ok, now lets look at this from my point of veiw, sence im once again bored.

i wouldnt even mind the US attacking Iraq if they had mearly said they wanted to take over the damn country, not "Save the People" or try and make it some noble calling, if they had just stated their true intentions. i dotn believe the war in Iraq was meant for any reason other to advance some poloticians career. im getting real sick of the US trying to hide behind a thin vail of imagained honor

ok, i got a bit sidetracked ther. WMD dont say anything about a country though, its not a decent reason behind an attack, if we wher to attack every country with WMD we would basicaly haveto blow up the planet and if it whernt for the enviromental effects i wouldnt even care about the use of them. i dont believe in "rules of war" or "War Crimes" Because ther is no honor in war ther is no reason to fight with any.
im tired and my thoughts are starting to get confused so im gonna quite
 
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Formaly the Perpetual PFC
TRP/FTC/SGT Sniping101/CrazyRAIDERS/1PLT/1COM/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE [LoR][IH][BoA]
"Ther is Nothing so Exilerating as being Shot at without Result" - Winston Churchill
Sanitys Last Stop

I did not mean that to insult them, I simply find Jap easier to write and say than Japanese. However, I will stop using that term here if it does offend people.
 
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"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstien

"There is a certain kind of peace that can be found only on the other side of war." -Sean Connery as King Arthur in "First Knight."


FL/PO2 Chipmunk Man/Kaph 3-1/Phoenix/mSSD Atrus/DEF/VEN/VE/(=A=)[LoC][MC:1]

Chipmunk man, there is more than one side to the analysis of the whys in history.  Do not fail to neglect that there are sound arguments against the dropping of the atom bomb.  For example, Hiroshima's harbour was mined to make it impossible for supplies to enter or leave the harbour.  Also, the Japanese had been all but defeated on the mainland so their strength had been diminished greatly.  Keep in mind as well, Hiroshima was said to be a military target which it was not.  Nagasaki had 100% no military value.  One other thing to remember, the start of the cold war and the realisation that America would be facing communism again.  What better way to gain some advantage by using a scare tactic and demonstrating the power of this devastating weapon.

Just some food for thought.
 
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SL/ESN_Arturus/Kaph 1-1/Phoenix Wing/M-SSD_Atrus/VE/VEN/(=a=)(=sa=)(=jcpa=)(=scpa=)[MC:1][SV][BRC][LoC]
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No...I expect to leave on some beach with absolutely no name at all while I sail away on my ship...and then Ill shout the name back to you...savvy?

so essentially you are saying civilians are of military value and should thus be destroyed in war.

Your argument would therefore justify the slaughtering of innocent women and children.

Think about the implications of what you say before you say them, they may cause you to think differently.
 
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SL/ESN_Arturus/Kaph 1-1/Phoenix Wing/M-SSD_Atrus/VE/VEN/(=a=)(=sa=)(=jcpa=)(=scpa=)[MC:1][SV][BRC][LoC]
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No...I expect to leave on some beach with absolutely no name at all while I sail away on my ship...and then Ill shout the name back to you...savvy?

Kuroishi's psycho terrorist ways are a far cry from my own morality but even he takes it as an unbreakable rule to never kill a civilian in combat, of course once they arm themselves and start firing on his men then he'll use what ever brutal and effective methods are at his disposal.  In war there is only one rule, win.

As far as the past and the reasons for the war I'll have to do a variation of a quote of some of Polani's(sp?) philosophy:

Everything is a matter of perspective.  What one person sees another does not neccessarily see.

Based on the timing and way we've been fighting the war I'd say there were two major factors to this war in Iraq 1: Bush Jr. wants his dad to be proud of him for doing something that Sr. couldn't.

2: To distract us commoners from our internal problems.

Sure the dow may be over 10,000 and unemployment may be dropping, but why is it I know more people who are unemployed or about to become unemployed then are employed?
 
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Kuroishi Wraith VEA
Daishi Raptor VEN
Assistant Writer Why Project Copyright Infringment
Ich bin hessliche amerikaner.
Nehmen mir zu dein frauen von vernunftig preis tugendhafte.
"And the sound of many heads hitting many solid objects was heard throughout the land." me

    Hiroshima...  Would you say that we won the war with that one bomb?  No. 
    I have some brain food for you Art.  If we killed all those defenceless people,(not implying they were armed of course), why exactly did we do again a few days later. 
    You could say we were trying to make people afraid of us...  I don't beleive that.  It might also be interesting to take note that the Japanese didn't actually surrender until after the second atomic bomb. 
    Maybe we had to show that we would do anything to defend out country, even if it meant killing thier citizens.  Not that I agree with that, but if you were the president, and hundreds of your men were dying at the hands of the Japanese and germans...  You have to ask youself, would you sacrifice others lives for those of the people here? 
    And they are related just incase you wanted to say they weren't.  Try to think of what would have happened if we did not drop those bombs.  That is putting the Japanese into both an economical depression and tecnological wipeout...  Let's say they made a devestating move on us, which I don't actually think was possible at that point.  But just ponder that real quick...
 
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*Flash Was Here...*
My Real Bebop: (=A=)

I was gonna read the posts here, but decided not to because Talon's basically right. That and i would HAVE to argue.
 
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+ Advance Recon Commandos {ARC} +
"Only Trust your Allies as much as you can Predict your Enemies."
"Do you expect me to talk?" "No Mr. Bond, i expect you to die."
"Luke, I am your Fasha."
To Nom Anor, a truly superior Yuuzhan Vong.
TRP/CPL Rema/2SQD/2PLT/1COM/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE [LoR][OPE] [AM-B][AM-S][AM-P][IH][SoA]

err. . .ya art, you summed up what i said real well, now what was your point?
 
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Formaly the Perpetual PFC
TRP/FTC/SGT Sniping101/CrazyRAIDERS/1PLT/1COM/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE [LoR][IH][BoA]
"I'm a little teapot, short and stout" - Sniping101
Sanitys Last Stop

and if nothing else its good practice
 
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Formaly the Perpetual PFC
TRP/FTC/SGT Sniping101/CrazyRAIDERS/1PLT/1COM/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE [LoR][IH][BoA]
"Listen up you primitive screwheads; this is my boomstick" -Ash
Sanitys Last Stop

Why was this topic exhumed?

Tal, my ego doesn't need a boost, I just like arguing, so here goes...


Japan-I think that we were right to drop the bomb, because in the end it saved a lot more lives then it ended.  That aaid, the choice of a target was not right.  I've never supported killing civilians in battle, we should have hit them in a target with actual military value, not just a city that woulkd scare them. 

We did not go into Iraq to take over the country, as we are giving it back to the Iraqis just as soon as we can.  We hit them because Saddam in power was a threat to our country.  Hewas seriously diusturbed, hated our country, and was working on developing WMDs.  The point isn't to attack everyone with WMDs, just to keep them away from people that would use them on us.

Of course the economy is down.  Bush took over in the middle of a recession, and soon afterwards our Trade Towers were taken down and a bunch of economic scandals sent the stock market into a tailspin.  It is surprising that we've already had the recovery that we did. 

Lesse, what else.  How can you say that CNN is spreading propoganda for Bush?  They hate him there, if you look at their staff you will find that the majority of them actually worked in Democrat campaign teams.  ANd does anyone else find it funny that no-one local is covering Kerry's recent affair with a girl that just graduated from high school.  If it was Bush, it would be all over the news.

My rant is done now.  Enjoy.
 
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LCM_ JMac/(=A=)(=SA=)(=MA)(=FOCE=)(MC1)(VC)

Viva el gato mojado!!!!

As a great man once said, here, is where you are.

Fury's last post was a week ago.  Why are you saying this now?
 
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LCM_ JMac/(=A=)(=SA=)(=MA)(=FOCE=)(MC1)(VC)

Viva el gato mojado!!!!

As a great man once said, here, is where you are.

ya, ok, technically we gave the countryback to the iraqis, but think about it, we set up their government the way we wanted it and anybody with WMD are a potential threat, we cant predict whats in the future, whos to say Saddam would've used them for anything other than scaring us? i think hw has a right to hate america. hell i wont even work for most englishmen when they come over here because most of them (all of the ones i wont work for) think their so [Edit] better than us. so ya he has a right to hate america.

and the part about CNN being a propaganda staion dosent mean its propaganda for bush or even blatant propaganda, it may be more subtle than that.

i wont go into conspirancy theories here, i'll just stop here and wish this thread had been locked in the beginning.

and i also think i should make something clear: i do beleave citys and civilins have a military value: however i do not condone starting wars though, i believe in taking the offensive if you are attacked, but i dont believe it is neccessay to start a war, there are better ways to solve the problem than war. war is a waste of time, money and life. i dont know, maybe im a fool.
 
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Formaly the Perpetual PFC
TRP/FTC/SGT Sniping101/CrazyRAIDERS/1PLT/1COM/1BAT/1RGT/VEA/VE [LoR][IH][BoA]
I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle, here is my spout. When I see an ARC all short and stout, BOOM!  He flies through the hall and out. -anonymous

Um, again I ask: didn't anybody else hear about how Saddam helped Timothy McViegh (or however you spell his name)? That's right folks, NPR actually dug up evidence that their really was a conspiracy in the Oklahoma City Bombing, and Saddam was in on it. He gave Tim money and two goons to help with the technical stuff. That consitutes direct assistance in a terrorist attack. Now think on this: if he helped with that, what more was he planning? Chem weapons? Bio attacks? Or even a primitive nuke? My point is, Saddam helped to attack America, and was probably in the stages of planning somethibigger.

You may be asking this: why didn't we hear more about this Oklahoma City thing? The answer is this: CNN, along with the rest of the libral-controlled-media, hates Bush. That it was reported on NPR at all suprises me. That CNN would actually go and say something good about Bush creating jobs has me nearly reeling.

I also want to reiterate that we did not invade Iraq for oil or any such thing. That  has been fairly well proven by the fact that the oil fields have been turned back over to the Iraqi's. And while I cannot speak for the rest of the US, I know that gas prices in my town have been soaring to stupidly high levels. So no, we have not been flooded by cheap Iraqi oil, because that is not the reason we invaded.
 
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"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstien

"There is a certain kind of peace that can be found only on the other side of war." -Sean Connery as King Arthur in "First Knight."

"People like you are the reason people like me take medication." -Cool T-shirt

FL/PO2 Chipmunk Man/Kaph 3-1/Phoenix/mSSD Atrus/DEF/VEN/VE/(=A=)[LoC][MC:1]

I do hope that Vukan is a girl...

If not, then, well, I pity JMac beyond very much...

/me shudders.
 
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"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstien

"There is a certain kind of peace that can be found only on the other side of war." -Sean Connery as King Arthur in "First Knight."

"People like you are the reason people like me take medication." -Cool T-shirt

FL/PO2 Chipmunk Man/Kaph 3-1/Phoenix/mSSD Atrus/DEF/VEN/VE/(=A=)[LoC][MC:1]

Before anyone starts in on me on whether or not Bush avoided military duty, forget everything else and explain to me why he absolutely needed to be away from his consentual signed military obligation for eight months, the eight months at the end he was allowed to forfeit.  He was in college for god's sake.  Many, many people do drill while in grad school, even doctoral programs.  So, yeah, if even the rest of the situation gets explained away (and I sincerely doubt it), that will always look bad.  So put the soapboxes away.

Also, Drudge got it wrong.  There was no infidelity, just the conservative mud slinging poster boy misquoting people as usual.  That said, no infidelity that we can prove.  All politicians are by some measure sleazier than that rest of us. It wouldn't surprise me and wouldn't change my mind about any issues.
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PRF/GEN Fury/VEA/TADATH/VE [SCP][PoC][SotE:HC][SotE:VEA][IOC]
Prefect - Stormtrooper Corps
Administrator - Imperial Center