As there appears to be several occurrences lately that I have witnessed that deal with the CoC (Code of Conduct), I figured it be best if there was a little review of what this thing called the CoC is anyways. And if you never seen the CoC before, you better take a peek at that first

And I know I am mostly preaching to the choir here, but this is an important issue. If a new member comes, into the middle of an argument/fight/swearing/etc, it can quite easily discourage their interest in the site especially if they are not entirely certain what is going on.

Quote:Rule 1 - Do not abuse your channel operator status, voice, or X-bot access: Abusing ops and X-bot access consists of kicking, banning or threatening kick/ban without reason or proper cause. Changing the topic and channel modes unnecessarily also is considered abuse. Any member who violates this rule will be punished. The punishment will range between a Class I and Class III Offense pending on the severity of the member's actions.

The issue with this is not Op abuse as much as people accusing ops of op abuse. Essentially, this works in conjunction with other rules here, which will be elaborated upon when I get to those. But yes, there is some Op abuse present and if you do witness it, please do not blabber about it in the main channel as this typically makes matters worse. Resort to PM in those cases.

Quote:Rule 2 - Do not take advantage of a service error or net split: Taking advantage of a Service error or net split is when ChanServ leaves the channel, or a server is split from the Network and the channel is effectively in two places, and members become ops themselves, or op other non ops. Only those who are meant to have channel operator status normally may hold ops in these situations. Any member who violates this rule will be punished. The punishment will range between a Class I and Class III Offense pending on the severity of the member's actions.

If you know what this is, you shouldn’t do it. If you have no clue, just don’t worry about it much.

Quote:Rule 3 - Do not be obscene: Swearing of all kinds is forbidden in the Vast Empire channel. Whether it be swearing in another language (English being the default language for all Vast Empire channels), concealed, implied or suggested swearing. Being obscene also refers to discussing sexual, pornographic, grotesque or generally undesirable subjects in detail. Any member who violates this rule will be punished. The punishment will range between a Class I and Class III Offense pending on the severity of the member's actions.

Swearing is very predominant unfortunately. Yes I admit I am occasionally guilty of it, but I have seen where it makes up at least half of someone’s vocabulary, which does not reflect well on that person’s intelligence. Kadbot (when he is on) will give you three warnings. This however is not three ‘free swear tickets’ that you can use. If you take advantage in some manner, such as with Kadbot’s ‘rule of three’ it is a bannable offense. Any op can kick you for ONE swear if they feel you are taking advantage of it. You have been warned.

Obscene is of course in the eye of the viewer, as what is obscene to one, may not be to another. Odds are if it can be considered obscene in some way, best to take it to PM or another channel.

Quote:Rule 4 - Do not over-use colors: Colors on an IRC channel are considered bad netiquette, however sometimes they are allowed. Constant usage of colors to the annoyance of other members is not tolerated. Any member who violates this rule will be punished. The punishment will range between a Class I and Class II Offense pending on the severity of the member's actions.

Don’t see this much, if at all, but it’s still on there. Kadbot does give you 3 warnings on this as well, but as with swearing, they are not the permission to use it 3 times every day. Abuse of that is a bannable offense. And yes I do it time to time, but I do it in good fun and very, very sparingly.  Granted, the channel modes of the main have been set to strip the color tags from your messages, but if that is ever removed, this rule is still in effect.

Quote:Rule 5 - Do not insult others: Insulting anyone in the Vast Empire channel to the point of it not being taken as a joke is completely intolerable. This includes insulting on race, gender, age, sexual orientation, religious beliefs, creed, etc. Any member who violates this rule will be punished. The punishment will range between a Class I and Class III Offense pending on the severity of the member's actions.

This is sadly too predominate in the channel. And people who attempt to defend themselves are generally charged with this instead of whomever caused the issue.

Quote:Rule 6 - Do not flood: Flooding constitutes as a large amount of text displayed in a short time entered in a channel or in private chat. This is not tolerated in any channel at all. Flooding members in the channel separately with text, pings, or another way is also not tolerated and can result in a first a kick, and eventually a ban from the channel if the flooder persists on disobeying this rule. Any member who violates this rule will be punished. The punishment will range between a Class I and Class II Offense pending on the severity of the member's actions

Self explanatory.
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*Quit Riqimo (Flood Timeout)

Quote:Rule 7 - Do not use clones: Cloning is when another person enters the channel when they are already present having two (or more) copies of themselves on the one channel. This is not tolerated on any VE channel and all clones are to be banned. Caution must be taken when there is a chance a clone could be a ghost. Any member who violates this rule will be punished. The punishment will range between a Class I and Class II Offense pending on the severity of the member's actions.

This is not seen much, and if it is, the only reason I am aware of is for when you are on a computer a good distance away from the one that is still logged in, or you happen to have a dice script loaded on one for a verpg game (which is essentially the only exception I am aware of).

Quote:Rule 8 - Do not impersonate an officer: On IRC, impersonating an officer can be as simple as changing your nick to a rank that you do not hold, changing your nick to another person's known nick or completely changing all IRC information (ident, hostmark, etc.) as well as nick and pretending to be someone they are not. Although the severity is ranging, all are subject to an immediate kick. Any member who violates this rule will be punished. The punishment will range between a Class I and Class III Offense pending on the severity of the member's actions.

Don’t believe I’ve ever seen this (outside of a 5 second joke of “Che5h” before the nick was rechanged), and I sincerely hope it stays that way.

Quote:Rule 9 - Do not annoy people: As different people have different annoyance levels, it is up to the discretion of any present ops or "sub-ops" as to what action is to be taken and when. Someone can be considered annoying when a person or persons are disgusted with the persons behavior, actions or conversation. Any member who violates this rule will be punished. The punishment will range between a Class I and Class II Offense pending on the severity of the member's actions.

For some reason, the people that folks try to annoy seem to be the channel ops. Why the heck you want to annoy the person who can easily kick ban you (or even kline) is beyond me. But nonetheless, op or not, you shouldn’t annoy someone excessively. Maybe one line is fine as a small joke, but beyond that you can be watching your address get the “+b” treatment.

Quote:Rule 10 - Do not be aggressive or argumentative: When talking on the channel, do not in any way confront other members, start arguments or put other members down. All people are there for the enjoyment and the experience of IRC and that is not to be disturbed. If anyone is overly aggressive, report them. Any member who violates this rule will be punished. The punishment will range between a Class I and Class III Offense pending on the severity of the member's actions.

Debates are common, and are perfectly allowed, but not to the point where you are debating for the sake of an argument or attacking the other person and or his/her beliefs. Here’s a piece of advice, don’t ever introduce religion in any manner, even as stating your beliefs, or another’s. It sadly, more often than not, turns into violent missionary crusades. Best way is to just drop it. Politic discussions are common around these days for obvious reasons. But by all means, avoid stereotyping someone based on what they see issues as. Everyone has a different background, and thus has a different view in how they see a politician or issue. If you want to make people see your political views, get off IRC and go volunteer for that cause/person/organization. And for all debates, if you want to be listened to, listen as well. Else you might as well find yourself on the ban list, or on everyone’s ignore list (which is worse in my opinion).

Quote:Rule 11 - Do not openly disobey a superior officer or channel operator: If an op or a superior officer gives an order, kicks a person or sets a ban, they are not to contradicted or argued with in public. If you have a disagreement with the order or action, speak to them in private or consult their superior officers. Any member who violates this rule will be punished. The punishment will range between a Class I and Class III Offense pending on the severity of the member's actions.

Simply put, if you have an issue, PM the person. You should try to remember the following: PIP PIP. Praise In Public, Punish In Private. Of course some of you are probably thinking the higher ups do it in public. This is simply because the violator makes it a public issue in the first place.

Quote:Rule 12 - Do not use unauthorized bots: All bots that are to be used must be cleared by the Head of High Council first. This means sending a copy of the script and any relevant information about the bot. If an unauthorized bot is caught, both the bot and owner will be banned. Any member who violates this rule will be punished. The punishment will range between a Class I and Class III Offense pending on the severity of the member's actions.

Simple enough

Quote:Rule 13 - Do obey a superior officer: If a superior officer gives an order to a junior officer, whether Vast Empire or IRC related, it must be followed. The Vast Empire Command Hierarchy is always in effect on IRC and must be followed. Any member who violates this rule will be punished. The punishment will range between a Class I and Class III Offense pending on the severity of the member's actions.

If you are asked to drop a topic, it is probably a good idea to do so. Usually the discussions that people are asked to drop are actions that are either leading to kick and they are simply giving you a warning, or something that should be considered in PM rather than public chat.

Quote:Rule 14- Do heed an the warnings/requests of a channel operator: If a channel operator or sub-op gives a warning or asks a member to cease an activity, it is to followed immediately. After one warning the member continues to misbehave or break the Code of Conduct, that member may be kicked or banned depending on the offense. Any member who violates this rule will be punished. The punishment will range between a Class I and Class III Offense pending on the severity of the member's actions.

Notice how this relates to Rules 13 and 11? You can probably guess that the channel ops are important with how frequently they come into the CoCs. We don’t throw Ops out to everyone, only those that are considered worthy of wielding them and not abusing the privileges.

Quote:Rule 15 - Do not post pornographic or erotica URL's or advertise obscene channels (i.e. #KiddiePorn) in the channel. Any member who violates this rule will be punished. The punishment will range between a Class I and Class III Offense pending on the severity of the member's actions.

First off, that channel does not exist you sick perverts. Secondly, this site advertised as PG-13, and we essentially do our best to keep it that way. If someone is ruining that image with such things, they can quite easily find themselves with “access denied” the next time they try to connect to the server.

Quote:Rule 16 - Do not be stupid

Everyone believes they have an abundance of common sense. Sadly this is not the case, and we have the occasional person going “Z0MGZZ!!1!11 I GOTZ THE WINNZOR!!!ONE!11!” or similar annoying manner. Just behave like a normal human being (yes, very hard I know), and you should be reasonably secure you are not violating this rule.

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Now there may be some confusion as to what exactly is a kickable offense. Here’s a list of many but not all of the actions that can get you kicked or worse:

• Swearing
• Insulting other members
• Attacks on Race/Gender/Religion/etc
• Excessive use of colors in the main channel
• Flooding
• Annoying anyone past their threshold of annoyance
• Posting links to adult, porn, erotica, illegal, etc sites. Goatse and the like are included in this.
• Encouraging any of the above (if you encourage, you are considered just as guilty as doing it yourself)

Let's all remember that these rules apply up as well as down.  Just because you have ops doesn't mean you're exempt.

If you do have ops you should try and set an example and model the desired behavior.  If your friend is violating the CoC, they should be disciplined as quickly as someone you dislike.

Army and Navy Commanders: it would be refreshing to see you hold your officers to that higher standard and remove ops when they fall short.

This can go a long way towards reversing the downturn in active membership and recruiting.

heh, nice job Doc. i think they should just leave this on the topic part so everyone can this. Hopefully it will work just as welll as what the CoC was made for.

You should take up any issue you have with the person it involves first of all, and as you said that occasionally works. However, in the 'many situations that it doesn't work', it's than advisable to move onto the next person up in the chain. If you believe an op is misbehaving and they refuse to listen, take it up with an AOP. If you believe your SL is misbehaving but wont listen, take it up with your PC. Etc, etc.

What you have to understand is we have a wide range of opinions and reactions here in the VE, and what one person might deem unacceptable is viewed by many others as perfectly reasonable. On the contrary, you taking up an issue with someone via  PM might well make them perceive you as the bad guy. I've had it done to myself, and I believe it cant be avoided. You take an action to resolve an issue, and if it's a good one 9 out of ten people will agree what you did was right. One other will always think you've done something wrong. That one person I'm happy to allow to take up their issue with me, but it's all about how they put it forward to me. If the PM is started with "Wtf is wrong with you?" (It's happened), you've already got my back up, and I'm now far less likely to appreciate your opinion.

Democracy is a pretty word for mob rule. Order must be kept. 

To that end we need a more active up level leadership.  I see many CoC violations...and most are by mods. 

The night shift is the worst.  Just because the sun is down doesn't mean civility is in bed.  Clean up the night shift and most of the problems will end.

And to those who will shout me down for being 'superior'. i'm not, however it's easy to be mistaken for that when you know you're doing wrong. 

I've broken the rules, i've been punished.  I've also been targeted for harrasment and fought back.  I WILL continue to call out those who deem themselves above the CoC and abuse others outside of the realm of good natured ribbing.

For the sake of annoying Rizz and carrying on this delusion of 'democracy', I agree that Night Shift is bad news

But seriously..'Atrassin'...(For the love of god be Gshlecc again, I only just got used to it) has a point. Making one period of time okay to break the CoC, but the other time its not, is asking for trouble. I took up this problem with Rizzit a while back (I use 'took up' loosely). I see no problem with Night Shift as long as everyone involved is happy to be involved. The thing is, it's based in the main and there is a good chance several people are present that wouldn't want it. My prime example is, say a new recruit wanders onto IRC in the middle of the night shift, witnesses CoC violations and decides he doesn't want to be part of the group anymore.

Night Shift is acceptable, but I think it'd be more at home in #Night_Shift as opposed to #Vast_Empire - The wrong message is being spread. What's more, with it's own channel, for Night Shift's fans it could then run 24/7 without problems.

Quote:As Kand said you do not have to take it to THAT PERSON if you think it won't help...take it to their superior or someone that will listen to you. The point is keep it out of public eye.

I should have clarified. I mean't to say that no matter who you take it up with, little changes, but that is a bit of an exaggeration on my part. On the superior thing, I actually have tried to work within the regs from time to time, do you know what happened?

In essence, I got called a tattle, a wuss, etc.. etc... It's not that I have a problem with this, it's just with this behavoior what is the point in trying to work within the regs?

Although to be honest, the person in question was right - I should really take any issues up with him in person, but since I don't agree with doing it in private, I would get penalised if ever I did take it up with this person. So you see the dilemma here?

Whilst I'm in agreement we're all here to have fun, the 'fun' in this place is dictated by a select circle of individuals who, as I said, happened to have been here longer then the rest of us. Now I'm not against giving respect where respect is due, but when there's inactivity, resistence to change, no sense of humour (that one is a joke :P) etc... then it stops being fun.

Being the stubborn person that I am however, I would rather see things change before quitting.

Define serious. If a post which contains more than two paragraphs of text has become 'too serious', things have really gone downhill in this place

You guys take life far, far too seriously.

OOC:

Present evidence of Night Shift being a detriment to the Vast Empire, or just leave it alone. Those who speak against it are those who aren't even around during it. To use terms some of you might understand better: Screenshot or it didn't happen! Night Shift wasn't arbitrarily made by someone who just wanted to break the CoC. It was made by HC members as a relaxed time where people wouldn't have to be bound by position rank and duty. Higher ups need fun time too kiddies.

I know better than anyone here about breaking the CoC. I've seen firsthand the effects my actions had (a la Raiders versus Dragoons 4-5 years ago) on the VE as a whole.

CoC is the CoC. We ALL accepted it upon clicking the "join" button for the VE. If you don't like it / can't abide by it, there's the door. Consider it the dogma passed onto man by the holy prophet Kadann. The VE has been around for 10+ years now with the CoC the way it is. It was here before you all joined, it will be here after you are gone. No one who has spoken here is irreplaceable, (including myself).

Bottom line. You joined an Imperial Role Playing Club.

Imperial.

Not a Republic.

Not a Federation.

Not a Democracy.

Imperial.

If the "VE" really cared about the CoC, then more people would have been banned for repeated violations already.

It's easy for you to say "If you don't like it, there's the door", but that never works in a reality.

You are trying to impose an Imperial style of rule on people who have grown up in democratic societies. Doesn't always work. Some people would rather try and change things before they quit, becuase we are by nature a stubborn race.

The reality is is that places like this exist purely because of an unspoken agreement between the creator(s) and the joiners. We agree to populate their community and to play "by the rules" so long as they agree to keep the service going and to not screw anyone over.

You break that, and you get some un-happy people. But why would we leave? We've seen what's here, we like most of it, we feel like we deserve the right to stick around and to at least try to change things.

If you don't like THAT, then you're going to have to kick any and every malcontents, because we won't stop voicing our opinions.

But then who's going to populate your stories for you?

Ibram Tyrol wrote:If the "VE" really cared about the CoC, then more people would have been banned for repeated violations already.

People have been. Afyon and Rema both had their characters "executed" for CoC violation. I've had one character deleted, and been demoted on several occasions for CoC violations.

Ibram Tyrol wrote:It's easy for you to say "If you don't like it, there's the door", but that never works in a reality.

Actually that has worked, and recently. TK421 was banned from Army channels as punishment. He was told if he didn't accept the punishment he could leave. He accepted it, and reformed his ways.

Ibram Tyrol wrote:You are trying to impose an Imperial style of rule on people who have grown up in democratic societies. Doesn't always work. Some people would rather try and change things before they quit, because we are by nature a stubborn race.

True, but in a democratic society, the majority is the only voice that incites change. So even if this WAS a democracy, your voice is a vast minority and would carry 0 weight.

Ibram Tyrol wrote:The reality is is that places like this exist purely because of an unspoken agreement between the creator(s) and the joiners. We agree to populate their community and to play "by the rules" so long as they agree to keep the service going and to not screw anyone over.

Wow, way off base. Kadann keeps this place running through his own extreme generosity and dedication. Check HERE if you don't believe me. Kadann is not making money off of this site. The adds on Comnet and the like are helping him keep it afloat.

The rules exist not to keep the community populated, but to have some form of order and hierarchy which is needed to keep a club organized and operating. It is not an "unspoken agreement," as when you signed up you clicked that you understood the CoC and agreed to abide by it.

Ibram Tyrol wrote:You break that, and you get some un-happy people. But why would we leave? We've seen what's here, we like most of it, we feel like we deserve the right to stick around and to at least try to change things.

Participating in this club is a privilege, not a right. You've been here less than two years and you believe you know better than Kadann and Talon how to run the club and what bylaws to have/not have?

Ibram Tyrol wrote:If you don't like THAT, then you're going to have to kick any and every malcontents, because we won't stop voicing our opinions.

More like YOU won't stop voicing your opinion. Malcontents can stay or go as they please. Unhappy people are a plague on clubs, because they badmouth this and badmouth that. The club will survive without you and your "opinions" just fine.

Ibram Tyrol wrote:But then who's going to populate your stories for you?

How about the 93 other people in the club who aren't crying about the CoC? Like I said before, other than Kadann, Talon, and Fury who keep the club/activities running, NO ONE IS IRREPLACEABLE.

The whole point is you have the ability to speak your mind; however, what you say and who you say it to has consequences which are governed by the CoC. The CoC is not open for debate. It's the Holy Commandments of the VE. It was developed for specific reasons with the rules necessary to maintain order and structure.

Futhermore, the people in charge are not required to listen to you or value your opinion one iota.

My my, aren't we the chatty bunch all of the sudden? Now, I know I'm not as experienced as most of you and I sure enough haven't been here as long as most of you have, but sometimes fresh insight is good to have. I know you two, Ibram and Angel, have humongous egos that have to compete for space, but heres a thought, cut the crap and deal with each others opinions. You don't have to argue about them. Just accept them and go on with your life. Just because someone else has a differing opinion on a matter and they may seem totally off base to you, I agree that you can argue it, but to a degree. Don't carry on and on about it because that'll just cause more problems than are necessary. I know a few of you will probably get a bit pissed, but I'm just putting this out there before somebody gets a little too out of hand.

I'm just gunna throw this out here, can't resist. As Angel said, the CoC is the CoC and we all agreed to abide by it. I do give Ibram a certain point on his sense of 'freedom of speech' but nowhere here in this Imperical setting are you guaranteed a right to an open forum. If your leadership so desires to tell you to shut up and either talk about it in private or not talk about it at all, it's your duty as a VE member to so.

Lastly, grow up. It's a freaking Star Wars forum. People get so worked up over this and that when long story short it's just pixels on a screen. So what if this or that is 'wrong' or whatever about the CoC? It's an online site, you're not forced into it, and it's nothing to really get worked up over.

Kudos to Riq for taking his time to post this. I think its important to share these rules and discuss them, so that everyone can understand not to make mistakes that can cause them to be penalized or ultimately make their stay here unwortwhile.