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Topic:  Naval Wiki Topic
TosthAaaiser
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  RE: Naval Wiki Topic
July 18, 2013 3:48:26 PM    View the profile of TosthAaaiser 
Thank for the quick responses on this, guys.

Deep, I know most won't be interested in the older squadrons. The pages are very outdated, but I feel we should at least honor the contributions that got us to the point we are today. I'll be proposing a formal outline in the next few days to show what I am ultimately planning for that. And it's also good for new recruits to see the changes we've gone through over the years; why we're a notch above the rest of the clubs in existence.

Avvie, thanks for that clarification. Not sure if finding a formal date is possible, but I will be looking.

As for the matter regarding Dunny's actions... I personally think it should be NHC's decision on how to handle the Chlovi wiki page. I'm not sure if there's anything else he tampered with as of yet.
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Trykon
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  RE: Naval Wiki Topic
July 18, 2013 3:58:41 PM    View the profile of Trykon 
Properly, it will be the new CNW's call, regarding Chlovi.  After Absit (post is coming!), we'll make the in-story changes necessary to reflect recent changes to the NHC, and my instinct is that at that point, we'll create some page acknowledging the 50th existed for a time, but not much else besides.

And since I'm chiming in, I'll also say that I second Deep's point.  Other than some basic clean-up and standardization (which seems like a fine idea), the old/ancient squadron pages can afford to be kept sparse.  We want to make sure there's SOME record of what's come before, to pay some deference to our VE "ancestors," but it IS the past... I'd rather we focus on contemporary pages first and foremost.
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TosthAaaiser
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  RE: Naval Wiki Topic
July 18, 2013 4:21:54 PM    View the profile of TosthAaaiser 
Sounds good, Trick. I'll PM a few details on the page I'm drafting up that sparked this little deliberation a bit later tonight.

Until then, we wait for Serpent for the decisions regarding Chlovi's existence and wiki page.
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  RE: Naval Wiki Topic
July 19, 2013 5:25:03 AM    View the profile of Serpent 
I'm in agreement with Trick regarding Chlovi.  We'll make a historic note of it after the IC changes coming up, but otherwise won't develop it much.

Also, thanks again for raising the awards cap!  My Long Service Medal is now showing.  Still, I went ahead and used that Naval Exams template you linked, splitting out my awards.  Cheers man!

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  RE: Naval Wiki Topic
July 19, 2013 5:46:51 AM    View the profile of Hades 
I've gone ahead and undone his change. It was one click, but feel free to overrule me if we feel Chlovi needs to be swept into a shadowy corner

Edit: Frankly, he is not the only one who worked on Chlovi and just as I'd not expect it of DeepSix to destroy Vornskr's wiki page (even though Vornskr has solely been him) I don't think it's right for anyone to be able to effectively erase something more than just one selfish SCO has contributed to.

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[This message has been edited by Hades (edited July 19, 2013 5:47:32 AM)]
[This message has been edited by Hades (edited July 19, 2013 6:01:27 AM)]
TosthAaaiser
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  RE: Naval Wiki Topic
July 20, 2013 10:06:25 PM    View the profile of TosthAaaiser 
I don't think there's a problem with bringing back Chlovi's page, Hades. I know you did a bit of work with Chlovi, and I think your decision should be final regarding this matter, but... I could be wrong.

Now, I've run this by Trick and thought I would propose it to everyone else as well. I know I wasn't too clear earlier, but my proposal for the wiki page is this:
Quote:My basic idea stems from the blank pages off of our main naval wiki page, being the Starfighter Corps and Fleet Command pages. My hope was to fill these pages up. Obviously, with more detail with our active squadrons, PC or NPC, and mentioning the other wings and squadrons in passing, by listing dates of activity and linking to individual squadron pages. As for the active squadrons, I was planning on listing the current structures on that same page, accounting for all PCs and NPCs.

Hence why I was asking if the Wings were constructed correctly in one of my previous posts.

If I could have some input on this over the next few days while I whip up the wiki page. It'll be clearer when I get that up and running.
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  RE: Naval Wiki Topic
July 21, 2013 1:53:08 AM    View the profile of Grey 
To the extent Chlovi is concerned, I think it best for any unpleasantness to be left out and we implement a type of FTB - fade to black - note at the end.

I.E. After their actions in Counterpunch, Chlovi-Cat Squadron was closed due to VEN-wide changes.

The rest of this wiki idea looks intriguing, albeit outside of my domain.
TosthAaaiser
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  RE: Naval Wiki Topic
July 22, 2013 11:56:00 PM    View the profile of TosthAaaiser 
Starfighter Corps people, looking over the Blade Wing wiki page, it seems grossly out of date. There will soon be a direct link into this page, so I think it best to clean it up.

I can go ahead and update it, but I would need to know how exactly we want to handle indicating Chlovi's been closed and if the NPC/PC SCs are accurate. I know Jexxel needs to be changed, and I have a feeling the same will need to be done for Vornskr.

Still going through and finding relevant dates, but also trying to figure out a good way to note for deactivation. I do like Deep's thoughts on the matter, and may end up going on that route.
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Gurlanin
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  RE: Naval Wiki Topic
October 23, 2013 5:56:31 PM    View the profile of Gurlanin 
/me blows some dust off this

I'm assuming, looking at the Blade Wing wiki page, that it was never updated. I'm going to update the things pertaining to Strill, and leave the rest untouched, as Fishhead's post was never answered.

Also, I had an idea, as dangerous as that may sound. The Navy character template does not show what certification each person has passed. There is space for it, however. For example, my wiki page says this:

OOC:
Naval Certifications
First Certification
Cert 1.1:   
Ace 1.gif - Experienced Pilot
Cert 1.2:   
Ace 2.gif - Elite Pilot
Cert 1.3:   
Ace 3.gif - Top Gun


Whilst it is not essential, and it is fairly obvious what one is studying for, I feel as though it would be nice to at least give the option to show what cert is which.

Thoughts?
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TosthAaaiser
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  RE: Naval Wiki Topic
October 23, 2013 10:23:41 PM    View the profile of TosthAaaiser 
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You mean something like this Gur? It's one of the later templates that we have...
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TosthAaaiser
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  RE: Naval Wiki Topic
October 23, 2013 10:25:47 PM    View the profile of TosthAaaiser 
Oh. And forgot about the Blade Wing stuff.

I talked to Deep a while back and I'm waiting on Serpywerpy to finalize some details before I update those pages...
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  RE: Naval Wiki Topic
October 24, 2013 4:13:18 AM    View the profile of Gurlanin 
No, I meant down the side, underneath all the other personal information.
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  RE: Naval Wiki Topic
October 24, 2013 8:16:23 AM    View the profile of Hades 
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I think Gurlanin means the certification section of the infobox, where you show your certs. Note that there's no title, only a name for each tier - not the overall cert.

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  RE: Naval Wiki Topic
October 24, 2013 8:26:56 AM    View the profile of Gurlanin 
Hades is correct.

Sorry, I would have posted a screenshot, but I'm on my iPad at the moment.
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  RE: Naval Wiki Topic
October 24, 2013 10:12:07 AM    View the profile of TosthAaaiser 
Oh... To circumvent the lack of indication of what cert has been passed, I typically put an "achieved" or "not yet achieved" comment to the right of the cert...

And as to the info box having no title for each cert track... That's very easy to fix, which does sound like a great idea.
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  RE: Naval Wiki Topic
October 24, 2013 10:14:14 AM    View the profile of Gurlanin 
I tried my hand at altering the template, but failed miserably. XD
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  RE: Naval Wiki Topic
October 24, 2013 10:20:34 AM    View the profile of TosthAaaiser 
As long as you didn't save the changes, no worries...

I've had experience with creating and modifying templates. But this change should probably go through NHC first, as it would require most everyone to alter their pages... I'll contact them as soon as I get back from class today unless someone comments here and gives me approval to modify the hybrid table regarding the cert section.
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  RE: Naval Wiki Topic
October 24, 2013 10:29:02 AM    View the profile of Gurlanin 
Not really. There's already a slot for it in the template, it's just unused, and is a fairly simple insertion, but I just didn't have luck doing it.

My idea was to, under where it says 'First Certification', have another block in the same font and background, just with the text able to be altered according to what cert was done.
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  RE: Naval Wiki Topic
October 24, 2013 11:19:14 AM    View the profile of Trykon 
Honestly, I don't see the big deal... the present table allows plenty of flexibility, no?  Gurlanin, take a look at the table on my wiki page (access through signature): it's clear, isn't it?
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  RE: Naval Wiki Topic
October 24, 2013 11:21:15 AM    View the profile of Gurlanin 
/me holds up hands in defence

Alright, alright! I get it! None of you want it! I just thought it would be nice little addition, but I guess I was wrong!
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  RE: Naval Wiki Topic
October 24, 2013 11:27:02 AM    View the profile of Trykon 
Whoa!  Do not fear the Admiral title! 

I'm not attacking; I just wanted more insight as to what, specifically, you saw as lacking, from the current system.    I'm amenable to suggestions!  I just often need some hand-holding, to see the necessity of making changes. 
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  RE: Naval Wiki Topic
October 24, 2013 12:03:09 AM    View the profile of Hades 
I'll hold your hand, Admiral.

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  RE: Naval Wiki Topic
October 24, 2013 12:03:11 AM    View the profile of TosthAaaiser 
Okay. That escalated quickly.

Trick, to clear things up, this is our current table, yes?

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What Gur is talking about is adding a row below the "xth certification" row.

I see where he's coming from. Looking at the certifications themselves, it's obvious which track is being shown. But a quick glance, especially for newer recruits, it's not as quickly identified, perhaps.

Plus, there is the "SCTP" column. A specific cert listed. It might flow better if it utilizes the same type of formatting, being adding in a row to specifically show which certification track it is.

Does that help in explaining this? It's a very minor edit, not necessarily needed, but it could end up being useful.
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  RE: Naval Wiki Topic
October 24, 2013 12:10:53 AM    View the profile of Trykon 
Ah.  Thanks, Fishhead.  I'd be amenable to a row under the "Nth Certification" row, for writing which Cert track it is, sure.

I think the problem here was that folks just weren't sure what was being talked about specifically.  Patience, everyone! 

Gurlanin, that seems like a minor (but useful) change: I'm all for folks with template-editing experience taking a look at implementing it.
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  RE: Naval Wiki Topic
October 24, 2013 12:51:29 AM    View the profile of DeepSix 
Assuming I recall correctly, using a variable instead of the actual text would create the table but only weird brackets would show up in place of the text in that specific column. That's easily solved by filling in the certs in question but that would imply knowing from the very start all 4 certs you can currently take, and I doubt everyone will stick to such plans for such a relatively long period of time. I'm mentioning this because it could be used as a con to such an implementation. Then again if someone can implement it by finding a way around this small issue then awesome! If not, I think the only other choice is personalized templates. At least that's what I went with in order to accomplish a somewhat similar goal...
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  RE: Naval Wiki Topic
October 24, 2013 12:59:50 AM    View the profile of TosthAaaiser 
There is a work-around for the displaying of brackets. When I get some time to sit down and actually implement it, I'll definitely make sure there's options for personalization...
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  RE: Naval Wiki Topic
October 24, 2013 7:50:02 PM    View the profile of Drac 
Ah, very interesting topic. (I originally created the template for the Certifications.) I'm totally open to suggestions for improvements, just as Trick is, but I do want to explain some of the thought that went into how the template is currently designed.

First, as a point of reference, the Certifications system was always meant to be organic by nature so that new Certs could be developed and implemented with a minimum of fuss (especially given how few people can code these things).

As I understand it from a quick read-through, one of the main ideas that's been expressed is that every Cert should have a pre-dedicated section that maybe just won't appear if that Cert isn't in use. That's great as far as it goes, but it does necessitate another update of the template when, at some point, the system is updated or expanded. It’s also a good bit of work and data intensive.

The other main idea I picked up on was having it so that the Certification's name appears in the header box or in a secondary header box that would go directly above the stages. This is pretty doable, and if that's the direction everyone wants to go I'd be happy to edit the template (I figure it will be easiest for me to do it, since I already understand it).

As an overall note regarding template design, the primary theory behind how I've built my last several templates for the VE is to balance appearance with streamlined format. Everyone wants good looking templates, obviously, but the streamlined format side of that isn’t as obvious unless you’ve spent a lot of time playing with these things. The wiki has a recommended limit on how big a page can get, which is 32 kb. It’s not a hard line by any means (Bacredi’s page, for example, is 219 kbs) but there is the possibility that a large page may not load for someone with an old or weak computer- or possibly even become a burden on the admittedly geriatric (read: old) wiki itself. Templates, by their nature, are pretty data heavy as page components go. Thus it’s a good idea to make templates as modular as possible. It puts a bit more responsibility on the person building the page, but it’s better for the page’s and the wiki’s performance.

Edit: Also, a brief explanation on why the Ship Captaincy cert is specifically broken out: It's due to the design of the Certifications system itself. Basically, one of these things is not like the others. If you check out the Naval Certifications wiki page itself, you'll see that the Ship Captaincy cert actually isn't even mentioned...which is an actual oversight that I need to fix. Whoops. Anyway...the point is that the other Certifications are "earned" based on rank while this one is not. Therefore I felt it merited its own section during the creation of the template.

Final Note: I think I'll take a look at this system overall, if Trykon's willing. It's high time that it get a re-evaluation and possible revamp. In the short term, at least, the Bridge Officer Cert may need to be shut down. We've naturally developed a good, working system for that outside the Certs system and the two don't need to be interfering with each other.

-Drac
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[This message has been edited by Drac (edited October 24, 2013 8:00:29 PM)]
[This message has been edited by Drac (edited October 24, 2013 8:01:53 PM)]
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  RE: Naval Wiki Topic
October 24, 2013 8:53:25 PM    View the profile of TosthAaaiser 
Sounds great, Drac. I think the general consensus for the cert table changes point in the direction of the second method, with the sub-heading

I might talk to Deep as well... He keeps alluding to an updated cert system that will be released sooner or later... I don't know any details on that front. May require a complete overhaul.
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  RE: Naval Wiki Topic
October 24, 2013 9:52:24 PM    View the profile of Hades 
Two Mon Calamari working in concert.. I feel there's something fishy going on.

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  RE: Naval Wiki Topic
October 25, 2013 11:31:37 AM    View the profile of DeepSix 
No idea when the new system will come a'knocking but odds are it will indeed require a complete overhaul. My suggestion though is to worry about that when it happens - so just cross one bridge at a time... and right now it's not yet that time alas
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