And I did try a story-writing idea for Venom, lol, but we didn't have the chance to really take it seriously.  I think it's still in the best interest of the pilot to get into a squadron as quickly as possible though: they can start making real connections and having real responsibility once situated, as opposed to spending time in limbo trying to complete assignments for "training."  We can't teach these people how to write, afterall lol- we just have to make sure they have the materials they need to be on  their way: a bio, a wiki page, and maybe a basic understanding of what will be expected of them.  If anything, training offers a buffer between serious recruits and recruits that will enter a squadron one day, and be gone the next: that's the BT's most essential function.  The rest is meant to make things easier on the squadron, lol.

What Arturo meant to say was. We should step up a bit in gaming as well. I know VE has since then moved from gaming to writing. but let's face it, VE used to have ton, a ton of members when it was high on gaming. According to Rizzit, in 2002, the VEN was FULL, imagine that, a full roster. I didn't even know that was possible. Now, i don't expect this to fill our ranks again, but it certainly won't hurt.

If people can get online, play games a bit more, participate in other gaming communities and help promote VE, i'm sure we can get in a lot more recruits than now. But that is a long term goal, and there's some more pressing matters.


Such as the VENA. I'm glad Shaz didn't take offense. and I completely agree with what he said. Through my entire career in the VEN, I hardly ever saw any of the tests, except AE, as helpful. to me they always presented themselves as obstacles. and naturally, my mindset was that I need to overcome the obstacles in order to move on to greater things. Instead of the helpful, informational, things, that they need to be.

And it is true that in recent years the tests have taken over as the main reason for promotions rather than good ol' hard work. In fact, I don't think there has been a single promotion for hard work in a long time, months. And that need to be changed. However, I do blame the partly absence of the top tier of leadership. By tradition, it almost always was Japh who gave out promotion, or an officer of lower grade, but with Japh's permission. Ever since Japh disappeared, promotions are no longer "approved" and thus went away as well.

If we move the majority of training to the squadrons, that's really just an official move. unofficially, that is already being done. After graduating from the Academy, no one really goes back for additional studies, and there's no one to teach the higher courses. The only thing we do in the NA after graduation is to read the "text" for further advancement, then take a test. not so much teaching and learning as to read, take test, hope you won't ever need it again.

That kind of attitude obviously does not help. and so i support your idea to move the additional courses to an interest basis. those that with to learn further are welcome to, if they wish to take the test, then they will be rewarded. might i suggest though, to go back to the old three-grade-system, distinction, pass, fail. no need to be too technical for them to be so technically specific in this case. However, they will not be required for further advancement as they are now. advancement into leadership position, as Shazam said, should not be decided by whether or not that person posses the knowledge to, or have passed a test, but instead be whether or not he has the skills and the ability to lead people, and whether or not he/she commands at least some respect from his fellow peers. (it wouldn't be very logical to make someone that everyone else dislikes into a leader) The knowledge of how a Tie works is just bonus.

However, I also think that there should be some form of new recognition for those that excels beyond others or show strong interest in their career. but that's something else entirely.

*Nods*  I think you hit it on the head when you said that the academy was providing more obstacles than advancements.  While I expected the tests to keep some folks from taking part, it was never intended to be soooo monstrous, lol.  Either way, it's something that needs to be fixed.  In any case, we ought to remember that the Academy is here to augment the capabilities of our pilots, not hinder them.  For that reason, I think that offering support materials would be a great role for the Academy to play.

In that same vein, I would point out that if squadrons were to take on the brunt of "training," we could still offer helpful articles, saving the SC some un-needed explaining.  I mean, I've already got some fairly well developed articles from over a year ago, lol, and they could easily be changed around and re-organized to suit a more squadron-friendly template.  *Drops work*

http://www.vastempire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Things_You_Gotta_Know_How_to_Do

http://www.vastempire.com/wiki/index.php?title=SC_Attitude

All of the articles need some re-hashing and redeveloping of purpose/intent, but I think articles like this could be extremely helpful in creating a tone/basis of comparison for SCs. 

Will's also absolutely correct about the role our higher-ups play in the promotion system.  Perhaps we need an official change in policy?

Points system, eh?  I'd usually be a bit skeptic about it, but as far as promotions go: might actually be a good place to put it.  We could try it out, at least and then have a review of it a couple months down the line?  Great suggestion.

Jumpin back to the comments about the ship career path: I love that idea and agree that it was poorly implemented.  Not sure how far folks are on putting that plan together, but whoever's been workin on it (or whatever plans they get together) perhaps they can put a post up keeping people updated?  I mean, that's somethin we ought to be taking advantage of, lol.  If it takes a while to get a decent picture of what's all goin on: might not be a bad thing.  I suspect getting some infrastructure down and clearing up some issues would be a fine place to start for the Navy right now.  Driver, do you have any work saved on that points system?

Also, lot of talk goin on about gamin.  I've never been much of one, but there've been attempts to get navy members aware of one another's games and platforms.  Perhaps we could have an interested member head up a project to come up with ideas, collect info/oppinions- whatevs?  Lol.  People who haven't read this topic in a while are ganna get pissed at how many replies we've generated tonight, but so be it, lol.  Anywho- great comments.

Got to read up a bit, but from the last part and a few glances at other parts, I think we need to get our own act together before we attempt to recruit folks.  (more to follow as I read)

The High Command...I don't want to come across as insubordinate here, but in agreement with the comment about Japheth's disappearance...what High Command? I phrased that a bit melodromatically, but the point stands. In my ten months here, only half of the Naval High Command has had significant communication with the membership of the Navy: StOrMz and, to a lesser extent, Denethor.

Without a High Command that interacts with its troops, these sweeping programs stall out or slow down. A great example is the Character Proficiency System...it took four months to get the go-ahead for that. What can be done to get that communication fixed?

One thing I would really like to see in the next few weeks in an Elite Pilot Competition. The last attempt at one of these failed due to lack of participation, but looking at this topic has me convinced that trying again would do a world of good for the Navy. Not everyone would participate, of course, but I could easily see a half dozen or more taking part and making a serious competition of it.

-Drac

Forced?  Ignored?  I took every single comment you two gave me and turned the ESC into an EPC which both of you ACCEPTED was a reasonable change.

I made the most of what you gave me, and yes, it did fail, but I did attempt to do something to make it work.  And, it was optional to boot, not forced at all.  Of course I would have greatly enjoyed it if the SCs participated or at least encouraged the pilots to look at it, rather than ignoring it near entirely, despite acknowledging that it was an mostly acceptable solution to my face.

Yes, I agree that the NHC is not as active as it could be; which makes me effectively the one who has to coordinate the competitions and gaming for the Navy since Art is rarely around, but the last time I attempted to do anything with productive intentions (the ESC/EPC), it was meet with harsh resistance from the two SCs, not counter-discussion, harsh resistance.  This is a two-way street, and I am open to discussion in future endeavors as long as we can remain civil.

I know I haven't posted much but I have been checking the ComNet and it seems like both Denethor and Riqimo are on a decent bit, at least getting to posts that regard them within 24 hours.

Driver & Doc: Do you guys seriously want to fight, againover something that's over and done with? I didn't bring up the NHC to dig up grudges; I brought it up so we can take an objective look at the past year and see what went right, what went wrong, and what we can do to improve.

This topic's about the future of the VEN, not it's past. Let's focus on what we can do to improve everyone's experience now and later. The past is for learning from, not for repeating.

-Drac

wise words youngling...i won't kill you after all

Shazam: So your vision for the Academy is of a place that mainly consists of guides on a lot of topics, with a staff that focuses on teaching those guides as neccessary, mentoring, and developing new guides and techniques? I could definitely go for that. I've seen that work in a lot of other games, and it has definite possibilities here.

-Drac

Precisely!  Glad to see I didn't get an earful: thank you, Drac, (edit: and Atrasin): we've come a long ways, boys, lol.

I'd also like to mention that roles of our officers may need some refining.  Who's job is it to make sure that people are being promoted accordingly?  The SCs, I would guess, right?  But is there a system or framework that they use to make sure they're doing so in an orderly fashion?  At current, I'm pretty sure it's mostly guestimation, right?  So that's kind of why I jumped on the points system idea, because it would offer the squadron command staff a point of reference: "well, she's fulfilled the minimum requirements for a CPO..."  And maybe they could check that on a weekly basis?  We could put up a chart/wiki-something-or-other that they could use for reference?  Probably at the academy?

Also- I dunno if folks still do this, but I remember that command staff has this interesting tendency to promote only after a major event has concluded (maybe it's a story, competition, whatever).  Not only does that make the promotions predictable, but it strains the system and contributes to those long waits for promotions: we wait until a story is complete to promote people, even though they deserve to have it right now.  That, I think, ought to be changed.  Maybe using that point system, we could check for promotions on a weekly basis and announce them at meetings.  That would draw a crowd, no?  Because, afterall, if you can get promoted at any time, the interest in the meetings becomes, like we said, much greater.

gunnay, not having been around for a while you may not know that that particular process is not working.

what we end up with is concerns and valid points that get swept under the rug. i'm a fan of occasionaly 'calling out' someone. the bright clear light of day won't harm you if you're doing what you should.

all this behind the scenes stuff does is put an outward appearnce of harmony, not actual peace.  if i start a ruckus, i'll stick it out. sometimes it's good to get it out there, you'd be surprised how many people feel the same way you do sometimes.

The issue with the point system is that it requires (at the moment) more work than feasible.  Officers would be forced to work with the points more than their actual normal duties.  Also what happens if one squadron doesn't report in for a week?  Do those points get lost?

And, quite frankly in my opinion, doing the same barely mediocre job over and over shouldn't eventually promote you, even if you get one point per week, and take a whole year to get the points for a promo.

The whole reason of a having a point system is to make promotions unpredictable right? And i'm sure you guys realize it's a ton of work to put everything everyone does to a point value. and on top of that, someone(s) gotta do all the calculations and such, which makes it rather difficult to apply. And like Doc said. what if someone forget to report in, or an SC? then everyone under him/her falls for his mistake? It would be even more work to have to go back and forth, trying to keep things organized.

Where will we start off? 0 points for everyone? random number generator? can't really fairly put a value to all the work each individual has done in his/her career.

Also, the members cannot know the point value for the things they are reporting in for. If they do, then it makes the whole thing pointless, they can easily keep track of the points for themselves, and can easily expect when their next promotion is. In my opinion, point systems are never practical when it comes to keeping things random and unpredictable.