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Topic:  America elected it's President a second time...
Stormie
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  America elected his Hitler a second time...
November 3, 2004 10:07:13 AM    View the profile of Stormie 
Hey guys,
I hope they don't delete this Topic just because of its Subject.
I just heart Bush won the elections and the first thing I thought was "Those guys in the VE seemed quite nice and intelligent, once...they are mostly citizens of the US, they would never vote that guy AGAIN!".

Well, the poll on the VE startsite showed me I was wrong.

I read "Stupid white men" and lots of other books, saw "Fahrenheit 9/11" and watched CNN everyday - and I could realy not believe ANYONE vote this guy again.

Now I am interested in your reasons for voting him. I just want to understand it.
And don't tell me, Karry is bad, too. That's no reason for voting such a man like George W. Bush.


So please, disucss that with your
old,
old,
german


STORMIE





 
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Rema
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  RE: America elected his Hitler a second time...
November 3, 2004 10:21:24 AM    View the profile of Rema 
I was all for Kerry. Im interested to hear the reasons too.
 
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Virius
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  RE: America elected his Hitler a second time...
November 3, 2004 12:01:17 AM    View the profile of Virius 
Thats all I vote I dont want any type of Democrat in office unless there is a very good reason he should be in there.

No reason but I just don't agree with Liberal decisions
 
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Virius
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  RE: America elected his Hitler a second time...
November 3, 2004 12:03:10 AM    View the profile of Virius 
And I also like Bush and not Kerry.
 
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Afyon
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  RE: America elected his Hitler a second time...
November 3, 2004 12:35:23 AM    View the profile of Afyon 
Stormie I am just as mystified as you.  Even if you examine much less controversial partisan material, in other words not stuff spouted out by Michael Moore, it is shocking to see how the administration works, their corruption, their ties to the oil and defence industries, they ties and support for Saudi Arabia, the bible studies that go on in cabinet meetings, etc.  On top of that, Bush's foreign and domestic policies have been some of the most dangerous, divisive, and destructive that I've seen in my life time.  With everything the adminstration has done, whether it be giving tax breaks to the rich, lying about and invading Iraq, screwing up the campaigns in both Iraq and Afghanistan, dividing the world, undermining international institutions, severing old alliances, damaged the domestic economy, cracked down on civil liberties, imposed a evangelical christian view and tried to policy based on these views, etc.

I really can't understand how anyone can vote for this administration, it completely boggles my mind.  What I also found absolutely unbelieveble is that "moral values" were widely stated to be the most important issue in the election.  With the US fighting a war in two places, the economy is facing another recession, and americans' civil liberties have been slashed and are in jeopardy, some how "moral values" are the most important factor in the election?  WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU!
 
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Japheth
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  RE: America elected his Hitler a second time...
November 3, 2004 12:47:41 AM    View the profile of Japheth 
Blaming voters in the VE is not the answer to the current situation. Some of us CANNOT make a difference.

I live in the state of Oklahoma, this state has not gone Democrat since 1964. I voted for Kerry, I don't mind saying, because I don't want to see the US turn into Empire Fortress America (henceforth EFA). However, my one measly vote, as well as the votes of my ENTIRE FAMILY and ALL OF MY FRIENDS are merely cast into the void compared with the sheer number of people in this state that vote Republican in each and every election.

The key: without a popular vote for the office of the President of the United States of America the voices of many citizens will simply never be heard. The electoral college is the source of most of the problems with the voting system in the USA. It was a good and even essential tool for the vote 100 years ago. Today, however, it is a total waste and merely interfears with the process.

Unfortunately, even with a popular vote, it seems Bush would be winning the current election. This probably never would have happened in the event of a popular vote 4 years ago, in which case Gore would've been president all this time.

Another large problem is that a lot of completely uninformed people go to the polls and vote. The key problem I see with this is that they go there and vote for our current president simply because he's already in office, or they hear a few things they may like about his policy. I can't imagine that they hear anything about his domestic and forign policies... A retarded monkey at a typewriter could come up with better policies in a day or two. Oh well.

In short, don't blame American voters in the VE. Some of us tried to change things. As I said to some of my friends, I want a tshirt that says something like this:

front: "I voted..."
back: "...as if it fucking mattered."

it'd probably have an outline of the state of Oklahoma on it somewhere too, probably on the back. It'd be red. Ha. I r so cl3v4r.
 
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Jack Nebulax
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  RE: America elected his Hitler a second time...
November 3, 2004 2:32:43 PM    View the profile of Jack Nebulax 
Man, I really wanted Kerry to win!!
 
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Cosmic
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  RE: America elected his Hitler a second time...
November 3, 2004 2:45:16 PM    View the profile of Cosmic 
First off, I'd like to say that basing your decision of off Fahrenheit 9/11 is faulty reasoning. The speeches that Bush made in that movie was edited to make him look like he was saying somethign that he wasn't. They cut some parts, and added others, etc. I would have watched that movie, but after finding that out, I just saw it as complete garbage, and didn't bother.

Second, yeah, this is my first time voting, and I voted for Bush. Why? Because Kerry is way to liberal for me. With Bush, I know where he stands. Watching the debates, you know where he stands. Kerry was all over the place.

I'm not saying that I'm happy with Bush's administration. I believe that going to Iraq was completely in the wrong. I believe Bush to be a good man, just not someone who should be in the Oval Office, and I definately didn't want to see Kerry in that position.

That's my reasoning, and go ahead and criticize this because this is the last time I'm looking at this topic.
 
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chipmunk man
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  RE: America elected his Hitler a second time...
November 3, 2004 3:03:58 PM    View the profile of chipmunk man 
Okay, I'm seriously pissed. I just spent 45 minutes typing a long, detailed response on exactly why I voted Bush. Then it logged me out of the system and I lost everything. Maybe later I'll feel like retyping it.

Basically, I felt that Kerry is a hypocrite on a power trip, compared to Bush having bad advisors. Political ideology was a factor, I am a die-hard conservative and think that Kerry's libralism goes completely against the reasons why this nation was founded in the first place. I also think that Kerry is not man enough to stand up to terrorism. Bush has proven himself to be a strong leader on multiple occasions. So what if he has trouble speaking? So did Albert Einstien.
 
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Darkhawk
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  RE: America elected his Hitler a second time...
November 3, 2004 3:10:32 PM    View the profile of Darkhawk 
I voted for Kerry.
I cannot understand why any sane, intelligent person would have voted for Bush.
Stormie, I am ashamed to live in this country, and am only pacified slightly by the fact that I can walk around my college campus today and see the anger in everyone's faces.
I still don't understand how this happened. It's like a bad dream.

P.S. I'm probably moving to Toronto next fall after I graduate.

 
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chipmunk man
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  RE: America elected his Hitler a second time...
November 3, 2004 3:30:02 PM    View the profile of chipmunk man 
"I cannot understand why any sane, intelligent person would have voted for Bush." How could an intelligent person vote for Kerry? He wants to ban guns, but goes hunting. He claims he'll supply the troops, but won't buy body armour. He claims we went into Iraw alone, but we had a coalition of 30 countries! He wants to start talks with North Korea, but they're already going on. He wants to restore relations with our allies, but gives them a metophorical "screw you" when he says that the support from our 30 nation coalition doesn't matter. He was a hypocrite on a power trip who said whatever he thought would get him votes.

Also, I heard on talk radio yesterday that there was an international poll on who the world wanted to win. Iraq went to Bush in a landslide.

I want to note that I would personally prefer to not discuss this subject, though I feel obligated to respond. I'm sick of people hating each other because of the election, and suspect that that was even a factor in my ex-girlfriend's decision to dump me. I had hoped that this madness would end with the election itself.
 
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Explorer Post 1863 photos - - Explorer Post 1863 Main Site - - Co. D 62nd PA Volunteer Infantry

Co. E 30th PA Volunteer Infantry - - James Buchanan's Wheatland

"And I wouldn't trade ol' Leroy or my Chevrolet
For your Escalade or your freak parade,
I'm the only John Wayne left in this town!" -Big & Rich
[This message has been edited by chipmunk man (edited November 3, 2004 3:36:15 PM)]
Japheth
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  RE: America elected his Hitler a second time...
November 3, 2004 3:37:10 PM    View the profile of Japheth 
International polls don't matter at all. They don't live here.

I'm thinking of immigrating when I graduate, any suggestions? How is the computer science job market in other major English speaking countries? The UK? Australia? Canada? Once Patriot 2 hits we're not going to be able to get him out of office. It'll be like the frickin' Emperor all over again.

"I will lay this power down once the security of this nation is assured."

*sigh*
 
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chipmunk man
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  RE: America elected his Hitler a second time...
November 3, 2004 3:41:14 PM    View the profile of chipmunk man 
If any president tried that, the military would turn against him. I know that I would, and with luck I myself will by an infantry luietenant in four years. The military is not there to serve the wishes of the president, it's there to defend the freedom of our nation.
 
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Explorer Post 1863 photos - - Explorer Post 1863 Main Site - - Co. D 62nd PA Volunteer Infantry

Co. E 30th PA Volunteer Infantry - - James Buchanan's Wheatland

"And I wouldn't trade ol' Leroy or my Chevrolet
For your Escalade or your freak parade,
I'm the only John Wayne left in this town!" -Big & Rich
Anubis
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  RE: America elected his Hitler a second time...
November 3, 2004 3:41:25 PM    View the profile of Anubis 
Kerry voted to get rid of the tax cuts Bush put in place in order to pay for body armor fool.  That was the whole vote for it before voting against it.  He didn't get it through, and now we face the worst situation we've faced in a long time.

If Bush just won the election that would be fine, but there are several factors that put our safety and freedom in danger.  Bush now has no reason to hold back his ultra-conservative views, seeing as he can't get re-elected.  The Republicans have a majority in the Senate, able to help him get those views passed (Thank God not 60 senators though) and they also have a majority in the house.

Now we shall see our freedoms slowly dwindle away.  If you aren't white, straight, male, and rich, then you're in trouble. Now what I'm about to say may make you think I'm a traitor, but I don't care.  Should it come down to the fact that a gay marriage amendment or anything radical like that gets past Congress, I would support and if necessary lead an uprising against the President of the United States.

And it isn't the fault of the American people entirely.  Bush's fear campaign appears to have worked.  The people of America are capable of being a caring liberal people, but they see Bush as a strong leader.  And they may be right, but now they will all pay for their foolishness.

So long porno, condoms, pre-marital sex and everything else that the Evangelicals are against. 
 
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chipmunk man
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  RE: America elected his Hitler a second time...
November 3, 2004 3:50:45 PM    View the profile of chipmunk man 
Anubis, you obviously know nothing about conservatism. I work manual labor landscaping in the summers. All the guys I work with are little men, blue collars who barely scrape by. And they are all die-hard republicans. Toss that stereotype of republicans out the window.

Conservatives do not want to strip freedoms. I'm a die-hard conservative myself. The main point of conservative ideology is limiting government involvement in order to preserve freedom. If anything, Kerry would have taken away freedoms. Gun ownership in particular comes to mind. You probably hate guns as an evil. If I'm wrong about how you feel, I appologize. But remember this: it's not the gun, it's the person using using the gun. If someone doesn't have a gun, they can find another way. How do you think people are murdered in prison? Sharpened pencils and toothbrushes. Does that mean toothbrushes are evil because they can be used to kill people? You can choke to death on food. Let's outlaw food! A particular bumper sticker comes to mind: "Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns." Also is "Guns cause crime like flies cause garbage."

Also, violence is not the way to solve a law you don't like. Our system is designed specifically to allow dissastisfied citizens to challenge a law. If you do try violence, know that I will be one of millions saddling up to stop you. I believe in our system and constitution, and am willing to give my life to preserve it for my kids.

[Edit]:I just saw on CNN that 11 states have passed state constitutional ammendments banning gay marriage. Note that they were state constitutions, not the national. If you don't like those policies, either challenge them legally or move somewhere else.
 
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FL/PO2 Chipmunk Man/Kaph 3-1/Phoenix/mSSD Atrus/DEF/VEN/VE/(=A=)[LoC][MC:1]

Explorer Post 1863 photos - - Explorer Post 1863 Main Site - - Co. D 62nd PA Volunteer Infantry

Co. E 30th PA Volunteer Infantry - - James Buchanan's Wheatland

"And I wouldn't trade ol' Leroy or my Chevrolet
For your Escalade or your freak parade,
I'm the only John Wayne left in this town!" -Big & Rich
[This message has been edited by chipmunk man (edited November 3, 2004 4:08:09 PM)]
Japheth
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  RE: America elected his Hitler a second time...
November 3, 2004 4:35:53 PM    View the profile of Japheth 
It is the obligation of the people of the United States of America to rebel against a government they don't like. We have formal and legal rebellions with every election. If we need a more immediate one we are duty-bound to carry it out. What do you think this country was founded on?

And I'm sorry, chip, but honostly... Do you really not believe they won't revoke more of our rights? Did you even experience the Patriot Act? It's big brother is right around the corner. I can hear its footsteps. Its on its way, and its angry.
 
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Lukas_Yuy
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  RE: America elected his Hitler a second time...
November 3, 2004 4:39:23 PM    View the profile of Lukas_Yuy 
Yesterday I went and voted for President Bush. We had a schoolwide mock election, and Bush won that which was surprising because I thought most of our school was Liberal/Democrat. I know a few teachers that are Republican, and they are one of the few. I for one, am glad that George Bush got me and my parents votes.

I voted for President Bush because I know he is an awesome president and he knows what he is doing. I don't care what people think of him, I will stick up for him no matter what, even if it means going to war. John Kerry on the other hand, wouldn't have done jack squat for the people in Iraq. In my opinion, Kerry said one thing and then said another thing to please the people he was trying to convince. He just couldn't keep his viewpoints straight, the way I look at it.

Well for now, I am going to stop and say one last thing. If Kerry would have become president, he would have pulled the American soldiers out of Iraq and the Terrorists would be able to attack as they please.
 
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Japheth
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  RE: America elected his Hitler a second time...
November 3, 2004 4:45:11 PM    View the profile of Japheth 
1) all politicians always lie, to tell yourself otherwise is delusion

2) the threat of terrorist acts nationwide is fairly small, the threat of a terrorist act that will directly impact your daily life if you live anywhere but one of the 5 largest population centers in the US is virtually negledgable


3) the soldiers shouldn't be in Iraq in the first place

The american populace has allowed the scare tactics of the Bush administration to work far too well. I'm frankly ashamed to live in a nation populated by so many sheep...

PS - jeezus, I never realized how liberal I was. Why am I even i the lounge...

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Vice Admiral Japheth Cappadocious, Krath Templar
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[This message has been edited by Japheth (edited November 3, 2004 4:46:19 PM)]
chipmunk man
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  RE: America elected his Hitler a second time...
November 3, 2004 4:53:01 PM    View the profile of chipmunk man 
Japheth, our political system is filled with things like referendums, impeachments and recalls specifically so that we can govern ourselves without violence. If people don't like the system, they should either change it legally (start a petition or something, don't grab your torches!) or move somewhere else.

No, the Patriot Act has not affected my freedoms because I am not a terrorist and have nothing to hide. I honestly haven't felt any impact on my life other than feeling more secure.

I repeat my earlier statement about not wanting people to hate each other over the election. I understand that you are all probably very upset. But before you grab your torches, remember that there is always the next election. I won't lie to you, I hope that the republicans win again, but remember that this election isn't the end of the world.
 
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Explorer Post 1863 photos - - Explorer Post 1863 Main Site - - Co. D 62nd PA Volunteer Infantry

Co. E 30th PA Volunteer Infantry - - James Buchanan's Wheatland

"And I wouldn't trade ol' Leroy or my Chevrolet
For your Escalade or your freak parade,
I'm the only John Wayne left in this town!" -Big & Rich
Japheth
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  RE: America elected his Hitler a second time...
November 3, 2004 4:57:55 PM    View the profile of Japheth 
A republican congress won't get rid of this president. Sometimes violence is the only alternative to be heard. You must accept that. Thats how we gained our independance in the first place. Some of us do not have the monitary ability to move somewhere else, it isn't an option. Don't believe that petitions will get you anywhere. Its unlikely.

The Patriot Act affected my freedoms. No longer can I take a flight without practically having a body cavity search performed. Rights of privacy are basically gone now. I do not feel more secure than I did before. I never felt insecure in the first place.

Scare tactics. Its all to frighten people into submission. Its working.

PS - Though I admit that a peaceful solution is by far the best, I have also long believed that America is generally in need of another revolution and has been for a while. Its a rather radical opinion, and I admit that, but I can see it doing soooo much good for everyone once the dust all settles.

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Vice Admiral Japheth Cappadocious, Krath Templar
Naval Commander in Chief, Captain of the mSSD Atrus
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NCC/VAD Japheth Cappadocious/NHC-1/Raptor 1/mSSD Atrus/DEF/VEN/VE/(=MA=)(=SCPA=)(=FCO=)[BRC][LSM][MC:1][KC:OC]
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[This message has been edited by Japheth (edited November 3, 2004 5:02:36 PM)]
chipmunk man
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  RE: America elected his Hitler a second time...
November 3, 2004 5:05:52 PM    View the profile of chipmunk man 
Japheth, you're scaring me. I don't want to have to keep my hunting equipment ready to take it to a civil war.

Before simply damning the whole system that our ancestors died to provide for us at least try legal solutions. If you haven't even tried them, how do you know they won't work? The difference between now and the American Revolution is that our founding fathers tried every legal possibility available to them and it still didn't work. Use those legal possibilities before starting a civil war. Otherwise you can't justify yourself as a legitimate movement, you'll simply be another bunch of madmen in the same category as Osama bin Laden, just with a different purpose for killing.
 
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  RE: America elected his Hitler a second time...
November 3, 2004 5:15:23 PM    View the profile of Japheth 
I'm not saying that the legal possibilities shouldn't be persued first. I fully support that. I am not optimistic concerning the results, however.

I'll leave you with a quote from one of those founding fathers:

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
  --  Thomas Jefferson
Rema
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  RE: America elected his Hitler a second time...
November 3, 2004 5:39:21 PM    View the profile of Rema 
Geez where to start.

1) Ignorance is running amok through the united states.

2)If Kerry wanted to ban automatic weapons fine by mean. You dont need an M-16 or an AK to hunt deer.

3)When he says we went into iraq alone, we went in without the other major superpowers of this world. (Except Britian)

4)He wants to take a different approach with North Korea. An approach that had been working before Bush took office. I dont remember the exact name of the two types of approaches.

5)Patriot Act=Takes our freedoms away. Japheth is right, Patriot Act 2 will be worse.

6)Its true that revolutions are good for nations. They keep the leaders of the nations in check. I think it was Thomas Jefferson who said something to the extent of "Rebellions every few years are good for a nation."

7)With the government we have legal things will never work.

8)Ignorance is running amok through the United States.

9)Ignorance is running amok through the United States.

10)Ignorance is running amok through the United States.

Thats all.
 
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Jack Nebulax
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  RE: America elected his Hitler a second time...
November 3, 2004 6:34:21 PM    View the profile of Jack Nebulax 
I might have voted for Kerry, but I knew that Bush would win. Hey, we all can't get what we want.
 
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Revenge is what holds this galaxy together. Without it, the universe would be a boring place.
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Afyon
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  RE: America elected his Hitler a second time...
November 3, 2004 6:34:25 PM    View the profile of Afyon 
Wow a lot has gone on since I last posted, lol.  Ok where to begin.

Chipmunk said:

"Conservatives do not want to strip freedoms. I'm a die-hard conservative myself. The main point of conservative ideology is limiting government involvement in order to preserve freedom."

So tell me, the fact that the US can hold secret tribunals, strip the citizen of any American and deport them on suspicion of terrorism, the FBI can at any time obtain information to such things such as what library books you read.  This is freedom?  I don't know about you but I don't want someone watching over my shoulder all the time, that's not freedom.  Patriot Act, Patriot Act, Patriot Act.  A document brought in by a conservative that restricts freedom.

Oh ya and lets not forget that the US is going to have evangelical christian beliefs shoved down their throats after a couple of fanatical senators got elected *cough Jim DeMint cough*.  I fail to see how homosexuals will be free to live their lives as they want.  Not to mention the fact that senators such as Jim DeMint want to ban all abortions, ban all single mothers from being teachers, ban all homosexuals from beinh teachers, and change the constitution to ban homosexuality.  Seems to me thats restricting freedom but hell what do I know, I live in a "socialist" country which is decriminalizing pot and legalizing same-sex marriage.

Lukas said:

"I voted for President Bush because I know he is an awesome president and he knows what he is doing. I don't care what people think of him, I will stick up for him no matter what, even if it means going to war. "

So apparently the fact you deem someone as awesome is enough to vote for them and as long as you deem that person awesome, it doesn't matter that they feed you a crock of bull as reasons to go to war.  Wow so much for rational thought and being informed eh?

Lukas said:

"If Kerry would have become president, he would have pulled the American soldiers out of Iraq and the Terrorists would be able to attack as they please."

The terrorists can't attack now because American troops are in Iraq?  I don't know about you but I seem to have this strange belief that there are terrorists in countries other than Iraq.  I fail to see your logic.

Chipmunk said:

"No, the Patriot Act has not affected my freedoms because I am not a terrorist and have nothing to hide. I honestly haven't felt any impact on my life other than feeling more secure."

Oh of course governments and law enforcement agencies would never, ever, distort any sort of legislation and use it for anything except in the spirit it was intended, how could I have possibly thought otherwise?  And the fact that you have fewer civil liberties makes you feel safer.  Aside from being a slight bit perplexed at your lack of concern about the growing creation of a big brother state, especially if the Patriot Act 2 gets voted in which it should now with the Republicans controlling everything, I can't seem to understand how having less liberties makes you feel safer.

Chipmunk said:

"another bunch of madmen in the same category as Osama bin Laden"

Wow, for being a madman he seems to have this amazing ability to avoid being captured.  I guess plotting to get 19 terrorists into the US to crash 4 planes into different locations in less than an hour is purely elementary since a "madman" can do it.  Osama bin Laden may be motivated by hatred but he isn't blinded by it.  I would argue that he is a ruthless, but very very clever person.

Rema said:

"8)Ignorance is running amok through the United States.

9)Ignorance is running amok through the United States.

10)Ignorance is running amok through the United States."

Damn straight remmy.
 
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[This message has been edited by Afyon (edited November 3, 2004 6:37:04 PM)]
blah909
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  RE: America elected his Hitler a second time...
November 3, 2004 7:39:47 PM    View the profile of blah909 
i started to read all this, but i decided that what you people have said won't likely affect it, so yeah:

ok, the reason people vote for bush is that the republican party has been able to re-package its self as "compassinate conservative." traditionaly, the south doesn't go for bush like that. they've absconded with the moral and social values of the south, and mixed it up in their whole new facade, and it worked. the people-of-one-book-and-only-the-one-book (the one book being the bible, the people being ignorant and religous zealots) voted, and they and their children deserve that which bush is bringing in. all the progress that we as a nation have made in the last 40 YEARS will be destroyed in 4, because the "compassinate conservatives" have control of the ENTIRE GOVERNMENT. executive, legeslative (house and senate), and soon the judical when some of the justices retire. and don't worry, the draft won't start until June 15, 2005.

and if this country completly goes to the facist zealots, i'm heading for ireland.
 
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Afyon
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  RE: America elected his Hitler a second time...
November 3, 2004 7:45:18 PM    View the profile of Afyon 
you can always come to canada :P
 
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Sniping101
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  RE: America elected his Hitler a second time...
November 3, 2004 7:47:03 PM    View the profile of Sniping101 
wow this topic got big fast, but heres a reason somebody prolly already said: We know what to expect from the Shrub, who the heck knew what kerry was going to do, asfor the domain, my vote was completely random, i was in it for the IC's or i would have taken option 3
 
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  RE: America elected his Hitler a second time...
November 3, 2004 8:09:34 PM    View the profile of Afyon 
put it this way snipes, anyone the democrats could put up would be better than Bush.  Kerry couldn't possibly have been worse.
 
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Japheth
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  RE: America elected his Hitler a second time...
November 3, 2004 8:27:58 PM    View the profile of Japheth 
Thats been my stance the whole time. Just listen to John Strewart. For all of his being a comedian, he makes some good points.
 
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Vice Admiral Japheth Cappadocious, Krath Templar
Naval Commander in Chief, Captain of the mSSD Atrus
Headmaster of the Dark Jedi Order Academy
-----------------------
NCC/VAD Japheth Cappadocious/NHC-1/Raptor 1/mSSD Atrus/DEF/VEN/VE/(=MA=)(=SCPA=)(=FCO=)[BRC][LSM][MC:1][KC:OC]
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