moved to Lybia, Syria(sp?), and that Russia is helping them do that. Now believe this if you want to or don't want to, I am just stating something that many people don't know."

Now, I don't know anything about that, I've not heard either way, but consider the following:

That is propaganda being fed to the public to justify attacking another nation or nations.

I have NO IDEA if the above statement is true or not, but can you say that there is no chance at all of it being true? Is there no way that it is not simply justification for a)not finding these weapons and b)shifting the target to somewhere else?
 
-----------------------
Vice Admiral Japheth Cappadocious, Krath Templar
Naval Commander in Chief, Captain of the mSSD Atrus
Headmaster of the Dark Jedi Order Academy
-----------------------
NCC/VAD Japheth Cappadocious/NHC-1/Raptor 1/mSSD Atrus/DEF/VEN/VE/(=MA=)(=SCPA=)(=FCO=)[BRC][LSM][MC:1][KC:OC]
HM/KT Japheth Cappadocious/DC-3/Krath Order/Elite Griffen Sect/VEDJ/VE

Well I believe the same thing that they were moved. I also think though that they have been moved to Iran.

And with the 1,100 soldiers killed, well listen to this quote.

"You can't control which men are killed and who survive."--Delta Force Soldier, Black Hawk Down

Like the quote says, you can't control who lives or dies. In war or any military action no one can control that and people will get killed. The world isn't safe and there are dangers everywhere so I think that people should stop talking about how many soldiers died they know that if they are in the military that there is a chance of that.
 
-----------------------
Senior Sergeant
Frank "Virius" Carter
Combat Slicer
TRP-Raider Squad-
TRP/SSG Virius/3SQD/1PLT/COMP/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE [LoR] [ES1] [WM]
TRN/UNI Virius/Training 1-3/VEDJ/VE
"To start press the any key, *Pause* where is the any key?"--Anonymous

Yes, its stupid to get drunk.
Yes, its stupid to have unprotected sex.
Yes, an unborn child is killed if abortion carries through.

But that's not the issue Chippy

The issue here is that the government would have the power to tell women what to do with their bodies.
Women would have no say if they suddenly fell pregnant.
That is a violation of a personal freedom

 
-----------------------
*DarkDragoons*
-=silly caucasian girl likes to play with samurai swords=-
-=pretty...what do we blow up first?=-
TRP/CPL kaMi/2SQD/1PLT/1COM/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE [LoR] [CoR] [IG]

Do you weed your garden? Most people do? WHAT ABOUT THE WEEDS' RIGHTS?! Surely as living things they have a right to life too!

 
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Ramon Stonefish

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I'm sorry, but babies only think after a point, which is why there is a cut-off point in abortion. Up to that point they are only the same as plants. So, your counter-point?
 
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Ramon Stonefish

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Exactly. Don't want the kid? Fine. It's called adoption.
 
-----------------------
FL/PO2 Chipmunk Man/Kaph 3-1/Phoenix/mSSD Atrus/DEF/VEN/VE/(=A=)[LoC][MC:1]

Explorer Post 1863 photos - - Explorer Post 1863 Main Site - - Co. D 62nd PA Volunteer Infantry

Co. E 30th PA Volunteer Infantry - - James Buchanan's Wheatland

"And I wouldn't trade ol' Leroy or my Chevrolet
For your Escalade or your freak parade,
I'm the only John Wayne left in this town!" -Big & Rich

Wow a ton to respond to, this thread certainly is stimulating some active conversation and debate.

Chipmunk said:

"Also, you can't believe everything you hear in the media, especially when almost all the networks are controlled by raging librals."

Wow if you consider American media liberal what does the BBC and CBC constitute as?  CNN is not a liberal station, CNN international is, not domestic CNN.  I watch the US version of CNN sometimes for a laugh, it is a centre-right station, it is definitely not a liberal station.

Chipmunk said:

" my oppinion, networks like CNN are stuffed full of propoganda."

Yep, for the republicans.

Chipmunk said:

"FACT that Bush had more votes than Gore in Florida."

FACT, Al Gore won the popular vote, any other democracy would declare him the winner, I don't understand how people can support a system where the winner of the popular vote doesn't win the election.  In all honesty the electoral college is an archaic system originally designed because the upper elites didn't trust the peasent to vote.  Maybe its time America moves to an election system where the person with the most votes wins.  I don't know about you but that sounds more democratic to me.

Chipmunk said:

"So, since when was there such a thing as an "international government?""

News flash, there is international law.  Read the UN charter and the agreements and treaties the US has signed.  When you violate those treaties, charters, and agreements you violate international law.

Chipmunk said:

"I do know there is some bunch of lazy morons sitting in New York City who don't even have the balls to back up their own resolutions. Was it resolution 1441 that told Saddam to disarm? I don't remember exactly. I do recall hearing that it told Saddam to disarm or he would be forced to. I also recall Saddam giving the middle finger to the UN."

Fact: It was resolution 1441
Fact: It said serious consequences if he failed to comply
Fact: In order to legally launch a war the United States needed Chapter 7 authorization from the UN Security Council
Fact: The US never brought the necessary Chapter 7 resolution to a vote in the Security Council
Fact: The US invasion was illegal as it violated Chapter 7, Article 51 of the UN Charter

Article 51
Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of self-defence shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security.

The US did not act in immediate self-defence against an armed attack.  Therefore without proper Chapter 7 authorization the US has no right to invade Iraq.

Fact: The US gave the UN the middle finger so what's your point?

Chipmunk said:

"Does this mean that you think Saddam should have been allowed to continue commiting genocide?"

Absolutely not.  However,

1. the US cited terrorist links and WMDs as the primary reasons to go into Iraq.

2. If the US was so concerned about what Saddam Hussein was doing to his people why did the US support him for so long?

3. If the US wanted to invade Iraq on humantarian grounds they should have drafted the appropriate Chapter 7 resolution and invoked the Genocide Convention.  As it stood there were already sanctions so the next step in the UN process would be a Chapter 7 resolution authorizing force to replace the Chapter 7 resolution authorizing sanctions.  Again, the US did not bring such a resolution to a vote.  Also, had the US invoked the Genocide Convention nations are obligated under that convention to act.  Two problems, first, the genocide happened over a decade ago and two, it wasn't happening now.  Had the US invoked the Genocide Convention when Saddam Hussein used WMD's against the Kurds and slaughted the Shi'ite uprising, Saddam Hussein wouldn't have been in power when Bush came into office.

Chipmunk said:

"What do you call the sarin gas used against US troops in the spring? What do you call the chemical artillary shells found in one of Saddams arsenal, still with the residues of the chem weapons inside? What do you call the mobile trailors captured, the ones that had been used to develop bio weapons and still had the residues of such still inside? The damn libral media is lying to you when it says there were no WMD's. It is a fact that they existed and that Saddam had them. Hell, he used them against his own people!"

Yes he did have them, the US helped give him technology and ingredients to make them and helped cover up his use of them in the war against Iran.  But yes he did have them at some point.  The weapons inspectors did not find anything while they were inspecting and had the US not jumped the gun and launched an illegal war, they would have been able to complete their job and report that, there are no weapons.  Hans Blix said there were serious doubts but since he couldn't finish his job, he couldn't 100% that there were no stockpiles of weapons.

One artillery shell with sarin gas was exploded as US troops passed by.  This was long after the invasion of Iraq and you can't prove that wasn't smuggled in from Syria, Iran, or any other country from which terrorists have now poured into Iraq's porous borders.

The US found a dozen rusty artillery shells that once had chemicals in them.  That really isn't a stockpile of weapons, and since they are empty, the non-existent chemicals couldn't exactly hurt anyone.

The 2 mobile "weapons labs" have been relatively overrated.  They were empty and while could be put to use, they didn't have the biological agents to make biological weapons.  It is not a big or important find.

Let's get something straight, the US went in on the basis that,

1. Saddam Hussein had vast stockpiles of anthrax, sarin nerve gas, vx, etc
2. Saddam Hussein was massing chemical and biological weapons
3. Saddam Hussein might have re-constituted his nuclear weapons program
4. There were vast quantities of chemicals and chemical weapons

Has the US found stockpiles of weapons?  NO!  Has the US found active weapons programs?  NO!  Has the US found any form of re-constituted nuclear weapons program?  NO!  Did Saddam Hussein have vast stockpiles of anthrax, vx, sarin, and other chemicals and biological weapons?  NO!  You don't have an argument here, the "stockpiles" of weapons and weapons programs DON'T EXIST.

So when the "damn liberal media" tells you facts that you don't like they are lying?

Chipmunk said:

"Oh, and murdering an unborn child just because the mother was too stupid to make her boyfriend wear a condom is not a personal freedom, it's the murder of an unborn child. So the woman got drunk. So what? Then she's stupid for getting drunk. That's one reason why I don't drink. If two people are too stupid to use birth control, then just put the kid up for adoption."

What about rape and date rape?  What if the mother might die giving birth to the child?  Why is it the woman's fault and not the man's for taking advantage of the woman while she is drunk?  It is the woman's fault for getting drunk but if a man takes advantage of her by getting her to do things she wouldn't do if sober, that is 100% the man's fault.

Kami said:

"The issue here is that the government would have the power to tell women what to do with their bodies.
Women would have no say if they suddenly fell pregnant.
That is a violation of a personal freedom"

Exactly!

Virius said:

"Also you don't have to kill the child, there are a lot of people looking to adopt a child because they can't have one. I think that if they have the child then at least give it a chance to experience life."

So if a woman is raped she should be forced to deliver that child.  She should have to bear that man's child and endure the emotional hardships of giving birth to that child while trying to recover from the effects of being rape?  How can you even think of making a woman go through that?  Think how the woman would feel instead of taking a man's perspective.  IT IS NOT A MAN'S ISSUE!

Chipmunk said:

"Exactly. Don't want the kid? Fine. It's called adoption."

Refer to what I just said to Virius.  Plus, it is a decision left to a woman and her doctor.  The government has no right to tell a woman what she can do with her body.

JMac said:

"It is taking a life, and laws are hypocritical regarding that."

Sounds like you are describing the death penalty, I trust you feel the same way about that?
 
-----------------------
*DarkDragoons*
+ Advance Recon Commandos {ARC} +
SL/SFC_Afyon/2SQD/2PLT/1COM/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE/[LoR][IH][CoH(2)][SoA]
"No I expect to leave you on some beach with no name at all while I say away on my ship...and then I'll shout the name back to you...saavy?"

Afyon said of CNN " it is a centre-right station, it is definitely not a liberal station".

Tell me, honestly, were you able to type that with a straight face.  You want to say that Fox News is Right biased, fine, they are.  But CNN?  Please, please tell me you are joking.  Please?

Afyon said "Al Gore won the popular vote, any other democracy would declare him the winner". 

Not quite sure what that has to do with anything, given how we aren't a Democracy, we are a Republic.

Afyon said "without proper Chapter 7 authorization the US has no right to invade Iraq".

I will never, ever, put the security of my country subordinate to the will of the world.  We have every right to do what we think is necessary to keep ourselves safe, and to do what we think is right.

Afyon said "the US cited terrorist links and WMDs as the primary reasons to go into Iraq".

Absolutely correct.  THere were a great many well documented terror links between Iraq and different organizations.  I would be more then happy to list some if you want.

Afyon said "If the US wanted to invade Iraq on humantarian grounds they should have drafted the appropriate Chapter 7 resolution and invoked the Genocide Convention."

That would not have worked.  There is no way that France, Germany, and Russia would have gone along with it, because then it would have been found that they had been selling Saddam weapons that UN sactions said he couldn't have.

Afyon said "Hans Blix said there were serious doubts but since he couldn't finish his job, he couldn't 100% that there were no stockpiles of weapons."

Blix had no hope of finding anything.  His team was not large enough to police that big an area, Saddam could have easily given him the run-around.  It is incredibly easy to hide things when you are dealing with that much room.

Afyon said "It is the woman's fault for getting drunk but if a man takes advantage of her by getting her to do things she wouldn't do if sober, that is 100% the man's fault."

I couldn't disagree more.  It is both of their responsibilities, that is a risk that you take when you drink large quantities of a mind-altering drug.  Not that I am excusing the man by any mean, to me, rape is as filthy as it gets, and I am in favor of castration of rapists, but that is just me.

Afyon said regarding my comments on abortion "Sounds like you are describing the death penalty, I trust you feel the same way about that?"

Not quite.  I draw a distinction between innocent life and non-innocent.  If you commit a crime heinous enough to warrant the death penalty, I'm all for it.  If you put a high-velocity round into the brain-case of a terroriest, I'm all for that.  My issue is in the taking of an innocent life.

Afyon said "If the US didn't launch an illegal war based on illegitimate reasons, those men would be alive today.  You can control who lives in dies to an extend, the best way is not to ask them to go off and die for a mistake."

There is such a thing as dying for what is right.  I would be more then happy to die for what is right, that is why I took the oath.  Those soldiers took the same oath.  It is right that we should be there, it is right what we are doing.  You seem to be all for women's rights, Afyon, what do you say to the women who were quite literally under the Hussien family as they were being raped?

Japheth, the constitution does not spell out the right to privacy, and the acts of the NSA and FBI in particular have for years gone against it.  As for the Supreme Court, they have moved from interpreting law to making it, and are getting way overboard in some of their decisions that they have been making.


 
 
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LCM_ JMac/(=A=)(=SA=)(=MA)(=FOCE=)(MC1)(VC)

Viva el gato mojado!!!!

In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey.
~Beck

Yeah, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I am the meanest (*&^%$(*&%^( ever to walk the jungle.
~Vietnam Creedo

JMac: You say you dont approve of killing innocent people. Then i guess you against the War in Iraq and infact all wars. Innocent Civilians die all the time in wars. And i guess you want to go into Africa and stop the genocide that is occuring there.

The fact is people it is the womans right to choose what she wants to do with her child. It is not the place of a white, rich, politician in washington to decide what this woman can do with her body. The child is part of her from the moment it is concieved. The choice to abort her baby is not an easy thing. Its not like they say "ohh, i think today ill abort my child." No, when they first discover they are pregnant, they have an emotional and physical attachment to that child. Their choice to abort it is a difficult one and does not come lightly. I think the grief they have to go through and live with the rest of their lives is enough "punishment" for as some would like to say "their stupidity". This is a free nation. We have the right to choose what we want to do with our body.

And to whoever said that if there was a civil war that whoever would lose, i just want to point out a section of the Declaration of Independence....Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the consent of the governed, -- That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

We are supposed to rebel against our government, thats how we keep it in check. Any of you pay attention in history class and remember all the rebellions that occurred when our country was just established? This country has forgot what we fought against to gain independence. We wanted to be free from England because they enforcing laws that were unjust and taking away our liberty. So if you really want to defend the constitution and the ideals our county was founded on, you would join the rebellion.
 
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*DarkDragoons*
+ Advance Recon Commandos {ARC} +
TRP/ASL/SGT Rema/2SQD/1PLT/1COM/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE [LoR][OPE] [AM-B][AM-S][AM-P][IH][SoA][CDS]
"Only Trust your Allies as much as you can Predict your Enemies."
"Do you expect me to talk?" "No Mr. Bond, i expect you to die."
"Luke, I am your Fasha."